Episode 1016 - Michael Calandra

In this episode, Jeremy chats with Martial Truth podcast host Michael Calandra about his journey into the martial arts of Isshin-Ryu, Judo, and Taijiquan.

Michael Calandra - Episode 1016

SUMMARY

In this episode, host Jeremy Lesniak engages in a deep conversation with Michael Calandra, a seasoned martial artist with a rich background in various styles including Isshin-Ryu, Judo, and Taijiquan. They explore Michael's journey through martial arts, the importance of cross-training, and the principles that guide effective teaching.

The discussion also delves into the significance of self-defense training, the differences in teaching kids versus adults, and the complexities surrounding rank in martial arts. Michael emphasizes the need for a more holistic approach to martial arts training, focusing on principles rather than personalities, and the importance of adapting teaching methods to suit different age groups and skill levels.

In this conversation, Michael Calandra and Jeremy Lesniak explore the evolving standards in martial arts training, emphasizing the importance of adapting practices for longevity and health. They discuss the role of instructors in fostering student engagement and the necessity of injury prevention through proper body mechanics. The dialogue also touches on the impact of the Martial Truth podcast in sharing knowledge and experiences within the martial arts community.

TAKEAWAYS

• Michael Calandra has been training in Isshin-Ryu since 1979.

• Cross-training in various martial arts can enhance overall skills.

• Principles should take precedence over personalities in martial arts.

• Teaching methods should differ for kids and adults.

• Rank in martial arts should reflect individual progress, not just time served.

• Rank should reflect individual journeys and capabilities.

• Proper training can prevent injuries and promote longevity.

• Martial arts should adapt to the practitioner's body and age.

• Health benefits are integral to martial arts training.

• The martial arts community needs to be open to evolution.

• Injury prevention requires understanding body mechanics.

• Training should be enjoyable and sustainable for all ages.

• The podcast serves as a platform for sharing diverse martial arts perspectives.

• Martial arts can provide significant health benefits when practiced correctly.

CHAPTERS

00:00 Introduction
01:01 Exploring Michael Calandra's Martial Arts Journey
03:07 The Importance of Cross-Training in Martial Arts
06:12 Principles Over Personalities in Martial Arts
08:56 The Role of Self-Defense in Martial Arts Training
11:58 Teaching Approaches: Kids vs. Adults
15:00 The Significance of Rank in Martial Arts
18:04 The Evolution of Martial Arts Training
36:17 Redefining Standards in Martial Arts
39:07 The Role of Instructors and Student Engagement
41:50 Injury Prevention and Body Mechanics
47:03 Adapting Training for Longevity
49:51 The Evolution of Martial Arts Training
54:13 The Martial Truth Podcast and Its Impact

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Show Transcript

Jeremy Lesniak (03:01.04)

What's happening everybody? Welcome back. It's another episode of whistle kick martial arts radio today. I'm joined by Mike Calandra and We're gonna talk about who knows what and I've got some stuff here I've got some ideas of where we might go, but I don't know yet because it hasn't happened But if you're not new to the show, you know that we go all over the place if you are new to the show I would recommend that you check out two different places whistle kick calm is our online home It's everything that we do from this podcast to the events that we do

our apparel, our training programs, you name it, it's over there. Now, whistlekickmarshallartsradio.com is our digital home for this show, the world's number one traditional martial arts podcast. I roll my eyes at myself because nobody made me say that, but we're proud of what we do, even though, you know, kind of tootin' our own horn isn't something that comes easily to me. The team does a tremendous job, and if you wanna go and find all the things that we're doing,

with the show, maybe sign up for the great newsletter that we do that gives you behind the scenes access to these episodes, whistlekickmarshallartsradio.com. Now, this episode is sponsored by Kotaro. If you've been around a while, you know what Kotaro does. they sent me this awesome autism awareness belt. And this belt, like all of their belts, made in the USA, available online at kotaro.com, K-A-T-A-A-R-O.com. WK10 gets you 10 % off. You can use your wholesale discount if you have a school to save 10 % over there.

And what else? What else do I want to tell you about that? You can find all belt and embroidery options in their theme belts category at Katara.com. Thank you to Katara for continuing to sponsor us and do all the cool stuff that you're doing. Without further ado, Mike, welcome to the show. Thanks for being here. So.

Michael Calandra (04:44.723)

Thanks, glad to be here.

Jeremy Lesniak (04:49.744)

As I was looking through, and maybe this isn't the best place for us to start, but it's where we're gonna start because it's something that really struck me. When I look at your background and the styles that you've trained in, you let off your list with Ishen Roo, which was one of my original styles. Now, I've gotta say, I haven't bumped into too many Ishen Roo people who've trained in all of these other things. When we think about styles,

There are certain styles that seem to attract people that train in, that they do more cross training than others. And to my fellow Ishenru folks out there, I'm not disparaging you in any way. just, when I meet Ishenru people, they tend to be locked in lifelong Ishenruers. So what's the story here? How does this happen?

Michael Calandra (05:38.798)

Well, I'm a lifelong Ishinru. I mean, you know, recently, you know, I was promoted to judon by the present headmaster of the system, Kichiro Shimabuku. So I've been doing Ishinru since 1979. I've been with Sensei since 1979 in terms of being in that association. you know, but early on, I really got into martial arts. And when I got into martial arts back then, the only books that were really available were the Don Drager book.

Jeremy Lesniak (05:40.922)

Okay.

Michael Calandra (06:07.558)

so, know, reading those books and seeing all these different arts that were out there and me pretty quickly, becoming totally, really becoming one of my main focuses at 15 of training in martial arts. my first instructor had also studied a style of jiu-jitsu, which he was not doing at the time, but I managed to go and train with one of his students and a student of someone else in New Jersey.

And that was my first introduction to the Japanese Kouru, the ancient arts. I saw the original Shogun on TV and I decided I had, yeah, well, that was the thing that's, that set me on the path of Japanese swordsmanship. And at the time in New York, there wasn't a lot of Japanese swordsmanship. I saw, no. Yeah. Yeah.

Jeremy Lesniak (06:46.46)

Was that it? Did it for you?

Jeremy Lesniak (06:57.976)

No, no, if we're talking late 70s, early 80s, yeah.

Michael Calandra (07:02.572)

So I found one guy who was a student of a Japanese instructor. When I went to meet him at the time, was about, I was 16 years old. think maybe a year, maybe I was just turned 17. And even as a teenager, I just wasn't impressed with the guy. So I looked in the phone book and looked up his, back then we actually had phone books and I looked up the teachers, the Japanese teacher's name and he was listed and I called him at his house.

And he answered the phone and I introduced myself and I said what I wanted to do and he said, okay.

