Episode 933 - The Value of Open Ended Drills

In this episode, Jeremy and Andrew sit down and discuss the value of open ended drills. That is to say, letting students have a say in what comes next.

The Value of Open Ended Drills - Episode 933

SUMMARY
In this episode, Jeremy and Andrew discuss the value of open-ended training drills in martial arts. They explore how allowing students to contribute to drills and make decisions on the fly enhances their learning experience and fosters ownership and creativity. They also highlight the importance of experimentation and problem-solving in martial arts training. The hosts encourage instructors to provide opportunities for students to contribute and explore open-ended drills, ultimately leading to better understanding and skill development.

TAKEAWAYS
* Open-ended training drills in martial arts allow students to contribute and make decisions on the fly, enhancing their learning experience.
* Allowing students to contribute to drills fosters ownership and creativity.
* Experimentation and problem-solving are important aspects of martial arts training.
* Instructors should provide opportunities for students to explore open-ended drills, leading to better understanding and skill development.

CHAPTERS
00:00 Introduction
02:57 The Learning Experience of Open-Ended Drills
06:10 Martial Arts as a Science Experiment
11:07 The Importance of Experimentation
15:56 Exploring Open-Ended Training Opportunities

After listening to the episode, it would be exciting for us to know your thoughts about it.

✅Subscribe to whistlekick Martial Arts Radio on the following platforms:

🎧Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3mVnZmf
🎧Spotify: https://spoti.fi/3yHVdHQ
🎧Google: https://bit.ly/3kLSpo8

✅You can find whistlekick on all social media platforms using the handle @whistlekick or visit our website at https://www.whistlekick.com or https://www.whistlekickmartialartsradio.com

Show Transcript

Jeremy (00:12.75)

Welcome everybody to another episode of whistle kick martial arts radio and on today's episode Andrew and I are going to talk about the value of Open -ended training drills. What does that mean? You'll have to stick around and find out Of course Andrew Adams joining me here Thanks, buddy. Hey, it's great to be here. We're in this this cool space with this

this fireplace and this plant.

It's a little guy. Needs to be watered, actually. You're pretty tolerant. I'm not a water...water... I know that. You know how I know? Because you didn't water one for a long time. No, that's not my plant. It's my wife's plant. But the fact that it's still alive means it's pretty tolerant. She doesn't water plants? Not really. No. But we're here because of you. Thank you for getting us this space. Absolutely.

And I forgot that was a detour, I didn't even know that we dropped my name. I'm Jeremy Lesniak, I founded Whistlekick because I love everything about traditional martial arts and I believe that even six months of training makes people better versions of themselves. And so I'm on a mission and I've collected a bunch of friends who are involved in that mission like you to get everybody in the world to train for six months. Because I think that's the most...

way to make the world a better place and if you agree with that mission or even just find value in the content that we make or the events that we hold please help us grow please share episodes with people please check out whistlekick .com and please sign up for any of the things that you see floating around the internet related to us that you could sign up for whistlekickmartialartsradio .com is the place to go for transcripts and it's the most convenient place to watch the new episodes so you can check that out there

Jeremy (02:03.034)

I appreciate you joining us on today's episode. All right. Yeah. All right. The value of open ended training drills. Yeah. I know you want me to start this because this was this was well this was your idea. Yeah. So it came out of recognizing, you know, one of the drills that we

have done at events involves, okay, you give me a move, you give me a move, you give me a move. And every time I do something like that, where the students in the class, whether it's a seminar or my own students, are contributing the next piece or a piece, there's a different learning experience than if I say, okay, we're gonna do back fist reverse punch front kick.

If I say back fist, reverse punch, and what should we do next? Some of them will say front kick. Some of them will say something else. Now, if they say front kick, great. Maybe that's what I was going to have them do anyway. It's a pretty effective combination. But what if one of them says hook kick? That's a whole different experience. It completely changes it. And as the instructor in the front of the room,

Yeah, there's something really interesting there in doing a different drill. But here's the important piece. Here's the part that I wanted us to talk about. The fact that the student is making the choice at that moment is a huge aspect, has a huge impact on their training. Why? Because on the fly, they're making a decision.

kind of important as martial artists to be able to make decisions quickly, isn't it? Do I go down there or do I go over there? Do I fight that person or do I not fight, do I fight or run, right? Whatever it is, there are lots of reasons to make quick, decisive decisions. Two, there's always context. Back fist, reverse punch, and then what?

