Episode 46 - Mr. Chris Sutton
Mr. Chris Sutton - Episode 46
Reevaluate everything that you're doing to add value to yourself, to your family, to your bottom line. If it's working, keep doing it. If it's not, adjust it.
Chris Sutton
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Today we're joined by Mr. Chris Sutton. With a broad and varied resume, Mr. Sutton is not the typical guest to Martial Arts Radio. But before you doubt his martial arts credibility, he holds a number of accolades, including being the last person to receive a black belt from Joe Lewis. Mr. Sutton has, like some of our other guests, extracted the self-defense aspects of his martial arts training and not only refined it, but developed it into a system all it's own. He tells some powerful stories and really opens up. You're going to like this one.
Today's featured product is the whistlekick Original Sparring Boot, which uses better materials and design to increase comfort and durability, all without that annoying toe strap.
Show Notes
COBRA Self Defense on YouTube, FacebookChris Sutton's Martial Arts & Fitness Inc.Self Defense Training for Realtors Become A Certified COBRA Instructor Take The COBRA Academy Student Version On -Line
Show Transcript
You can read the transcript below or download here.Jeremy Lesniak:Hey there everyone it's episode 46 of whistlekick martial arts radio, the only place to hear the best stories from the best martial artists like today's guest Mr. Chris Sutton. I'm the founder here at whistlekick but here on the show I'm your host Jeremy Lesniak. Whistlekick in case you didn't know makes the world's best sparring gear and some great apparel and accessories all of it for traditional martial artists. I'd like to welcome our new listeners and thank all of you returning fans, if you're not familiar with our products you should check out everything we offer like the whistlekick original sparring boots we make these with a softer but more durable foam which means they're more comfortable to wear and much longer lasting and you know that annoying toe strap under your boots? We got rid of it completely, you can learn more about our sparring boots and all of our other gear and apparel at whistlekick.com. All of our past show episodes all the show notes and a whole bunch more are at whistlekickmartialartsradio.com and while you're on our website, why don't you sign up for our newsletter we offer exclusive content to subscribers and it's the only place to find out about upcoming guests. Now let's move on to the episode. On episode 46 we're joined by Mr. Chris Sutton, with a broad and varied resume Mr. Sutton is not the typical guest at martial arts radio but before you doubt his martial arts credibility he holds a number of accoladed including being the last person to receive a black belt from Joe Lewis. Mr. Sutton has like some of our other guests extract the self-defense aspects of his martial arts training and not only refined it but developed it into a system all its own. He tells some powerful stories and really opens up, you're going to like this one. Mr. Sutton welcome to whistlekickmartialartsradio.Chris Sutton:Thank you, Jeremy, for having me.Jeremy Lesniak:It's a pleasure to have you here and of course you were suggested to us by a recent podcast guest Mr. John Graden and I guess you know him pretty well and I think we're gonna hear a bit about that today?Chris Sutton:Absolutely.Jeremy Lesniak:Okay awesome, well before we get there, let's go way back how did you get started in the martial arts?Chris Sutton:Well I would like to there's a story I always tell and it was one decision I was about 6 years old, 5-6 years old mid 80s and I had a friend his name is Anthony and you know to preface this my mom was young you know she was 14 when she had me so if that tells you anything I grew up quick so I'm about 5-6 years old and Anthony he comes over you know we're living in this apartment complex and he says hey I'm gonna I'm signing up for a little league baseball all you need is $25 for the registration fee and my mom will take you up there and will take you to practices and so I ran inside and I asked my mom for $25 on the spot and I mean single mom broke I heard the words that started it all baby I don't have $25. So I watched Anthony drive off with his mom and from that point on I realized well I'm not gonna be playing baseball so I was at the Rec Center and the local Rec Center in Largo and I saw a sign that said martial art lesson $11 a week, so I did everything I could to earn $11 everything I could you know can I do this, can I do that, can I03:37 whatever it was a 6 and 7 year old can do and I got $11 a week to pay for my first martial art lessons in Largo Florida in a rec center and my mom would move a lot and we so I would move schools, I would find a school to go to and she kinda use it as a baby sitting 03:58 would be dropped off hours before class started picked up hours after class and the you know you're sitting down in a curb waiting for your mom 04:04 and I did every class I could while I was there I mean if I was allowed to do the adult class in the back of to the side I would do the kids class and I you know Jeremy I'm listed on every single art there was I mean if there was a school close enough to walk to or to get us there I did it, I didn't look at the title I didn't care what it was we were in karate uniforms or whatever it was I was there you know and then I even one of my first experiences with a dominant instructor you know the mainstream instructor was a little show you know even when I couldn't go to a school there was a show on in Largo Florida called USA karate and the host was John Graden and I was taking lessons with John Graden you know on his show USA karate I was doing it in the living room and whatever he was showing and so that was my first introduction to John, he's actually one of my first instructors he didn't know it of course at the time because he's hosting a show and I’m some poor kid in Largo Florida scrapping for any book any school any show just to be involved in this thing I love called the martial arts.Jeremy Lesniak:Wow and that's great and I can totally see you know 6-year-old you back there of in the side of the class you know mimicking what the adults are doing but the thing that's really coming out for me is that's a level of dedication you know at that age having the drive to earn money to pay for your own lessons I mean that's something that's very few kids are gonna be able to do. You said you grew up fast but even that seems really fast so what was it about martial arts that you got so hooked on so young?Chris Sutton:Well you know competitive personality the fact that there is no seasons, it's not a sport you never sit at the bench it never goes away and it's all about you, I mean if your best kick is 2 foot off the ground that's your absolute best and you're always working on that someone might kick oh you know over their head and can hold up there for an hour you know like Jean Claude Van Damme but that's his best and it was just that ever you know refining of you as an individual and it matched my propensity as an athlete I was you know I found out that I had I was blessed as an athlete I excelled in you know high school and college as a professional in a police department I ran professionally on an international national level, and those to me were just perfect you know martial arts you're gaining your flexibility you're building discipline which you need as an athlete to go through these camps to losing get a backup to win and not lean with your ego it so it just the perfect marriage.Jeremy Lesniak:That sounds great and really seems like you had quite the vision and the ability to look forward at a young age and I'm sure that's contributed a lot to your success both in and out of martial arts and I'm sure we'll get into quite a bit of that as we go on but now it's time for a story. I'd like you to tell us your best martial arts story.Chris Sutton:Well I have 2 of them 2 notable memories stick out and they are more recent I mean I did martial arts to a point where I thought that's I mean that's I knew it just inside like you know your own thoughts and out of all that growing up as a professional becoming a law enforcement officer and then becoming an adult and you have all these training decades but you know you're like very one else you know you've been training since you could walk what really stuck out to me 2 of them one is being at AT&T stadium, home of the Dallas cowboys not because I was in a 08:12 stadium I’ve been there before but I was on the field in the end zone speaking to other martial artists John