Jeremy Lesniak (07:35.386)

We, gotta press pause there because that's a thing that would never happen today, right? To be that forward as a teenager and so direct that, coupled with the fact that it wasn't uncommon for people to look up a name in a phone book back then, right? We haven't quite had that for about 15 years, 20 years that people just go, your name is here so it must be acceptable. Because to the kids out there, you could have your name removed from the phone book.

So we assumed if it was listed, it was OK to call it.

Michael Calandra (08:06.488)

Well, the funny thing was, is obviously he was the only Otani Yoshiteru in the phone book. Right? I mean, how many of them were going to be in New York? And he was very nice when I spoke to him on the phone. He direct gave me a phone number to call so I could find out where the classes were. And that started me in Japanese swordsmanship. So pretty early on I was crush training. That led me to Jodo.

You know, and I just, you know, again, in certain arts, Johto, I did for a very, very long time. I traveled back and forth to Japan to test three different, on three different occasions.

Jeremy Lesniak (08:38.746)

Now when you say JoDo, you mean Joe as in the stick. Joe. Yeah.

Michael Calandra (08:42.19)

The short stick versus the samurai sword. Yeah. Shindou Musuru Jodo. you know, and then, uh, Jiu-Jitsu I try, you know, I still train in karate. Obviously I'm still teaching and training also. And, you know, then that eventually led me to Chinese arts and what led me to Chinese arts was I was training in Jodo, um, in Japan. And one of the Jodo students was a senior teacher of Chinese martial arts. And he said, Oh, we're doing a class on Saturday. You guys want to come?

And we said, sure. And so started exploring that. Actually, he came to New York for 10 days, taught at my school for 10 days. And then down the road, and I was introduced to master Chen Zhanghua. And that started me on the path to Chen style Taijiquan practical method, of which I'm an indoor disciple. I've been doing that over 25 years. And eventually I met Lu Changyi, headmaster of feeding crane Kung Fu. And I've been training in that for...

Jesus, I'm not even sure now, 15 years, maybe a little more. I don't even know. I can't even keep track anymore. So I trained in a lot of different martial arts. You know, I'm a principle-based practitioner instructor, meaning, you know, principles over personalities for me. A lot of guys get hung up. Ishan Ru is a prime example. A lot of guys get hung up. They're in this particular teacher's camp. They're in that particular teacher's camp. That teacher has...

Jeremy Lesniak (10:06.094)

You said it, not me.

Michael Calandra (10:07.618)

That teacher has, and it's not just Ishinru, it's all the different styles. It's every style, right? Yeah. And I think that actually hurts them as practitioners. And I think it hurts the style because what you have is you have only one person's opinion on everything. And you know, they buy into that cult of personality and he's right on everything. you know, no one's right on everything, including me, including the founder of Ishinru.

Jeremy Lesniak (10:09.964)

No, no it is not, but I understand what you're talking about.

Michael Calandra (10:35.274)

no one's right on everything. It's really incumbent upon us to look at principles and find those things that are correct in how to move and what to do. And that's what I'm pretty much devoted to. So I'm not hung up on the personalities. I've trained with a lot of different people in Ishinru, a lot of Tatsuo students I've trained with. I've trained with a of the Okinawans. So yeah, so that's what led me to all these different arts.

And you know, I love martial arts. I'd train in more if I could, but my wife would probably kill me because I'm already doing so many. And you know, I had the headmaster of I was given a personal tour of the Aikido Hombu Dojo in Tokyo by Morotaro Ueshiba. And at the end, he said to me, please teach Aikido. And I looked at him and laughed and I said, Sensei, if I teach any more martial arts, my wife, my wife will kill me. And he laughed and he goes, I understand because

It's just, don't have enough time in the day to teach everything. In New York, I was teaching six arts. Out here in Arizona, I'm pretty much teaching four.

Jeremy Lesniak (11:40.88)

When you were teaching six, were you teaching them independently? This is Ishinru class, this is... Okay. Okay.

Michael Calandra (11:44.622)

They're all independent. Yes. All independent. So my Taiji master has said to me on more than one occasion, he's the only guy I've ever seen that can keep everything distinct and separate.

Jeremy Lesniak (11:56.688)

Hmm. Where does that so? Maybe maybe I did accidentally start in a wonderful place because that that is really unique. Here's why I say that most of the people that I know when they start cross training it is because they are intentionally looking for what does this art have that this art does not so that even even if I think of them, you know, even if they are independent my personal personal expression of martial arts.

is more complete. But I don't think I'm hearing you say that. Okay.

Michael Calandra (12:32.514)

Yeah, I'm not saying that. So what I will say is most of the Ishinro Karate that people are doing is not complete, but that's on them. That's not on Ishinro. It's the same with the other Okinawan Karate styles. I was just in Okinawa in December and I had this discussion and I was asking people like Jane Pankiewicz and Dan Antison who live there. I said, so let me ask you guys a question. Yeah. Yeah. Let me ask you guys a question. Where's the emphasis on self-defense?

Jeremy Lesniak (12:54.73)

James great guy has been on the show

Michael Calandra (13:02.07)

in Okinawa. And, you know, James made the statement that, well, Okinawa is a very safe place. And I said, well, I understand that. But I said Okinawans never travel. They never travel someplace where maybe it's not as safe, where maybe they may have to defend themselves. And I said, you know, the founder of Ishinro had a knife defense curriculum. The founder of Ishinro had a ground fighting curriculum. And I said to them, so you guys live here. When's the last time you saw an Okinawan master teach knife defense or teach ground fighting? And they both look at each other. And what was the answer?

The answer was never on both cases. So again, it's not that the art is limited. It's that the representation of the art is limited. So, you know, you know, my first instructor who was not a nice guy and not a good individual, I eventually had to left for a myriad of reasons. Okay. But he was into self-defense. He did teach ground fighting. He taught knife defense. He taught, taught gun disarms. So he did teach a lot of that stuff. you know, so, so again,

No, I did not cross train because the first art I was studying, I felt lacked something. I cross trained because I was looking for what to see, what these other arts brought to the table in terms of my personal self-defense journey. My soul being for starting martial arts was to learn how to fight. There's a violent incident involving my parents with a gang of hoodlums in the little neighborhood we lived in.

Um, with the potential that they would then come after me and I decided, well, I've been a learner out of fight. I was a member of the local YMCA signed up there and it turned out that that was Ishinru Karate. I had no idea what Ishinru was. Didn't even know what Karate was. Um, started training there and I was hooked quick. Um, you know, and then so, well, what hooked me was, um, I just liked the movement. I mean, I always bring it back to that.

Jeremy Lesniak (14:50.607)

hooked you.

Michael Calandra (14:58.702)

If you don't like the movement, you're not going to do something. You know, if you're, if you're going to study a certain type of dancing and you don't like that movement, you're not going to do it. You're going to move on to something else. Um, so the movement, the training, um, I was young, I was 15 in an adult class. So most of the guys are in their twenties. Some of are in their thirties and forties. Um, you know, the big guys, I'm a little guy. When I joined, I was five to 125 pounds. Not that I'm a giant now, you know, on a good day, I'm five, seven. But the point is, uh,

Jeremy Lesniak (15:08.378)

Makes sense.