Jeremy (04:20.666)

reverse punch so I'm probably not going to throw back fist reverse punch back kick or I'm probably not going to throw back fist reverse punch jump spinning crescent kick right

By the way, there are people in the audience right now that are thinking, I might be able to do that. And they're gonna try it. And I hope you press pause, and I hope you try it, and I doubly hope that you record it and send it to us. that would be awesome. That would be amazing. So is it back fist, reverse punch, jump spinning, crescent kick? Jump spinning, crescent kick. Love it. I can't wait to see videos. Okay, continue. Actually, you know what? I'm gonna continue. I like it because...

It gives, it makes the student feel ownership. That was the next thing I was going to say. There's a cultural benefit. Most martial arts schools, and we've talked about this, the presentation of information is top -down. It's instructor to student. And if you've spent enough time as an instructor, you know that you also learn a tremendous amount from your students.

What I have come to believe is the most important educational aspect in a typical martial arts class is the student to student. Because when you're sparring, when you're doing drills, when you're doing any of those things. And since we learn by making mistakes, by doing things imperfectly,

Having your students who by definition overall know less than you if you were the instructor make those decisive decisions on what should be done next They're learning something and so is everyone around them It provides variety it makes them feel involved The other thing that I like about it

Jeremy (06:09.37)

and we did an episode on this probably in the eight eighties somewhere good memory i could be wrong but i think it was around there that martial arts is a science experiment and you let's let's use the example we gave a second ago reverse punch or back fist reverse punch

Little Johnny what should we do next and he says jumping spin and Creston kick. All right, let's do it And then after we do to how can you make it work? Well, or It doesn't work from it's like this is really hard Johnny says. All right, Johnny. Do you want to change it? Yeah, let's do a front kick. Okay, that was an experiment He tried we tried to make it work and and again it allows the individual person to figure out on their own how it's gonna work or not

Now if you're someone who has never invited your class to make suggestions, there are some rules that I would throw your way. One, you have to give them the proper context and you have to make sure they know that you maintain veto power and you have to make sure they understand that it is an exception, not the rule. So you don't want your students to think, okay, so we're doing line drills, we're doing basics up and down the floor.

and your students think that they can volunteer what the next technique is at any time.

my students, probably more than most schools, feel comfortable chiming in. But you've made that a culture. But that's part of the culture and they also know I have a very hard line on the veto and sometimes I'll just say, I like your idea but that's not where we're going today. Yeah. And I shut it down and I shut it down gently and they feel heard and it's all good. But there are other times where they make a suggestion and I go...

Jeremy (08:04.922)

That's a really good idea. We should do that sure and I honor that So Where this all came up was was at one of our events actually we've done this All in weekend three different times where we're having students contribute to something But it doesn't have to be that big it could be Okay class. We're doing combinations of three techniques

You give me the first technique, back fist, okay great. What's the second technique? Second person, elbow, great, okay. So maybe we do that a couple times and then because it's three techniques, okay, third person, what's the third technique we're adding onto that? Okay, and now maybe we do 10 on each side or whatever, right? And now all three people feel like they were involved. And it's a little creative, it's a little different. Now what else happens? And this is both good and bad.

person four, five, 12, however many are in the class, start thinking, I hope I get a move where I can add this, I like this technique, or I wanna practice this technique. And it forces them to balance thinking and observing. Which isn't a bad skill to develop. No, not at all. The other risk that you run is, especially if you're in a larger class,

that 12 or 13 person, you don't get to them. And they feel left out. So you might have to say, you know,

everybody remember where they're lining up next class we're gonna do the other task. Sure. I mean there are ways to work around that but that can happen. But that is absolutely important if you are going to allow contribution you need to make sure there's an opportunity for everyone to contribute. Yeah absolutely. That was the first thing I thought of and the schools that I have trained in have all been typically smaller so it would be a lot easier to make sure everyone's involved but if you have a class of you know and there are schools out there that will have classes of 40 people yeah maybe that's not the right

Jeremy (10:11.42)

class to do this type of thing in? Maybe, maybe it is. Figure it out. If we take a little bit of a step out from the specifics of allowing some open space in a drill for students to contribute, and maybe they're contributing just to themselves, right? Maybe it's back fist reverse punch, everybody add on their own third technique, right? That could be a way you can manage. That was going to be the next thing that I was going to talk about, which was. Well, then let's talk about that now. Yeah, OK, so.

We in schools that I've trained in have often said, the instructor will say, okay, so here's the attack is coming in, you do this, you do this, and then you take them down and you do whatever you want. Finish it however you want, whether maybe it's a finishing strike or maybe it's a joint lock, but you are open to do whatever you want to do.