Graden was there the guy I started learning you know martial arts with decades ago and the most important aspect to that was I was in a demonstration with my son and my son you know there's a one of my favorite pictures in the whole world, I'm doing an anti-abduction technique in the end zone with all of these martial arts instructors and all you know all the public around and the referees 08:45 for national martial arts day and the only thing I really cared about was that my wife was there my kids were there and I'm working in what I love you know all these years later in a huge forum you know on a huge platform and we're working together my son was doing what we call low anchor where he grabs my leg so he can't be abducted and he does some role playing with his back pack and we do some bully prevention stuff and the look in his eyes in these pictures when I look back I'm like this was the biggest thing in the world to him and so it was the biggest thing in the world to me at the time and it still is it really sticks out it's the first real time that I worked with my son cause I could see me in him wow you know I love the martial arts and I can see that in him and I just remember it and number 2 you know I’ve been through a lot as far as my training you know I met Jim Graden in the late 90s, you know became a black belt under him and then I started training with a guy named Joe Lewis you know anyone in martial arts knows that legend and Joe took me under his wing almost like a father and he just like a great human being and I wasn't in any and I would train with Joe we'd come to the school he'd give seminars I'd see him all the time cause that was that family you know the John and the Jim and the Joe Lewis all those guys and I wasn't in a big hurry to get in you know get another black belt you know I just that hunger went away and a lot of guys can relate you get a black belt you get another one you know that hunger goes away and then you're a business man and you're just kinda on autopilot. Well something just snapped in me where I wanted to get my Joe Lewis fighting systems black belt you know Joe was diagnosed with Cancer and so to me it was now or never and we had scheduled it numerous times but one time I had knee surgery and then there was always something. So the test date was scheduled it was in Philadelphia, I went to Philadelphia I did the rocky steps mean the whole 10:52 I was running the steps for 10:53 and all that good stuff and you know I went down to the statue took some pictures and you know the next day was test day and so I took my Joe Lewis black belt exam got my black belt and it was later brought to my attention how significant that was I was the last person to ever test for a black belt throw a punch throw a kick receive rank while Joe Lewis was still alive. He showed up to the test you know he came out of the hospital after his you know 30 or 40 days just to come to that test I was the last round and I wasn't up against another person testing for a rank I was up against another Joe Lewis black belt that was just my opponent so I would literally it was brought to my attention that that was it I was the last black belt while he was alive and you know it's kind of an unfortunate honor, you know you didn't wanna lose him cause he had passed away a couple months later but that will always stick out to me I took all the equipment that I used all my gloves in that fight and I retired them for my son I want him to have them have that stuff when he gets older so I found it significant and kind of an honor to be the last guy to ever have test while that legend was alive.Jeremy Lesniak:Wow and that's such a huge honor and you know listening it sounds like there's a little bit of emotion coming into your voice and of course we’ve had a number of people on the show that knew Joe Lewis well of course the first one was Bill Wallace who you know absolute best friends with Joe Lewis and I’ve heard him speak of him several times and just loves him dearly and of course recently we've had Rob Buckland on who just the same way I have listened to Sensei Buckland talk about Joe Lewis with others and watch a very large a very intimidating experienced martial artists get teared up I mean Joe Lewis was certainly a man that meant a lot to a lot of people and you're no exception to that, so thank you for sharing that.Chris Sutton:Yeah, he just he you know he had such a presence and he didn't act like it and now that combination was amazing he could you know this is the one guy that could teach you a jab for a week straight and you're on the edge of your seat when you know some other instructors you know they wanna teach you a jump spinning back kick and you wanna fall asleep. He was just so dynamic in his background and you talk you're working with a living legend who was instructed by a guy named Bruce Lee you know among other people and he just his presence was so intense but he was just so down to earth I mean he just treated you like you know you're he's known you forever and you just don't ever forget that guy.Jeremy Lesniak:Did he offer you any advice any words of wisdom that you could pass on to us?Chris Sutton:If you can't jab you can't fight.Jeremy Lesniak:OkayChris Sutton:You know there's something that I hold dear to myself that I don't too many people I think I’ve told you know one or 2 people I know I told John but leading up to the year that he was diagnosed Joe would call me out of the blue I mean we had each other's cellphone and he would just talk he would just talk about if you talk about whether he would talk about these schools that you know local time cause I believe he's living in North Carolina at the time I'm not quite sure exactly where he was but we and I'm thinking why is Joe calling me and talking to me about just random stuff and so I just those are stories you know where you know that's I will always have that and it's just he would call and he would just talk and but as far as advice you know everything he ever said in my opinion was advice the way he walked the way he carried himself the way he stood you know the way he trained I mean you know I remember when he was going there was separation I believe in you know he was down in Jim Graden's school and the man trained himself in you know he's 50 something years old at the time almost 60 and he looks better than most guys in their 30s and he if you could just watch him train when he doesn't you know it wasn't a crowd of people he just would be in a corner just destroying a bag and moving he never stopped moving and he wasn't training for a fight he was training for him and it was just you know he's just an amazing guy to be around and when he speaks you listen and I guess you take it for granted that you get to be around him for so long and hear everything that comes out of his mouth and you don't you lock on to one specific thing but everything he said 15:43 these you know that's amazing you know so from his teaching to his ethics to just you know being in a room with him, everything was good advice from Joe.Jeremy Lesniak:Listening to you talk about Joe Lewis I'm finding myself a little jealous you know I’ve gotten to talk to a lot of great people and then you know there are a lot greater people that we'll get to talk to and because of the opportunities with whistlekick I'm getting to train with some of these great people but I’ll never get to train with him.Chris Sutton:And you know Jeremy there's one defining moment about his black belts and the guys that he lead when we went to his funeral you know it's there's pictures there's this I mean this common knowledge amongst the guys that were there they were about to back a truck up and just dump dirt on his grave and we actually I remember Bryan Gates a couple 16:41 all these guys we actually told the guy to stop and imagine 40 guys in suits you know Jim Graden all these guys and we were passing everyone did 3 or 4 shovels and then pass it to the next guys so we literally buried him 16:58 there's a line of guys and we took the shovels and we buried Joe cause we didn't want that truck to do it that was just, that's he's a legend he deserved more than that as his guys did it for him. So that's you know from start to finish that's a very defining moment in my martial arts career.Jeremy Lesniak:Wow that's beautiful and certainly the best way I can imagine for all of you to send him off, so that's great and thank you for sharing that I mean those are pretty deep personal memories and I hope they're okay for the podcast I mean they are very personal.Chris Sutton:Yeah of course no they are and the best stories we have on here are the personal once