Michael Calandra (15:28.61)

You know, these guys saw I was into it. So, you know, they pushed me a little bit, which was good. And I really liked it. you know, and again, that led me to jujitsu and you know, jujitsu's emphasis is different. It's a lot more emphasis on, you know, consensual was a joint locking and throwing techniques. you know, so, so there was that, you know, then Johto, again, a weapons art that I just liked. EI Jitsu, EI Do and EI Jitsu. Again, I just love the sword. Just enjoy it.

So some of the arts I do is because I really enjoy them. And, you know, it all, to me, it always comes down to the physical movement. You know, can I perfect that physical movement? Which we all know we can't, but the goal is to try. So yeah, so I didn't, I didn't train in other arts because I thought itionary was lacking. and now I see doing all these different arts. see there's common threads that go through all of them. where I think a lot of people look for the differences.

and try to point out differences. you see, Ishinru does that, that's no good. you see that, Jujitsu does that, that's no good. I think the guys that do that miss the boat. I think you want to look for common threads that go through them. And the more common threads you find, I think your physical martial arts will become better.

Jeremy Lesniak (16:45.352)

I also, I am preaching to the choir here with our audience, but I have a really severe issue when people will say, this person is doing this art and look how they're messing up. Thus, that art is deficient. It's all the videos online of karate versus taekwondo. mean, forget the fact we're not even specifying which style karate.

But why do we assume that person is the greatest implementation of that style and thus if they don't do well, then it's the style's fault, right? To me, it's like saying I had bad Mexican food once, so Mexican food is terrible.

Michael Calandra (17:29.836)

Right, right. Well, I had a, demonstrated, I was in my Taiji masters school up in Canada and there was another Taiji master there. And my master Chen Zhanghua says, hey, go demonstrate some karate. This is like 25 years ago. He's demonstrate karate. And I said, listen, these are all Chinese martial artists. They don't want to see karate. I said, listen, he goes, come on, go out and do some karate. So I went out, I demonstrated Chinto. And you know, when I tell the story, I said, you know, I did Chinto like my hair was on fire.

Meaning like I'm demonstrating in front of the this high level master. I'm not going to nonchalant it. I put everything I had into it and he spoke no English. And when I finished, he brought a translator over and he said to me, he said, your Kung Fu, your Kung Fu is very strong. Right. And then he said, when you learn to relax, your true power will come out. And then he added all things lead to the top of the mountain if done right. So again,

And then, you know, people will knock some of the ancient Japanese arts, like the style of Jiu-Jitsu I do, right, was founded in around 1650. It's a samurai art, was only taught to samurai. So obviously there's techniques against the short sword, were you defending against the short sword and different types of attacks. And some people look at it and go, that's not very practical, right? And then, you know, the 12th headmaster was killed in the last samurai rebellion.

So, you know, one of the things I laugh at is these arts, these ancient arts coming out of Japan, it wasn't about scoring points. It was they were used in combat, life and death combat. So there's certain techniques we look at in modern times. It may not make sense to us, but I bet if we had a guy here from the 1600s living in that environment, when we said to him, hey, you know, this technique seems a little weird to me. Why did you do this? I'm sure when we heard him explain it, we'd be like, oh.

Okay, that makes complete sense. So again, I think sometimes it's like what we see now in society. We apply a modern standard to some historical event that took place 100 years ago when you can't do that. It's the same thing in martial arts. So like in my dojo, the ancient jiu-jitsu techniques that I teach in the kata, I update them in terms of when I teach self-defense.

Jeremy Lesniak (19:55.664)

Seems sensible. Why wouldn't you?

Michael Calandra (19:56.686)

Right, exactly. But, you know, so that's why I don't understand the knock sometimes that people have. you know, it's the same.

Jeremy Lesniak (20:04.816)

Well, you said something I want to go back to and I think this is something that people forget and you're hinting at it and I want to make sure, you we don't have to spend time here and we could come back to it because I did sort of cut you off and I apologize if it was too sharp of a cut. But you mentioned in Ishen Roo, there was knife curriculum, there was ground curriculum. And if those things are not there,

Michael Calandra (20:19.214)

That's right.

No

Jeremy Lesniak (20:35.472)

One could make the assumption, I mean, you were a police officer. Would you not handle entry into a room differently with and without a vest, with and without a firearm? If you know you have ground curriculum versus you don't, you're going to operate differently. If you know you know how to defend against a knife versus you don't, you're going to operate differently. And if we take, let's call it the stand up empty handed curriculum of Ishen Roo.

And this what I'm saying applies equally to everything. If you remove these other pieces. It doesn't work as well. Mexican food without salsa and guacamole is a very different experience. You can still eat it. You can still evaluate it. It still provides nutrition. But if it wasn't designed to be prepared and served in that way. Is it really fair to evaluate it as a complete standalone meal?

Michael Calandra (21:35.31)

Karate especially has got a problem. And karate's problem is it's gone too far in one direction, which is the direction of sport. So it's painted itself into a corner and I'm not sure they know how to get out of it. And again, that's okay if that's what you want, but what was its original intent? It's like you use the food comparison. Okay. So if we're leaving out all these different aspects of karate, is it still karate? So, you know, again,

You look at Ishinru and a lot of the senior Dons in Ishinru could not do all the Ishinru Kata if they're life dependent on it. Couldn't do it. Right. And people say to me, well, that's a bold statement. Okay. Right. And I've been judged at tournaments long, long time ago where a guy left out a whole section of an Ishinru Bokata. I did the whole Kata and he won. And then some, one of the senior Dons, many of them ninth, eighth and ninth Dons came up to me and said, you know,

your kata was really good. And I said, with all due respect, I said to the person, because they were a friend of mine, said, you don't know this kata. And they looked at me and I said, tell me you know this kata. And they said, yeah, I couldn't do the kata. Yeah, it an issue of retorne. It was an issue of retorne. Right.

Jeremy Lesniak (22:45.082)

Was it an issue in your tournament or was it an open? Okay, so theoretically that mattered a lot. Should have anyway.

Michael Calandra (22:51.436)

Right. Right. So my thing is, is again, if you're not focusing on the Kobudo, well, then you're not doing all of Ishinro. If you're not for us focusing on all the different aspects of Ishinro karate, well, then are you really doing the whole aspect of Ishinro karate? And again, take Ishinro out and plug in Gojiru, Shorinro, Uechiru, plug in any art. right. My contention is

When people pull into the parking lot, right? My dojo is at my house. So I have a separate building on my property, right? So when people pull into the parking lot, when they're getting out to come into class, I want them in their head saying, boy, I wonder what Sensei is going to do tonight. Now, the first teacher I trained with, it was the same thing every night. It was the same pattern of the class. But my classes are dramatically different. I change them up every class. And I change up all different types of subjects.