And then again leads to that experimentation a little bit. Like I will, okay, it's my turn, here comes the attack, I'll do the things, I'll take them down. All right, let me try this lock. No, you know what? That...

All right, try again, stand up, let me try again. So do the technique, take him down. I can go into this. So it gives me that ownership of it and lets me experiment on my own. And that experimentation, if you missed that episode, we know is so critically important because it helps you understand better what works and what doesn't. If you've had kids, at some point, you've probably had something where you've told the child, I need you to figure this out for yourself. Why? Not because you're being mean.

But because you know if they find the answer on their own they will better remember and better embody it whatever it is for life I Find it fascinating that we don't remember that in a lot of martial arts schools that it is we make the effort strictly of top -down When students are allowed to find the answer Sometimes themselves they better understand that answer. Yeah, absolutely

Jeremy (12:15.45)

And we've seen this a bit, just to, I'm gonna twist it a little bit, at the various events that we've done, for example, the free training days, Marshall Summit, we've had plenty of people who have not had opportunity, let's say, to present a seminar. Maybe they're a senior student at their school, maybe they don't even have a school. So they're not used to teaching a lot. But we give them the opportunity.

to present on pretty much whatever they want. There's the open -ended component and we've seen a few people who have absolutely flourished. Absolutely. I bet, you know, we're not going to name names, but we're, I'm sure we're thinking of the same people right now. Yep. Yep. And why did that offer, why were they able to flourish? Because we didn't say you're going to go in and do a class on this because that's, they would, they would do fine with that.

because that's where they were at in their martial arts career. It was time for them to start for the guard rails to move out a little bit. And that was uncomfortable. The two people I'm thinking of specifically. They did a great job. Absolutely. Because they felt supported. They knew we weren't going to let them fail, even though they, you know, there might've been a voice in the back of their head saying, you're going to fail. Andrew and Jeremy are setting you up for failure.

But once they did it a couple times, they went, okay, this is a skill set I didn't realize I had. And that, you know, in that context, we're kind of their instructors, and this is something that we saw. And so my hope, I think I could say our hope for all of you out there, if you have a school or you have say over the curriculum or how a class is going to run,

is that you'll look for those opportunities where students can, maybe you take them 90, 95 % of the way there and you let them get that last bit themselves because they're going to get so much better, so much faster. You're still getting the credit. You can still keep them safe. Remember, I'm not talking about you take them 5 % and let them hang out at the rest. But if you're a student and maybe you don't have say, maybe you're a middle rank or an early rank.

Jeremy (14:27.898)

Maybe you share this episode with your instructor or maybe you say, hey, you know what? I was listening to these these bald guys and they were talking about how much value they find with their students in letting students come up with the third technique in a combination, you know, give them a really concrete example. Is that something we could try? I'm interested to see how that goes. Yeah. And certainly not all.

But I think most instructors would say, you know, we do that when we do this. Or what I think a lot of instructors would say is, you know, we haven't done that in a while. Most schools that I've been part of have done this sort of thing in some way. They just don't think to do it often because it takes more work. When you're in the front of the room managing this, it's more work than everyone's gonna do A, B, C. Yeah, I think it's great. Give it a try. Yeah.

Here's what I'm looking for for feedback from all of you. In what ways, other than the specifics we've given you, can students have the opportunity to work in an open -ended way? Not like sparring where it's all open -ended, but you get them zero to somewhere and they finish it. Maybe we can, hopefully, we can learn something and come up with some drills that we can use.

with students or with some of you at free training day or whatever else. I'm excited to see videos of back fist, reverse punch, jump spinning. I already figured out how to do it. I mean, I'll tell you. I'll tell you after. OK, great. We had more room. I'd show you. There's a hallway. OK, we'll go in the hallway. Maybe we'll tack that on at the end. Maybe you'll have to watch. You'll have to watch at the end. Maybe Jeremy's kicking in shorts in the hallway.

Thank you everyone, we appreciate you. If you've got topic ideas we want to hear, we want your feedback, we want your contributions. This is your opportunity for the open -ended. We show up, we do the show, it's about martial arts, we put plenty of topics on the table, but you are always welcome to make a topic or a guest suggestion. You can reach out to us via social media at Whistlekick, via the Facebook group page. Eventually I'll remember, the Facebook page, not the group, martial arts radio, or our email address is jeremy at whistelkick .com, andrew at whistelkick .com.

Jeremy (16:53.754)

Thank you for joining us. Thank you for your continued support. We appreciate each and every one of you. Until next time, train hard, smile, and have a great day.

Jeremy (17:07.546)

Aright!