because we're as an audience trying to connect with you as a martial artist so this great deep stuff that you're sharing absolutely wonderful. So, let's switch around a little bit now and I'd like you to imagine what your life might have been like without the martial arts.Jeremy Lesniak:That's very interesting.Tell us.Chris Sutton:Well you know I believe I would've pursued my athletic career a lot longer because just like every other guy that's in the martial arts long enough you decide you're going to business and you and then you realize well anyone can open the business it's all about staying in business. So, if I was never in the martial arts I believe that I would've still developed a self-defense company which I have Cobra Defense Program I was I’ve written numerous books I’ve probably you know a very I have a creative knack I like to create and develop and teach. I might have stayed in law enforcement longer I believe you know or 18:51 in the military. What really grounded me so I could not you know go in the military cause that's where I was headed was all the offers I had for playing sports and that kept me local and then staying local I joined law enforcement cause it's the next best thing `to being in the military and you know I had the propensity to serve I wanted to serve I wanted to be in the quasi-military organization and 19:19 that I ever got a chance to do that and that experience was second to none and some of the best and some of the hardest times was when I was a deputy so you know to answer your question completely I just think I'd be serving in a military organization or still in law enforcement, writing books and you know ultimately I don't know if I could've created cobra without my martial art background, martial arts alone could not have created this program because I always tell guys you know self-defense is not martial arts and I explained it like this you know do you like spaghetti an Italian food? Yes, do you like pancakes, yes they don't go on the table at the same time but they are all they are under the classification of food, okay so they are a food but they are served at a different time for a reason it confuses the senses so I’ve been on a mission to separate those for clarity in the industry cause clarity breeds good business so but having that martial art background and fusing with my law enforcement training and feel the experience is the only way I think I could've created that program cause you just can't think it up so I don't think cobra would ever been developed you know and we're in 23 countries worldwide and we reach a lot of people and we make it a safer world you know but I think I needed the martial art back ground too you just cause there's a lot of police officers out there and they would need that tactical background that you get in the arts as well so it's a great question that one threw me for a little but I can't think I could not envision doing my 21:09 raising my kids writing books you know being an athlete and going to work and outside of the martial arts I'd love being in law enforcement.Jeremy Lesniak:Well normally I ask that question a little bit differently the question is how did the martial arts changed you but of course you got into the arts at such a young age and actually most of our guests have that this is kind of the fall back question where would you be without it? And I'm curious you mentioned your athletics through high school and college a few times just out of curiosity what sports did you play?Chris Sutton:Well I ran track I played football I wrestled a couple of season I played basketball, never and this is the ironic thing if you go back to the initial story I never have ever played baseball I have never swung at a baseball I don't care for the game and I think it was that initial hey you don't have $25 to pay the registration and seeing that kid drive off waving and then you just you know you turned to the martial arts so I ended up so that you know going until I was about 29 years old I was a collegiate you know I’ve trained in track and field football I always had a season I was always playing sports so when I got out of college and I joined the police department they had a law enforcement league for track and field and you know for every gold medal you or every silver medal you won there was an incentive you know certain amount of hours off or certain amount of you know personal time off or 8 hrs. of pay but you know you would train and you would compete nationally and internationally and then you're racing against Russians and you know the Chinese and they're all law enforcement you know they qualify in all these good stuff so I trained until I was about 29 years old and then I was out jogging one day preparing for an event and my left knee the spandex that were on it got really tight and I wasn't sure what was going on I wasn't in pain but basically the cartilage in that knee was depleted so I had to have surgery and then the right one I had to have surgery a year later and I you know all my years in the martial arts I never suffered an injury an acute injury from the martial arts I contribute most of my injuries that I’ve had to the long jump, there's nothing healthy about sprinting 80-85 feet and jumping into a sand pit as far as you can over and over and then running a hundred and doing the hurdles and running the 400 you know your body takes beating and you know I started running track at a very young age and I didn't even you know I always tell people it's the one sport I just hated running no one likes to you know take their body and use it every muscle in their body for an extended amount of time and it's not a team sport necessarily and it's just it's grueling but I found out that was something I was good at and so I'd let it take me as far as I could and like I said the martial arts helped me stay disciplined every season you know I playing football started I was a quarterback started at running back played quarter back and I was kind of a you know put me anywhere type of guy and so you know the sports and the martial arts perfect marriage and kept me going for as long as I could but once I hung up my cleats and could no longer play sports the one thing I could keep going is the martial arts and keep moving forward.Jeremy Lesniak:Yeah that's great and you know going back a couple minutes so the question maybe shouldn't have been what would you have done without martial arts it should've been what would you have done if you're mother had had $25 for those baseball lessons there's the pivotal moment 25:08 right there.Chris Sutton:Yeah that's a defining moment 25:11 I’ll never forget.Jeremy Lesniak:It's pretty incredible. So, we’ve talked about some high points some great stuff that's going on through your life, I'd like us to go the other direction now think about something on the other end of the spectrum something a little less than rosy and how your time and your experience in the martial arts helped you move through it.Chris Sutton:I got the perfect example and you know when I went into law enforcement and there was when I got out of the academy there was a special division I was assigned to maximum security and special operations in the Pinellas county jail and I was still in my brown uniform I call them Dickies you know you're a rookie and I was selected to a unit it was that Pinellas county boot camp and what this was the you had criminals assigned to you and your job was that of a drill instructor in a law enforcement capacity which means we're gonna you know do drilling ceremony we're gonna do all you know gonna have intake day these guys are assigned to us for a complete year and the guys that were assigned to you are guys they had to have 5 high priority felons. These juveniles are not juveniles they're not little 8-year old’s we're talking about 6'2", 300lbs, they're 17 years old the core camp, they can't assign them as like an adult because they're not 18 so where do they send them? The boot camp and their felons have to be vicious violent crimes I mean robbery, animal abuse, sexual battery, car theft, so these are what we got these are the guys that we were in charge of on a day in and day out basis so to create the instructor of the staff members to deal with these guys you had to become a drill instructor and they what they did the Pinellas county 27:14 department is they took the Parris Island format, Parris Island for all you know 27:21 the marines they go through their the boot camp and they adopted the format they sent all the lieutenants and sergeants up there to get all the training and the format and how you teach so going through this drill instructor academy