And you you talk about the standup thing and everything. Yeah. I can tell you having been in a lot of actual combat that, this fallacy of every fight goes to the ground. yeah. If you put the opponent down there, that's my idea of the fight go into the ground. The fights go into the ground where you're both on the ground rolling around. Yeah, that shouldn't be happening, especially if you're a trained fighter. but did it happen to me where I actually.

for whatever reason lost my balance, right? And wound up on the ground. Yeah, it did. Okay. So, so again, you know, I, posted a video on my channel last week of me showing some knife defense and explaining knife defense. And a guy commented, well, this is too dangerous. So I don't teach that. And my response to that guy would be, well, okay. So if you're an instructor in London,

which right now has a massive problem with knives. Right. And right now, right. And right now in New York, you have a big, big comeback of knife attacks. Okay. So if you're not teaching any knife defense, then I'm sorry, you're not teaching self-defense. So, and you might say, well, you know, it's very hard to fight a guy with a knife. yeah. Right. Right. So the point is though is.

Jeremy Lesniak (24:47.62)

People do not understand the level of violence that exists in London right now and has for years and it's getting worse.

Jeremy Lesniak (25:10.534)

That's why they use knives.

Michael Calandra (25:14.444)

You're not going to give your students anything. You're going to, you're not going to give them any chance. So I also just think it makes it for a more interesting study. I think you have more people that stick around longer. If it's, think, I think the study of life and death fighting is more interesting than the study of let's get in a car and go to a tournament next weekend and try to win a trophy. And I think for a lot of guys that hit a certain age, I think that

idea of going to that tournament, not everyone's like that, but becomes not that important. And if that's what your school is, your main focus, I think you're going to lose a lot of people. think when the focus is on a more, well, when a guy attacks you like this, you know, and people feel that confidence grow that they can actually defend themselves. I think that lends itself to acquiring and keeping students longer term. So.

Jeremy Lesniak (26:10.288)

Do you teach kids? Does your opinion on that change when you're thinking about younger versus older?

Michael Calandra (26:11.597)

I do.

Yes. I teach kids completely different from adults.

So kids for me, it's more about fun. the curriculum is the same. So if an issue and Rue, will I promote a kid to black belt? Yeah. If he's around enough years and he has, the 10 kata he needs to have, and he can demonstrate bunkai and self-defense and all those things he needs to demonstrate. Right. No, no, no. We just, we just had four teenagers test in the New York school. last Saturday, as a matter of fact,

Jeremy Lesniak (26:36.974)

if he knows the stuff, you don't have a youth curriculum, adult curriculum, youth rank, adult rank.

Michael Calandra (26:49.426)

I posted video of, of them doing say Sankata and a lot of the comments were about the power. Wow. The power. Right. So yeah. So, and again, do I say, that kid's the equal of an adult black belt? Absolutely not. So, but what I want is I want to get the kid to stick around long enough to get to my adult class. So in New York, the school, my dojo just celebrated its 40th anniversary. Thanks. So.

Jeremy Lesniak (27:16.302)

Congratulations.

Michael Calandra (27:18.114)

So we've had kids that start with us at four or five and they stay with us till they go off to college. And the ones that come in as adult class, you know, one of the first things I say is, wow, the adult classes are a lot different because now it's serious. don't teach knife defense in kids' classes. I don't teach gun disarms in kids' classes. I don't teach choking techniques in kids' classes. So there's certain things I don't do. I do a lot of drills, a lot of pad work, a lot of flying kicks.

Jeremy Lesniak (27:39.568)

and make sense.

Michael Calandra (27:47.774)

I want the kids to be active, do different things. want them to, I want to fool them into realizing they're learning karate. Switch to my adult class. The adult class is deadly serious. You know, will I teach jump kicks and adult class? Yeah. For athleticism, but also I'll say, yeah, don't ever try this in a fight. Right. The, you know, so yeah, so I have a, direct dramatically different approach. And I had one of my contemporaries say to me in New York.

you have so many adult students. said to me, you know, I teach adult classes. The guy goes, but I don't have a lot of adult students. And I looked at him and I said, well, you don't teach adult classes. And he said, yeah, I do. I have adult classes on the schedule. And I says, no, no, you don't. I said, you teach your adult classes using the same marketing strategies that you use to teach your children's classes. And I said, okay, but you're going to limit yourself because a lot of adults, that's not what they're they're interested in.

So yeah, I have a dramatically two-tiered approach as far as a kids class and adult class. Very, very different.

Jeremy Lesniak (29:00.448)

My wheels are spinning on that. I'm thinking a lot about that. I guess, did you start like that? Because you pointed out a lot of schools, the material is the same and they market it the same. For a lot of them, the difference between the kids and the adults is simply the expectations. And I also grew up in a school where there was no youth rank. was, I earned my black belt at...

Michael Calandra (29:08.896)

No.

Michael Calandra (29:23.298)

Right. Right.

Jeremy Lesniak (29:30.512)

16 because I was able to do the adult things in what they said was an adult way.

So if you didn't start out that way, what was it that made you change your mind and start to do it that way?

Michael Calandra (29:47.0)

So I went to Okinawa in 1991 and I walked in and there were kids that were probably, again, sometimes it's hard to tell. There were probably 11, 10, 11, 12 year olds wearing black belts. And I was floored. And I said to Master Shimabuku, said, Sensei, you promote kids to black belt? And he made a face at me and he went, yes.

And so later that night after class, we were out to dinner and I asked him, said, Sensei, you you promote kids to black belt. He says, yeah, if they have the requirements, I'll promote them. I said, but they're not as strong as an adult. And he goes, no, they're not. They're different. And then, you know, the first school I was in, no woman had ever made black belt and no woman stuck around. So I asked him about women training and his response was, they're different.

But my first instructor always said a woman had to be as strong as a man. Okay, so that means no woman's ever getting promoted unless you get that rare woman that's gonna power lift and then train in the dojo, right? So he says, no, no, it's different. I said, what about if a guy's older and he joins? Like what if a guy's in his 60s and he joined? He goes, it's different. So he opened my eyes to the fact that, and again, I think a lot of my traditional martial arts friends,

miss out on this and that's why most of them have closed their schools is because they're so stuck in a certain mindset. Well, a 10 year old will never make black belt in my school. Well, as a 10 year old starts at four and by 10 he's got the 10 ish in rukata and he can demonstrate everything and he moves really, really well. Okay, yeah, he's not an adult black belt, but again, with all due respect, not all black belts are created equal. I mean, I go all over the place.