was the hardest the single hardest thing I’ve ever accomplished and I got I had black belts like every other guy I’ve been to college I’ve done all that you know my dad you know all that's difficult but this was insane, you're talking learning to become a drill instructor not getting yelled at to become a soldier you had to be that guy and there was hazing there was internal bullying day one on the tarmac we had 16 guys by the end of the day we had 8, they all quit. There were 4 slots available and we were all fighting for it, the by the end of 3 days there were 5 guys left, by the end of a week, there were 4 guys left. The other 3 guys were former marines I was not I was just in law enforcement so these guys had been in the military, they I mean and so the drill instructors that were coming out 28:36 they were intense you know you had to learn the position of attention, dress where I dress 28:43 and you know you had to learn it verbatim and you know and some of these positions were tight were you know 2 paragraphs long you know they're throwing chairs pass you get all these stuff and it was just intense and you had to do it in a period of 3 weeks you had to you know pass the course, so they only had 3 slots there's 4 bus those 3 were marines and so I'm thinking you know what do I keep doing this do I keep you know do I put myself through this against these guys that were already marines that just doesn't look good and then I thought you know what are you actually thinking about quitting are you taking yourself down 29:27 what is wrong with you and I immediately cause I had never quit anything ever and so to me it was a new feeling like I didn't know what that was you know and I went back to the you know there was no martial art test that I ever took no black belt test no punch that was ever landed on me that I felt wow you know and I quit so as a full grown adult being assigned in a special division against guys that you know at the end of the day when we got down to who was left out of the initial 16, I was going against experience guys from the marine corps and I was trying to be the marine corps drill instructor in a law enforcement capacity oh that was daunting and so it was kind of me against them and what they you know what I did is after we were dismissed at every day at 5 o clock I would stay out on the tarmac and learn my drilling ceremony that was what I was having a hard time with you know left right all that good stuff you know how to 30:28 and you know all my folds you know how to properly all my creases everything and you know I stayed up there and my brother was in the military he came out and he assisted me and I would stay out for 2 extra hours a day and in the pictures on graduation you can see my face is sunburnt my lip is busted from the sun because I stayed out late I showed up early I never quit no and I ran the obstacle course in record time I can attribute that to you know my athletic background that was something I could do well and at the end of the day when we got word of who made it they literally opened up a new spot for me. So they created a slot you know for the guy that didn't quit and I tell that story because you can be as tough as you wanna be I mean you can have all the trophies on your wall all the belts all the success and glory you will be tested one, you will be tested I mean you don't know when that time is and it didn't happen while I was young but that was it I mean I wanted to be in that division I was assigned to it they believed in me and they see all these people quitting and to still keep going almost blindly we just you know I'm just not gonna quit you guys can say and do whatever you want you know and all the hazing you know putting you know pepper spray in your boots or on you know in shirt all that stuff I just never quit and so they created a slot I worked for 2 and a half years as a boot camp drill instructor until being reassigned to maximum security and then where you're in there with the adult inmates and then from there I want to patrol operations as a street cop and I don't think that that's not that career isn't for everyone you know my one of my first calls Jeremy was shooting as it was an active shooter situation where you know it just happened I walked in you know the call went like this 365 copy call 365 go shots fired and then they rattle off the address when we show up you know I'm a rookie it's like my third call you know we kicked the door open there's still smoke in the air dead body on the ground with blood running from her or something out of a movie a girl crying and screaming in the corner I see a weapon on the ground that broke when it hit the ground and I had to go to the house and look for other suspects and then your FTO your Field Training Officer the guy that's assigned to you while you're still in observation is just he's sitting there chewing on his toothpick and he looks at me and he goes what do you got? Just co I mean cool as ice he just standing there like what do you got you know like what happened Chris, you know so they're looking at you saying do you have a murder do you have a suicide you know is the killer still here or you know why what do you got? And then you have to set up a crime scene all these stuff so to see that level of violence to deal with the challenges on a daily basis as a cop and to try to stay healthy mentally and physically was a challenge and if I wasn't if I didn't have a foundation of almost daily training never quitting all y always working hard and trying to achieve I you know I would've like a lot of guys and just washed out you know for every 10 cops I hire I think it's like only one makes it after his first year they wash out with the nerves they do something wrong you know they don't act fast enough or they just can't take it you know. One of the classes they give you in the academy they sent you all in a room and they show you about an hour's worth of police officers getting killed the stuff you don't see on TV and then you're watching these videos and the guy's screaming for his life and this guy’s standing over him shooting him and they tell you the back story, yeah this is Sergeant so and so he's got 5 kids he was on his last call of the night you know and you just like oh and you'll see guys get you know we had like 4 guys get up and leave that room never to be seen again. They're like this isn't it I'm not gonna get killed for $50,000 a year from some crack head so you have to have mental toughness the why I'm saying this is it doesn't matter if you're you know a brain surgeon or a psychologist there's things in your career there's things in your life there's things in your relationship that will test you either all at once or a little bit of the time you know dying by it a thousand cuts instead of one big one and I’ve you know I can attribute a lot of the martial arts as kind of like a bullet proof vest you know a lot of stuff just bounces off or doesn't penetrate because you have that mental toughness you have that ability to go out and train and release toxins and keep yourself in shape and not be that 300lb officer with a heart problem who dies 2 years after he retires because he didn't take care of himself so it's a huge foundation to have it sets in motion all these positive habits, constantly training working on your flexibility, being positive mentally knowing that you can start as a white belt which is kind of a nobody and go all the way up into owning a school go all the way up to having a global company whatever it is. So, the foundation is so important.Jeremy Lesniak:It's great and thank you for taking us into what it was like with that training with that law enforcement experience I mean I had to mute the microphone a couple times hopefully I got it before you heard it you know just from some of my reactions I mean you know imagining you walking into that house that third call and just heavy heavy stuff, so again thank you for sharing all of that with us.Chris Sutton:Oh you also see Jeremy things you know you get this in it lead to my separation of what is real and what isn't you know I never once in my law enforcement career did a kata I just I never while I was working in the jail and you know I'm like I'm not I can't throw a round kick to this guy's head I mean it there is just so many principles that did not crossover and that's one of the benefits because you can do it in a controlled environment and it's all theory based you know that it's great but then you actually go out and apply it day in and day in and day out you know use of force after use of force, aggressive situation after aggressive situation and then your mind starts to differentiate what can I all that training I can only use this in this situation and 70% is irrelevant which really really helped because you can't start a self-defense company that is legitimate with tactics and business but based off of nothing does that make sense.Jeremy Lesniak:It does.Chris Sutton:So if I hit a bag and I’ve learned this and it's all well if I do this and then he does that this should work you know when you take someone that's done the martial arts for decades and then you put them in a career where they're constantly having to use physical violence on someone that's their job description whether I chase the guy for half a mile tackle them and he fought me and fought me and fought me you realize that tapping out doesn't come into play, kata don't cut in all that and always you know asking a million police officers or a million guys in the military that have seen action ask any of them if they ever tried to tap someone out or got tapped out. That has nothing to do with Brazilian jujitsu, that has everything to do with the separation of self-defense and every other do kwan itsu cause the monster you're dealing within reality is not a trained BJJ guy or UFC guy they wanna take your freaking head off they wanna hurt you bad so when I cracked in you know to licensing cobra self-defense, you know I'm in a room full of professionals that have owned schools for 10, 15, 20 years done this like everyone else and when they hear that it rings true to them like yeah there is no tapping out in real life you know and then we define what reality is and it helps them in business cause they have clarity that and I tell one of the last articles I wrote I you know I blatantly put in there if you're teaching self-defense and you know let's say you've been in the martial arts 25 year if you're teaching true self defense and your student is at Walmart tonight and they're attacked ironically they're gonna have more experience in real life in their first 10 seconds of that fight than you do and I said that's not good you know so we tell guys that you have to plug in to a resource or be the resource so you either have to have that background or plug directly into that background in order to teach it to you know a public that doesn't know any difference. The public doesn't know anything until you teach them in this industry you know I can't tell you how many times I'm standing a line at Starbucks and I'm wearing a cobra self-defense shirt and you know someone might make kung Fu hands at me and say whooah Taekwondo I know someone that does Taekwondo they just don't know the difference you know. So until we teach them and I think what I'm trying to get at is I’ve taken great pride in trying to bring clarity to an industry you know when you talk to a guy that can kick a grape off of your head without touching your head then you ask them you know what is the secret formula that every criminal owns, every criminal in the world what is the secret 3 part formula that defines self-defense and when that black belt that can kick that grape off your head cannot tell you that you that's that division you know you're great at what you do but self-defense is a different anomaly and that 3 part formula is time, place and method they control that. So being the authority on that you try to empower the guys around the world to make this world a safer place by bringing clarity not only to the industry but to the public.Jeremy Lesniak:Wow good absolutely great stuff and we've had this conversation on this show a number of times maybe not well certainly not with the depth that you've brought to it today but the difference between martial arts and you're terming self-defense what I generally refer to as martial combat you know the combat and the art are two very distinct and different things and it's great that your mission is to educate the public and to educate people and to give them those real world skills that so many people need.Chris Sutton:Well you know Jeremy one of the big things I tell guys you can't get offended don't get your feelings hurt I mean there's I'm not a point Taekwondo guy you know if I get into the ring with someone that's a point sparring specialist I'm probably going to last a you know about 20 seconds or as long as I can ran around the ring and lose this guy I don't wanna get on the floor with some BJJ guy and put him in 41:52 or some fancy arm bar and make it that's not what we do, you know so and the industry is lead with guys that are in competition with their almost religion like that's don't say anything bad about it, well it's not saying anything bad that's just you got to know where to place it and you know what I ask guys when I talk to them when we talk to guys all over the world and I ask them you know one defining question and then I make one statement and that kinda wraps up our angle and I ask them when is the last time 5 adults called you up or came into your facility and I said be honest here, when is the last time five adults came in within the last 30 days and asks specifically to train in your style, whatever it is, you know hi sir I'm interested in learning Shotokan karate and I wanna earn a black belt with you and I ask them to be honest and I said well it doesn't happen I said I know because I opened a school and I'm you know I'm a Joe Lewis black belt 42:55 but you know I started realizing nobody cares you know the only ones that care are other martial art guys so that you know out of necessity I developed a program that 43:06 adults into schools and when I 43:10 hey listen you're opening a business that adults don't even walk into, it's all kids and then adults kinda get in backwards you know my son was taking so I did or you know I wanna lose some weight, it's just so rare and I let them know because you're trying to sell a VCR or a beeper in the year 2015. It doesn't you know you open a VCR sales and repair shop in the year 2015 and you're disappointed that you're struggling as a business owner and I tell them okay let's look at that I'm not harping on what you do what is a VCR for and what's a beeper for, a VCR is for entertainment, a beeper is for communication so in today's day and age do people still want both of those, yes change the vehicle open a Netflix store you know sell flat screen TVs you know you're still providing entertainment with a different vehicle, turn that beeper and then get a smart phone you know so you're still communicating via different means in a different vehicle so when I developed cobra we have divisions from active shooter to real estate, to reality self-defense to highly structured, like just a no ego approach and it's fortified with business and it was built with 44:27 martial arts school which is significant there was a lot of add on programs out there that have genius marketing behind them but have never been market tested in a martial arts school so to go full circle with this as a professional I opened my school in 2002 and you know I would field those calls hey I wanna learn how to defend myself well I got this martial art over here called United martial arts dadah I'm a Joe Lewis and then I was like you know what do you hear yourself you sound like every other black belt out there you know I’ve been doing this 20 30 years I trained with so and so nobody cares, all they care about is what's in it for them you know how do I keep you safe the 38 year old woman that was verbally assaulted at the local grocery store by some young kid, she doesn't run home and type Taekwondo into google or anything but she wants self-defense and personal safety and when that dawned on me I said okay let's recreate something that was very very effective at teaching anyone from any walk of life and that was my law enforcement background the police academy you know you can have 30 guys all come in on day one and those lieutenants will look at you and say nobody here is special everyone will start together finish together and so I recreated I mean a complete police academy and now at martial arts schools all over the worlds are using it cause it is the single most effective way to teach the same level from all walks of life and anyone academy will have a police officer stay at home mom a 60 year old 2 teenagers a bunch of girls a bunch of guys people in shape people out of shape people with disabilities and that academy format funnels adults in the schools and then you know the question I was given after one of our first academies was well what's next oh wow so I realized that they didn't care about the martial art they you know we would sign 46:32 of adults in to our adult martial arts through our cobra program so at the end you