And I see Shodan's and Isshinru that wouldn't be green belts in my dojo. And then I see, then I see Shodan's and Isshinru where I look at them and go, how long are you training? And when a guy tells me and I go, you're only a Shodan and he goes, yeah. And I go like, okay, like again, that instructor's holding the guy back. So a lot of my traditional friends say, I'll never promote a child to black belt. And my first instructor said, once you make Nikyu,

Michael Calandra (32:05.462)

As a kid, you can't get promoted until you're 16. Okay, so every 11 or 12 year old that made an EQ...

Jeremy Lesniak (32:13.513)

And for folks out there, that's second degree Brown.

Michael Calandra (32:15.98)

Yeah. So every kid that made Nikkyu, guess what they did? They quit. So all these different experiences made me have to change my idea. And, you know, again, my idea is what I'll say is I see most martial arts schools where the show dons look incredibly sharp. And then I see a little bit of a decline as they go up in dons. And then, you know, the standard joke in my dojo, my students would always say to me,

Jeremy Lesniak (32:19.983)

Be quit.

Michael Calandra (32:44.142)

Well, you'll never make 8th on. And the first time they said to me, said, why do you say that? They said, because you're not fat enough. And so was right.

Jeremy Lesniak (32:52.732)

Have you seen the shirt? know, know that like the graphic I've seen it on a shirt and it yeah, and it shows the waistline increases the rank increases.

Michael Calandra (32:56.269)

yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Michael Calandra (33:01.346)

Yeah. So, so, you know, the thing was, is, you know, I, in my dojo, you look like, obviously not Arizona. Cause I've only been out here a couple of years. I don't even have, I have one black belt from another Ishinro school that trains with me, but everybody else are beginners. but in New York school, you know, we have eight dons. Okay. So, right. So again, you walk in that school, there's no stripes on black belts. Everyone just wears a black belt, right? I don't wear my red belt when I teach classes, I wear a black belt.

The only time you'll see me wear a red belt, maybe a seminar or promotion. All right. But you go into New York school, there's 10 black belts on the floor. If you're a beginner, you learn within two nights who the senior guys are. Like there's a huge difference in the New York school between the ability of the eighth, seventh and sixth downs and the showdowns. Right. And that, yeah. And there should be, but the problem is

Jeremy Lesniak (33:54.608)

when there should be.

Michael Calandra (33:58.41)

In most places that that's not the case. And then the other issue I have is, is a guy like myself. So I'm promoted to Judan, a 10th Dan by the headmaster of Isshinru himself. Okay. Which again, I was like, okay, great. but when I went to Okinawa, they were explaining to me how to them, it was a very big deal. And these weren't Isshinru people. These were other styles. Right. And, you know, my philosophy is, well, if I'm a 10th Dan, then I better have at least one 8th Dan in my dojo.

I've been have a seventh, a sixth, I've been at fifth dons because if I'm a 10th on and the next highest ranked black belt in my dojo is a go down, I think there's probably a problem. And I think that problem is probably me. My ego saying, well, I don't want anybody to get too close to me. And I see that a lot. And that's another huge problem.

Jeremy Lesniak (34:52.474)

This is

Obviously we don't want to name names. don't want to do anything and say anything that's disrespectful here. But can you unpack that subject for a moment? Because I think there are a lot of people out there, especially if they are younger ranks that may not understand. You just said it so succinctly. There are some people out there who may not fully understand what you're saying.

Michael Calandra (35:20.12)

So, so let me put it this way. So, first off the whole rank thing, I'm not a huge fan of. So in Taiji and feeding crane, there was no rank. You find out when you work out with someone who's who. Right. so, and rank is the easiest thing to get in the world. Okay. If you really want it, you know, believe me, you can get it. right. you know, my thing was, is so rank is for me.

I promote my students and I'm saying to them, I appreciate the hard work you're putting in. You know, it's great. Keep up the good work. All right. But like I tell people the hundreds of times people tried to kill me when I was a police officer, no one ever before they attacked me asked me what rank I was, you know, and I jokingly said, you know, on a few occasions, it probably would have been better if I took the frame certificate and maybe smashed it over the criminal's head. That'd be better use for it than it hanging up on the wall.

So, you know, so that's one thing we need to understand. And I know you've seen it. I've seen it. Whereas person goes up in grade, they get this idea that that enables them to treat those beneath them in a way that I think is utterly ridiculous. You know, unless you're paying my mortgage. Right. So, so again, I think it's important. My philosophy within my own dojo is well,

If I get promoted, then I want to promote my students. I mean, my teacher is shown in Okinawa that he, uh, I mean, obviously. Yeah. Like I tell people when I started at 15, if you ever told me I would be promoted to 10th on by the headmaster of the art, I would have told you you're what. Yeah. Like crazy. Right. Um, right. Right. Um, but you know, my thing is, is as I got promoted, I always would look at.

Jeremy Lesniak (37:07.882)

might have thrown some expletives in there as a New Yorker.

Michael Calandra (37:16.322)

the time in grade for all my black belts underneath me. And I'd look and say, okay, well, who's got the time and this and that. And I'd always look to promote them. And I'm always doing that. You know, every year before I go to New York, I pull out their copies of their forms that have their time in grade on it. And I look and see when was the last time I promoted one of the black belts. And I say to myself, okay, is it time for this guy to get promoted? So.

So I think rank can be used as a good tool if it's used properly. If it's used as a weapon, it creates a huge problem in the dojo. You know, like I've had friends of mine that say they would promoted based on loyalty. You know, based on this, based on that. you know, again, maybe if you're getting promoted to one of the higher Don grades based on loyalty can definitely have a fact be a factor. But if it's a lower Don grade.

I think it's more ability should be the prime factor. And again, that all has to be relevant, right? If a guy has a bad leg, if a guy has this, if a guy's older, you can't expect him to move like the 20-something year old. So I think rank should be a very individualized thing.

I don't think a person should be compared to the black belt next to them. You've got to look at them and say, well, how much better has this guy gotten since the last time he got promoted? And so that's my approach to rank.

Jeremy Lesniak (38:52.88)

We agree, mean, we're overlapping at least 90%, if not more. And for me, what sent me on this...

Journey thinking about it was the realization that we do not demote people as their skills fade So if there if that is true, then rank is not entirely about skill It's about a personal individualized journey. And if you go to look at most schools if you say hey I'm in a wheelchair. I I can't use my legs. Can I come train? Yes Can I earn rank? Yes. Okay, most schools have kicking in their curriculum

Michael Calandra (39:10.764)

Right. Right. Right.

Michael Calandra (39:17.186)

Right. Right.

Jeremy Lesniak (39:34.326)

If I can't kick, but I can still earn rank, then that tells me that is not a hard line standard. That it's about my journey and what I'm able to do. Right. And so for me, that that's led me to, to, you know, when I opened my school, which is, you know, coming up on two years old, a year and a half old, we laid out rank very simply, but definitively in a way to help people understand here's what you should be focused on right now.