know what we finally realized is they don’t care about the martial arts they don't it takes too long to explain where you know Okinawan karate came from and who trained with who, people are emotional creatures and they like the experience they got that I recreated you know law enforcement academy you always remember the guys you went to the academy with all your instructors you know just like boot camp it's a defining moment in your life just like college if you graduated from university of Florida you're a gators fan for life it's that alumna you create that experience and then that experience they wanna keep going they wanna keep going with that experience and that experience was me and my facility so we developed this system of keeping students in the martial arts via a different vehicle and to me that's one of the defining moments of you know defining moves of my career is if you like the martial arts learn how to teach more adults and more of what you love and so we just packed out our adult martial art classes via our structured self-defense program.Jeremy Lesniak:Interesting that's really cool and we'll talk a little bit more about that as we get towards the end of the episode but that's all good stuff and really, I hope the listeners are thinking I hope they are willing to open their minds and consider the stuff that you're sharing because it's it is true and it does make sense at least for me and I'm not gonna say it does for everyone but there's certainly a lot of logic in there and I hope you 48:15 take it into heart.Chris Sutton:Yeah we call I call it thinking outside the gi I mean I can teach you know I can teach kickboxing in my gi and I take it off I put on my self-defense instructor shirt and I teach that class and you don't have to compromise we have traditional schools all over the world who their traditional programs are growing because they brought in a feeder program like Cobra's so if you think outside the gi it's better for business, you didn't open your business to struggle, you didn't open your business to have your wife look at you and go hey you're bringing any money home? You know it's you wanna be a business person and make money you got to make the right moves.Jeremy Lesniak:Absolutely, so when we kicked off the episode you told us about all the different people that you would train with or that you had trained with a lot of different people and you know you offered us one a couple names but who would you say was the most influential on your martial arts career?Chris Sutton:That's a good question very good question. Being kind of a journey man I just go in school to school to school you know Jim Graden and then John Graden that circle when I met Jim I’ve gone through a lot of Asian schools and a lot of karate schools but when I met Jim was one of the first guys I ever met that thought outside of his own uniform yl he created a fitness program most martial art guys can't you know they can't bring themselves of doing anything but their style of martial art, Jim was very diverse I mean he had a structured fitness program no matter what happened to him he kept going he kept moving forward and you know he was my first introduction to full contact kickboxing and he opened the door to introduce me to Joe Lewis so you know Jim still runs a successful school today, it's been around forever and a day and he was a great mentor I learned a ton of business stuff you know and you know little advises I remember Jim saying you know watch the young guys you know watch these the young guys in your school they'll hit on the women and break your equipment you know stink your gym up you know who pays your bills are the mothers with the checkbooks they make all you know so all the all this mentoring that my goodness when you see guys get into business you know just because your sidekick is phenomenal it doesn't mean anything you got to be able to be a good businessman. You don't get pay to throw sidekicks, you can throw sidekicks in your living room until your leg falls off no one’s gonna give you a check for it, they gonna give you money for giving them the experience of being in the martial arts and that experience better be good. So you know Jim once told me if you can't close a sale at the front end, go clean up someone's puke on the mat and deal with a parent complained all in the same 20 minutes then you shouldn't be in business and low and behold you know I’ve been in business 13-14 years and that couldn't ring more true and so he was a great mentor later in my years because I we stopped moving I was an adult at that point and I you know I could train with him as long as I want and I didn't have to break away so he was a great influence.Jeremy Lesniak:Wonderful, how about competition?Chris Sutton:To go backJeremy Lesniak:We haven't talked about that.Chris Sutton:Yeah, the competition aspect I never crossed that threshold I never A it never really appeals to me I was more into the practicality of what the martial arts can do for you and also, I moved a lot when you know until I was 18 19 I was you know I was in a new school every year and a half to 3 years, sometime you know just 6 months at a time so it's incredibly difficult to get on that circuit and travel and train and get into competition.Jeremy Lesniak:Okay it's fair honestly, it's a little surprising you know I wonder you know because you said before you were so competitive I wonder you know and of course one of your big mentors Joe Lewis you know how did he raised to notoriety was through competition I wonder again had life taken a different track I wonder how you would have done with that I bet you would have been pretty good at it.Chris Sutton:Yeah I think I was you know my athletics had a grip on me and that was where my heart was as far as competing and I know me if I were to get into competitive martial arts I would drop everything else and cause that's what it takes you have to live it and I wasn't linked to do that I was too busy you know being this track champion guy and playing football and doing all these other stuff and so while earning accomplishments in defining my you know psyche and my body through the martial arts that was the vehicle I used you know stay strong stay flexible keep moving forward, learn the discipline you know learn all the fighting aspects that's what the martial arts supplied my competitive desire was when I achieved a new belt in the martial arts yes I did it that's great but I didn't need a trophy I didn't need a belt, I didn't need any of that I loved the competition of sports just flat out beating someone at their own game and you could say that about the martial arts you know you're beating someone at their own game but I just that was where my heart was.Jeremy Lesniak:Fair enough so how about people that you haven't trained with if you could add somebody to that great list that you've got well who would it be?Chris Sutton:Well it's gonna be a cliché but it's a little closer to home to me I mean when Joe sits down and he talks about you know well when Bruce was doing this and Bruce was I mean I would love to train with I would love to be in the presence and train with the great Bruce Lee clearly he was an innovator for the arts making it more mainstream and he taught Joe Lewis who taught me and to me that's you know that's kinda like your great grandfather that's your lineage that's where some of your influence came from you know anytime you’re sitting there talking to a guy that's trained with Bruce Lee and he's telling you about their his experiences and you know Bruce did this and he asked me to it's just great so I would love to train with that man.Jeremy Lesniak:And certainly, the most given answer to that question and it's interesting that if we think back this martial arts actor because that's how he had such a strong influence on all of us it was not because he had a chain of 500 martial arts schools it was what he did in cinema and on television.Chris Sutton:If well if I could have one more clearlyJeremy Lesniak:Sure,Chris Sutton:I wanna be with Bruce Lee because he was my instructor's instructor but you'd have to time travel Musashi he was a defining character in the arts and you know my favorite book you know book of 5 rings phenomenal I mean you can read that book and apply it to business you can apply it to your daily life it's a great book it stood the test of time and to be so good at what you do to the point where you have to use a wooden paddle to beat your opponent because you just wanna make it fair or to challenge yourself in a different way, that's greatness and he did it in a time where you had to win and that's what I tell people all the time you know the martial arts have been standard from when you had a fight to win that was the real martial arts in my book you know there was no belts no trophies no one cared about any of that I don't care what color belt you have on 56:32 you survived that situation so to be such a dominating presence in what he did and to you know he opened a school and taught you know almost like a Luke Skywalker you know he got to that level and that he that greatness level so he just he's so good at what he did and I really I’ve researched everything about him and he's that's the guy I would like to train with.Jeremy Lesniak:That's an answer we haven't had before and wonderful and of course that gives us your favorite book, the question that I would have asked you shortly but how about favorite martial arts movie?Chris Sutton:I have 2 one is the cliché Karate you know the Karate Kid you know you see that and how can you not get pumped up about the teacher student relationship all the lessons learned there you know the original karate kid of course.Jeremy Lesniak:Right.Chris Sutton:You know wax on wax off you know both sides you know 57:34 done Mr. Miyagi both sides and he then he starts to question his teacher and then clearly you know Miyagi had his best interest in mind so that's a great movie more so you know I referenced Luke Skywalker I like the The Empire Strikes back and the Return of the Jedi and while you'll that those aren't martial art movies, they're clearly parallel to the martial arts you know that the scene where Luke goes to the Dagobah and he's training with this little ranked guy he doesn't look like he can do anything you know he's using his mind to focus to balance rocks to do all these stuff then he loses his cool same thing in the karate kid, questions his teacher his master and you know he maybe thinks he's a little you know maybe thinks he can't do it he can't whatever the situation his teacher says you can do this or don't try you know do or do not, there is no try that whole thing and so he lifts his ship out of the water and then he becomes a believer you know and he continues his training in Return of the Jedi, masters his weapon masters his mind and then returns to see if he's fully vested as a Jedi and he say no you know you have to go confront your father and to me that's confronting your fear what's your fear in life, your fear to start a business, to stop a business, to stop a relationship whatever it is it tells a great story and it's very streamlined it has all the principles of martial arts in there and you know all the combative scenes and all of you know be focused and all that good stuff so I like those 2 movies in reference to what it brings to the martial art table.Jeremy Lesniak:Those are wonderful movies of course movies that I really enjoy. I don't know that I ever drawn the parallel with martial arts in the way that you have so I think that's fantastic and of course there's got to be something special to them when we go back we watch them now no they don't have the special effects no they don't have amazing acting but yet here they are close to 40 years later we've got sequels coming out and the world is pumped up about that.Chris Sutton:Yeah because you can relate to it I mean it tells a great story I mean and it's so closely knitted to the martial arts you know George Lucas will tell you that Darth Vader's helmet was based off of the Samurai helmet and when you see that you're like yes, it is that is it right there.Jeremy Lesniak:Oh wowChris Sutton:So, and you know the black capes the black belts you know the samurai sword the light saber all that stuff it's very parallel in you know those two worlds I guess you have to look into it a little bit more and I did and to me it's I can sit down and watch those movies day in and day out.Jeremy Lesniak:Wonderful wonderful movies for sure. How about a favorite martial arts actor, would that be Bruce Lee or somebody different?Chris Sutton:Well he was only he only had a handful of movies you know those are great but you know I like Jet Li because of his range of acting. He can go from a very traditional back in time walking on the tree tops fantasy land type martial art movie down to playing a villain and lethal weapon so to have that range and he's not he's not stuck in a typecast you know he's not the guy that can do the splits he's not the guy that you know does the same thing in every movie. Jet Li has been in a ton of movies and he's extremely popular and famous in his homeland for what he can do and he you know he came up through very traditional upbringing to be able to do what he's doing and to transition that into mainstream American TV I love it and just watching the guy move is phenomenal.Jeremy Lesniak:One of my favorites for sure as well. So, we've talked a lot about what you're working on now but do you have any goals what are you striving for as a martial artist right now?Chris Sutton:Well you know to 1:02:00 back up really quickJeremy Lesniak:SureChris Sutton:What am I striving on for the future as a martial artist when we developed the Cobra program we found that there was a gap where the students that were in the self-defense program didn't necessarily wanna go into a traditional martial art, they didn't wanna get a white uniform and stand up in a line and wait 3 or 4 years to accomplish their main goal so we developed the long term modern adult training program called the cobra fighting systems and that one you know they went international as well the reason it became popular really quick is it's not traditional it doesn't have the gate keepers of tradition it doesn't you don't have to say you know there's no masters no sensei’s you can wear you know your shorts your shirt we even got the ranking system down to wearing a colored wristband on your wrist you know the inspiration for pulling a lot of the tradition out but keeping it just a hint of it well as you know I was out at a grocery store one time and I saw a family that just got out of a martial art class clearly but other people were staring at them like it was Halloween you know they were all in their white uniforms in their sandals and they're shopping. As a martial artist I know what they just did and I'm not staring at them like they're in a circus but everyone else was and I realized that my true passion is to get more people exposed to what I love to do and it's all the martial arts all the self-defense so how do we keep adults longer than 10 weeks if they don't wanna be in that uniform and have that stigma attached to them you have to create something that makes sense to them so we created the cobra fighting system the word fighting came from my homage to Joe Lewis the Joe Lewis fighting systems. I didn't wanna create you know cobra MMA or cobra martial arts the word martial arts isn't even in it and it's almost like a college based training program you get credits for every class you can wear normal clothes, shoes on or shoes off, they do their scenario training they do you know kickboxing all their self-defense it's a very unintimidating and modern way to train so my goal is to push more of that to push our cobra fit to push the cobra brand because right now I feel as though the industry is sprinting you know guys wanna sprint they wanna do well and they're breathing through a straw and of course you're gonna struggle of course that's painful to be in business of course your phone's not ringing off the hook, you have to have the courage to change you have to have the courage to ask yourself what does the public want and how can I give him more of it and it has nothing to do with how you were brought up it has where you know you have to go you okay I can get more adults or more kids or this market by doing this, it's proven it works and then you implement it and now you're a more of a proficient and effective instructor, not because we taught you a kick that you didn't know it's because we took that straw to your mouth and allowed you to breathe so the fighting systems is they earn a blackbelt in it, they get out their 10 week program we give them credit for the training they already did, they have that significance they feel part of something they get to stay with the same instructor and the same facility long term. It builds businesses and it gets more adults involved and creating and you know refining these programs is my main goal. I have a couple blokes coming out you know the one's called there's no tapping out in real life and it's the trials and tribulations of coming up in the industry you know some war stories and all that good stuff and 1:05:58 more of a motivational book and you know just developing