Not to say that we don't even have time in grade as a requirement. It's if you can do these things in whatever way is sensible for you on your journey, Like we have, obviously, if we're going to allow people in a wheelchair, just as a counter example, to train and earn rank, there has to be some way that that standard applies to them that needs to apply to everyone else or it's not a standard.

Michael Calandra (40:33.59)

Right. The standard should be.

And has to fall somewhere between there. So, you know, I mean, I have a special needs student training right now. He's 26 years old. it's probably at the age level of eight or 10, maybe even lower. he's not, doesn't really speak much. big, big guy. you know, and a lot of times the class, if there's an even amount, I'll always pair off with him. So I pair off with him in the class.

And you know, I'm sure a lot of people would say, you know, you're so senior, you're pairing off with a special needs guy. And I'm like, well, yeah, you know. And a couple of weeks ago, I had so many people sick out here that he was the only guy that showed up for class for four nights in a row. And I worked with him every night. I mean, that's my job. My job is I'm the sensei. I don't stand up there with my hands on my hips like Superman directing everybody else to work with people. I mean, my job is to train people.

So I still pair off with people, you know, whether they're a white belt, green belt, brown belt, black belt. that's the job. That's the function. I think a lot of guys, as they go up higher in rank, that kind of falls by the wayside. I think they lose that love for the physical training and get all wrapped up in the BS of the supposed rank, which puts you on this supposed pedestal, you know,

Jeremy Lesniak (42:07.48)

my theory on it and I'm genuinely am curious if you agree. I think for a lot of them and I call them the thumbs and belts crowd because you often see them on the sidelines and their thumbs are tucked in their belts and they're observing because they're not training. I think it's fear. I think they reach a certain point where a lot of them realize my skill now is not what it was and I'm so afraid of looking inferior that I'd rather

Not demonstrate I'll have my high ranks demonstrate. I'm gonna still pick it apart Which I think comes across a bit dickish at times all times I'm gonna pick it apart I'm not gonna show you and I just want you to believe that I can still do it and I can still do it better than everyone else But nobody's gonna see it

Michael Calandra (42:57.582)

So one of the issues I think is going on, on my own podcast, the Marshall Truth podcast, I did one where karate needs an intervention, but you can plug in a lot of arts for that. So I asked the senior Shotokan Sensei one time, I said, who studies other arts with me? I said, well, I let me ask you a question. A lot of your first generation Shotokan Sensei in Japan have gotten hip and knee replacement. And he said, yeah. And I said, OK, so why is that?

Jeremy Lesniak (43:06.832)

Hmm... Sure, sure.

Michael Calandra (43:25.39)

I said, so I'm practicing Ishinru going to be 46 years and I'm good. I don't have any issues. Right. Now there are some other Ishinru people that have had problems, right. But I would say it's because they're training wrong. And you know, that's one of the things that I've tried to figure out is when you talk about principles and high level body mechanics, right. Okay. So if we move correctly, then we shouldn't be injuring the body.

Jeremy Lesniak (43:52.112)

I agree.

Michael Calandra (43:53.486)

Okay, so again, I think this is a huge problem and I think the problem becomes, well, I said to him, so why won't a senior Shodokan Sensei raise his hand and say, we have all these older Sensei that get all these body problems. Should we take a look at this? And the answer is no, because in Japan, the protruding nail gets hammered down. And the other thing is, well, no, so-and-so said to do it like this.

Jeremy Lesniak (44:20.048)

This is how it's always been done. We can't change it.

Michael Calandra (44:21.772)

So, so my question is, well, if so and so was wrong, well, then what? Right? So my thing is, I was asked in Okinawa when I was there, some of them said to me, and these were guys from various Okinawan styles. They said to me, you don't move like the other Ishinru guys. And they said, is that because of some of the other arts you study? I said, well, obviously that has to affect it. But what it is is, is I'm looking to move in a high level way where I can generate the maximum speed and power I can.

Jeremy Lesniak (44:27.568)

Hmm.

Michael Calandra (44:50.99)

and not hurt my body. So, you know, I'm still out here doing all kinds of crazy stuff, jump spinning back kicks on the heavy bag. I'm going to be 62 years old. So the thing is, is again, if you train properly, you don't cause your body injury, you know, and even in New York school, we have guys in the mid seventies training the guy that trains here. There's two people here in Arizona that train me 172, 170. mean, um, you know,

Jeremy Lesniak (45:21.156)

What are those things, and I'm not gonna go so far as to say improperly, I think I'm hearing you use that word, but what are some of the changes you've made or the differences that you see, the things you might recommend people do that are creating those injuries? Are we talking about, if we're talking joint replacement, we're talking knees and hips, so we're talking about stances, right?

Michael Calandra (45:44.578)

Yeah, so in Chen style Tai Chi, there's a rule, and this rule applies to all martial arts. The knees are not allowed to move side to side.

If the knees move side to side, if the knees move side to side, you're going to cause a eventual injury. And in feeding crane kung fu, one of the main things is do not do anything that causes the body injury. And if the body does get injured, do not train again until the body's healed. That's one of the things we say in feeding crane kung fu. Okay. You know, I've never heard anything like that said in karate, right? You know, push through it.

Jeremy Lesniak (45:53.903)

on how they're built.

Jeremy Lesniak (46:22.265)

Just the opposite. Yeah, exactly.

Michael Calandra (46:23.514)

You're too tough, right? Okay. you know, I think the way some people kick, I had Bill Wallace stop in my dojo, just walk in out of the blue. So he liked my dojo. says, Oh, you know, I trained in Okinawa and karate with aizo Shimabuku when I was on Okinawa. I said, yeah, I said, I'm aware of that. He says, yeah, your dojo is really nice. I really liked the way, you know, it's the New York school. And I said, Hey, let me ask you a question all these years. Is there anything you would do different now that you're a little older? And he says,

I would never throw a sidekick above my waist.

Michael Calandra (46:56.928)

So again, I think the way we're moving, I think some of the things we do and the way we move causes injury. And again, you don't feel it initially when you're young, but when you're old, now those things start to pop up. So, you know.

Jeremy Lesniak (47:14.148)

Yeah, and I want to support something that you've said there. I have rank under Bill Wallace. I'm recording this. My mother's super foot certificate is, I don't if you can hear that. It's right there.

Michael Calandra (47:25.121)

Okay.

Jeremy Lesniak (47:29.788)

And so I love kicking. love kicking high. It's super fun. Biomechanically, the body is not built to kick much above the waist. It's a dramatic compromise on anatomy.

Michael Calandra (47:42.08)

So the only two kicks we do above the waist in Chen style Tai Chi are what we call a wheel kick or a crescent kick, and what they call a tornado kick. And if you look at the hip joint, that's totally normal for the hip joint because it's a ball and socket, so it can move around.

Jeremy Lesniak (47:56.977)

But I imagine there's also a strong degree of lean as you do that which creates some of the height.