clarity if I could just wrap it up developing clarity and industry because you got to remember I we talk to guys all over the world so we get a good feel for what's out there in every market not just karate guys the guys that you know we have guys that teach out of churches we have guys that own multiple schools, we have guys that having an open schools but they're they go to our training system and their very motivated and you start to get disappointed with a lot of guys who can't think outside the gi. You know they're frustrated they call you and they tell you I don’t have a lot of business and I want but they still want to you know they think that the Cobra defense program is offering a class and it's not it's a business but then we have guys that are so successful and we have guys that they give you unsolicited emails about tripling their business and you know we have guys that take this to Cambodia and teach their law enforcement and help prevent sex trafficking and violence over there and corruptions so my mission for the future my goals are to you know we're in 22 countries I would like to be at 60 countries strong you know 400 locations that means there's more people in the world training in what we all love. You know at the end of the day it's all martial arts you know I said before there's a difference between self-defense and martial arts but we want more people kicking and punching at the end of the day you know that's my goal.Jeremy Lesniak:Fantastic goals and through the discussion, you've talked a lot about cobra and everything and I think people have a pretty good idea of what it is that you're offering but just on the I guess more on the business side if somebody wanted to learn more if they were interested in bringing this to their martial arts school where would they go would you give more information?Chris Sutton:Well it's very simple and cobra is a business system with law it's a law enforcement based so if you are a school owner out there you know if you wanna be part of a global brand that teaches legitimate tactics you know you don't get more legitimate than law enforcement based and when I say law enforcement based we literally we took everything from the law enforcement training division except for patrol operation and arrest techniques because that's not conducive to training civilian but we have easy ways to get involved you'll be able to offer the cobra self-defense 10 week program the 5 week program 1 day camps for kids adults the anti-bullying program, active shooter we have guys all over the country teaching active shooter for schools churches and businesses and they're saving lives and adding tremendous value, cobra fit program is huge it's the fitness division that we have it's a fighter's workout it's nothing there's no better way get into shape than a fighter's workout and routine we have a lot of on all those divisions make money on their own so you can have access to all of those by going to selfdefensecertified.com self-defense certified you could try it for free there's I mean we've been told that we're one of the most organized and structured add on companies out there and then one of the most affordable. Our customer service is impeccable we you know we answer the phone I mean all of our trainers and managers from me all the way down to our directors they pick up the phone and they give solid advice as the news coming out this is the demonstration you should do. Okay you got a business that wants your services and they have 50 employees how should you price it so we're you know they have the complete business model they get websites they get everything they get all the marketing all the support and you know in a proven system and we've been around since 2002. So selfdefensecertified.com if you want social proof, if you wanna see guys actually using it, go to selfdefenseprofessional.com, that's our magazine you can go on there and read with owner testimonials with all their you know school pictures, class pictures, unsolicited testimonials and then how much money these guys are making and we have reference of those for you if you wanna call them as well so you can also check out our anti bullying program at bullyactionplan.com, bullyactionplan.com, selfdefenserealestate.com is our real estate division and we have guys that make $500 for 90 minutes session from a real estate agents just teaching them the do's and don'ts of self-defense. So we have a lot of different ways that our school owners make money and we have guys that are extremely successful and they don't even own a 1:10:50 of school and that's the beauty of it I mean going out there and getting it $3000 or $5000 amount 1:10:57 and all those you know signage if that's not something that you can afford or even wanna do we'll show you how to actually get your business started without a 1:11:05 go to satellite locations we have guys that teach out of you know Zumba facilities dance halls, the you know the local community center so it doesn't you don't need that prerequisite and you don’t have to be a martial artist a matter of fact a lot of the martial art guys are the hardest ones to work with because you have to untrain them you know one of my sergeants in the police department you know said to the group he said you know the best shot in this class will probably be a female and so we asked why because they're a clean slate we can teach them how to do it right the first time a lot of guys come in with bad habits you know they're doing the cup and saucer technique with their gun and so there's a lot of bad habits that you have to break there so and he was right you know one of the top shots in the academy was a female and but we like working with guys that are open minded that think outside the gi and we have a lot to offer I mean every guy that brings us on and follows the game plan is successful.Jeremy Lesniak:Wonderful and of course we're gonna have links to everything that you just mentioned, books, the whole shebang all the things that we've talked about today over at the website, whistlekickmartialartsradio.com thank you so much for sharing all of this stuff with us and I'm hoping you have some last words of wisdom?Chris Sutton:Yes and thank you Jeremy it's I mean I love doing interviews and I feel as though if I had one thing to say to every martial artist and self-defense instructor out there reevaluate everything that you're doing to add value to yourself to your family to your bottom-line if it's working keep doing it if it's not adjust it you're in this if you're in the business of martial arts that is your primary concern to be in the business and to be making more money to you know support your family and have a healthy business career and also anytime things get tough I mean you know whether you just get out of surgery you go through a divorce I’ve always turned to the martial arts I’ve always turned to training I’ve always turned to setting goals, go earn another blackbelt or another degree on that blackbelt get involved in something new in the martial arts go hit a bah work some 1:13:22 you clear your mind and reestablish who you are as a human being and that will lead you in the right direction, everybody needs a system reset every ones in a while everyone and the martial arts is perfect for that it's total body cleansing it's clarity it's all about you and that's why it's so powerful and so important.Jeremy Lesniak:Fantastic, thank you so much for being here I really appreciate you having on and being so open and honest with everything you shared.Chris Sutton:Thank you so much, Jeremy, I appreciate it.Jeremy Lesniak:Thanks for listening to episode 46 of whistlekick martial arts radio and thank you to Mr. Sutton. Head on over to whistlekickmartialartsradio.com for the show notes with links to everything we talked about today, including links to Mr. Sutton's programs and how you can learn more about training or adding them to your school. If you want to be a guest on the show or you know someone that would be a great interview please fill out the form on the website and don't forget to subscribe to our newsletter so you can stay up at everything we do. If you liked the show please subscribe or download one of the app so you never miss out in the future and if we could trouble you to leave us a kind review wherever you download your podcasts we'd really appreciate it. Remember if we read your review on the air just contact us and we'll get you a free pack of whistlekick stuff. If you want to follow us on social media, we're on Facebook twitter Pinterest and Instagram all with the username whistlekick. 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