Michael Calandra (48:02.696)

actually no, no. So the front comes up. Yeah. So you, you, so you, when you trained in Ishinru, did you get up to Kusanko? Okay. So, you know, you know, we do the crescent kick and you do put the crescent kick into the jump. So yeah, if you look, if you look at that, when we do that kick, that's the kind of kick I'm talking about. in Ishinru, we're not leaning over when we do that. And again, that, those kicks I'm doing for forever, I don't have any hip issues at all. I don't have any hip issues. Zero. you know.

Jeremy Lesniak (48:04.336)

You're perfectly upright when you do that? Okay.

Jeremy Lesniak (48:10.596)

Yeah, yeah, my favorite cat.

Yeah. Yep.

Jeremy Lesniak (48:20.207)

Okay.

Okay, right.

Michael Calandra (48:31.758)

So again, I got to say, okay, well, why don't I have hip issues? Well, I think because my mechanics are good. You know, my son was a professional baseball player. He made it up to AA. So, you know, and he would talk about mechanics of doing things. And he'd like point out a picture and he'd watch his mechanics and he was a catcher. And he'd say, this guy's going to hurt his arm.

Jeremy Lesniak (48:41.122)

cool.

Michael Calandra (48:59.148)

Okay, so if we apply it to other physical activities, why aren't we applying it to martial arts?

Jeremy Lesniak (49:05.242)

because that's the way we've always done it.

Michael Calandra (49:07.372)

Because we're tough guys. So, so yeah, so that's, that's one of the things I'm talking about in terms of that, you know, and again, when you're in like, I've been in a lot of real fights, and when you're in a lot of real fights, I jokingly say people, you know, I'll wake up in the morning, and I'll get up out of bed, and my back will be a little sore, you know, and I'll say, initially, I might say to myself, what I do yesterday, but then if I realized, well, I really didn't do anything yesterday, you know, and you know, you take a criminal down to the ground.

Jeremy Lesniak (49:13.424)

Okay, that makes sense.

Michael Calandra (49:36.46)

You know, you don't realize you go down harder on your knee than you thought. You move a certain way, you know, and again, but like I tell people those things were in the performance of a duty to protect people, to catch criminals. You know, I'm not interested in getting hurt in a tournament. Like that's just not something I want to do. I don't want to get hurt in my dojo.

You know, I want to be able to train. I want to be able to train when I'm in my eighties. You know, yesterday, a video popped up of our Asenio Dvinkla in Ishinroo. He's 87 years old. And he was demonstrating techniques from the other day, from a couple of days ago. It's impressive as hell. He's 87 years old. He's in, he's in really good physical shape, which helps. Um, you know, and I've seen other people do that and you know, that's what I want to do. And I look at a lot of my contemporaries.

and who've let themselves go or because they never adjusted the training. This is another aspect of the problem. know, they're 17 year old Marines training like lunatics in Okinawa. They come back, that's the only way they know how to train. And as they get older, they keep trying to train like that. Now they get injured and now they just can't do it anymore. So when I was in Okinawa, I asked Master Shimabuku and actually I'll even mention this in Jiu-Jitsu.

Shatama Manzo, the headmaster of Jiu-Jitsu, I asked him about what about an older guy if he wants to do Jiu-Jitsu. He goes, old man falls. And I looked at him and I said, what are old man falls? So he showed me. And I was like, so like even my dojo in New York, which had a lot of the guys that senior guys in Jiu-Jitsu are in their 60s, the mid 60s. know, some of them will still take the big falls, but a lot of them I've told them, I said, well, you've got to transition to the old man falls. You want to preserve the body and be able to train as long as possible.

So I think that's another aspect that we've kind of missed the boat on in the States. A lot of these first generation guys across the board in whatever martial art they studied over there, they come back, you they're 20 year old guys. They only learn that young way to train. They were never taught the older way to train. And I was lucky. I went the first time to Japan. think I was 29 the first time I went.

Michael Calandra (51:56.94)

I don't know why, I guess I just lucked out in that I asked those questions and I have to be honest, I was surprised at the answer, which was, no, you have to adjust the training. You have to adjust the training. And yeah, so I think because a lot of those guys didn't know that, that's why they're suffering from a lot of these injuries they have now that are kind of permanent. You know?

Jeremy Lesniak (52:20.408)

makes all kinds of sense and I think we're finally, you you're not the only one talking about this, I'm not the only one talking about this, a lot of us are finally realizing, okay, if this continues to happen, it suggests that, excuse me, there is a problem. If enough people point out the problem, we can look for a solution to the problem. Maybe we don't all agree on the solution, but at least the problem being exposed can lead to a solution rather than just, well,

Michael Calandra (52:25.836)

Right, right.

Jeremy Lesniak (52:47.384)

grid it out until you're not willing to do that and then stop, which is a silly thing.

Michael Calandra (52:51.042)

Yeah. Yeah. And, know, I'm not against sport karate or sport martial arts. It's not for me. But if that brings somebody joy, I'm all for it. Enjoy yourself. If that's what you want to do, whatever age you are, God bless you. It's not for me. know, and my only thing is, is you can do the sport, but then, you know, just understand you're missing a lot of components of what real karate was.

and maybe have some type of balance where you do both. And I think if people would do that more, you'd see a lot more older students in the dojo sticking around for a long, long time.

Jeremy Lesniak (53:31.76)

I agree. Now you've mentioned a couple of times you have a show. Tell us about your show.

Michael Calandra (53:36.174)

So I started this podcast. just did my 101st episode the other day, the Marshall Truth podcast. Yeah, I have about, I have almost 17,000 subscribers on YouTube. I have about 140 channel members. The channel has over 1,700 martial arts videos on it. So it's a pretty big, it's a pretty big channel. Yeah, it's got a wide range of, I mean, you can,

Jeremy Lesniak (53:40.42)

that's awesome. Congratulations, Marshall Truth.

Jeremy Lesniak (53:53.99)

wow. Yeah, there's a lot of stuff there.

Michael Calandra (54:02.368)

maybe not everything, but you'll find videos on almost all martial arts. So it's not just Isshinru. I do do a lot of videos. You know, I have a series I'm doing on the principles of the martial arts. So I'll do, you know, videos on Marioshi Kobudo, Isshinru, Chen style, feeding crane, you know, across the board, I'll do videos on stuff. And then I do interviews like you're interviewing me. You know, so

You know, my 101st one was Marilyn, Sensei Marilyn Fierro from Long Island. was a senior practitioner of Vishnurukarate. So I've had Patrick McCarthy on a couple of times. I try to, I don't, I try to interview a certain type of person. I've also had a lot of the authors on to talk their books. I know they, I know the channel. Again, when you have almost 17,000 subscribers, it helps because it...

they are selling books. someone, as soon as Marilyn Fierro came on the other day, someone immediately reached out to me, said I ordered both books. So what I'm, I don't care about the channel growing. So what I mean by that is, is I'm now at the point, because the channel's gotten big, I'm getting reached out to people that want to help me make the channel bigger. I want it to grow organically.

I've been retired from the NYPD for, it's gonna be 15 years next month. So I live out in Arizona. I'm a full-time martial arts guy. I like to train. I train every day. I teach five, four days a week, and I do a lot of Zoom classes. So I'm literally teaching seven days a week, when you include the Zoom classes. So I interview who I wanna interview, who I wanna talk to and find interesting.

So like next week I'm interviewing a martial artist from New Zealand who does Maori martial arts. And this week I'm interviewing Yannick Schultz again because he just got back from a research trip to Okinawa in Japan. So he wants to talk about some of the things he was researching and stuff. yeah, and then so the channel's a combination of me teaching things, a lot of historic video.

Michael Calandra (56:17.294)

I was the first person to put video of Don Drager up on YouTube. Last year, Macaron Sensei just passed away, Terry Macaron, senior sensei of Sharnru in New York. He reached out, I know him again since I'm 15, he reached out and said, hey, I've got an old eight millimeter reel of Shoshin Nagamine's first visit to New York. I want you to take it and put it on the channel. So I did that.

Um, so yeah, so the channel's been, initially it started as I had about 200 VHS tapes that had all different martial arts stuff on it. And I said, what am I going to do with this? And then I started transferring it and I started the channel and then I put the Draeger video up and someone contacted me from Japan and said, Oh my God, we showed it to Kamenota Sensei. He remembers filming that in 1970. He'd never seen it. Could you please send him a copy?

So in terms of that, the channel's been incredibly rewarding. Meaning like I get, get messages and emails from people that say, my God, I never saw my teacher's teacher do anything. And I came across your channel and you have video of them up there doing a Cata. And you know, I'm, don't remember the video necessarily, right? Cause it's not necessarily even Ishan Roo, but it's those kinds of things that, keep me going with the channel.

Jeremy Lesniak (57:18.64)

Sounds great.

Michael Calandra (57:41.87)

I've cut back a little bit. was getting putting a video up every day, but it just becomes where Yeah, so now I'm doing a few videos a week I do one podcast a week and Yeah, I like it. I mean it's called the Marshall truth podcast

Jeremy Lesniak (57:46.96)

Wow, that's a lot of work.

Jeremy Lesniak (57:59.738)

We'll make sure we get it linked in the show notes for everybody.

Michael Calandra (58:01.836)

Yeah. And, yeah. So, so that's, like I said, started as a goof. One of my first partners, police partner suggested me do it. I had never even thought about doing a podcast. And then, you know, slowly, but surely I came up with some ideas and I came up with the name and I said, all right, I'm going to give it a shot. did the first one, which was who are you training to fight?

You know, which basically the subject was, you training to fight another martial arts guy? Are you training to fight society's predators who have their own types of techniques in their own ways? and that's the first, my, was the first subject. And then I went off from there. So sometimes it's just me sitting for 25 minutes or 30 minutes talking about a subject. And other times I'm interviewing people and sometimes I talk and then I'll get up and demonstrate some stuff. So it all depends on what I feel like doing. So.

And then people suggest, and now I've got people reaching out for me, asking me if they can come on the podcast. And frankly, some people I'm not interested in, other people I'm very interested in. I was a little taken aback going to Okinawa and realizing the reach of the podcast. And then other senior martial arts people letting me know they're big fans of the podcast. They watch it all the time. I was like, okay, so.

Jeremy Lesniak (59:13.552)

That's great.

Michael Calandra (59:22.158)

I guess this is reaching more people than I thought. So yeah, so I'm having fun with it. That's my main thing. And I talk to people that I'm interested in talking to. Like me and Aya, I think I can learn something from. I can't wait to interview the Maury martial arts guy because that's totally out of my wheelhouse.

Jeremy Lesniak (59:25.082)

Yeah. Good. Good.

Jeremy Lesniak (59:39.962)

Yeah, don't, my, that'll be interesting. I don't know anybody that's trained in that stuff.

Michael Calandra (59:43.141)

Right. So it's similar. I think it's probably similar to Lua, which is a Hawaiian martial art, which I did a seminar in that a couple of years ago. So I found it very interesting. yeah, think I'm going to have to try. haven't interviewed somebody from Filipino martial arts yet, but I have someone in mind that I think I want to sit and talk to. yeah, so I'm interested in not just like Ishen Rue and Marioshi Kobudo and Chen style of the arts. I do. I'm interested in

Jeremy Lesniak (59:49.4)

Hmm, okay. That would make sense.

Jeremy Lesniak (01:00:04.826)

some great folks out there.

Michael Calandra (01:00:12.64)

and talking to people from all different arts. I say all the time, I think there's enough students for all of us.

Jeremy Lesniak (01:00:18.36)

I wholeheartedly agree. And again, yeah, we're gonna link this in the show notes and your social media and everything. So I hope folks will check out what you're doing because I think there's a, I suspect there's enough overlap in philosophy and approach that people would dig what you do. And I've said this all the time. If you find a show that you like better than what we do, prioritize that show, right? Because the whole reason we started this show was

Michael Calandra (01:00:19.586)

Yeah. Yeah.

Michael Calandra (01:00:26.424)

I appreciate it.

Michael Calandra (01:00:43.693)

Right. All right.

Jeremy Lesniak (01:00:46.746)

to create engagement and conversation and build retention in the arts. And I am not selfish at all. Heck, the only reason this show exists is because we couldn't get the existing shows at the time to take our money. So I made a show. So that's why we bring other people to shows on. There's more than enough room out here for all of us doing cool stuff and just like in our training. As we get better, we help each other get better.

Michael Calandra (01:01:01.804)

Right. Yeah.

Jeremy Lesniak (01:01:14.722)

directly and indirectly and I think that's awesome.

And just as I'm going to have you close in a minute, Mike. But for those of you out there, yeah, please check all this stuff out. Check out whistlekick.com. Check out whistlekickmarshwordsradio.com because that's why we're able to do the things that we do. Check out Kataro.com. Use the code WK10, capital letters, for this belt, the autism belt, or any of the other things that they've got going on, all made in the states here. And they do wholesale accounts. So.

Just check it. Thank you. Thank you to Kataro. Thank you to all of you. And thank you to you, Mike. How do you want to close today? What are your words to the audience as we wrap?

Michael Calandra (01:01:59.502)

Well, I just think martial arts offers a lot of benefits to people. you know, I think it's an interesting subject that you can come out from a lot of different angles. you know, I think the health benefits are great if the movement's done correctly. So, you know, just explore that, dig deep into that. If you're an instructor, especially, don't be too close minded, you know, open your mind to other arts. I'm not saying you have to.

Train deeply in a lot of arts like I have, but even sometimes going to a seminar in an art might make you think about something that you hadn't thought about before. So be open-minded and enjoy the ride.