Episode 1036 - Sahbumnim Gus Rogers
In this episode Jeremy sits and chats with Gus Rogers, from South Wales, about his journey through martial arts.
Sahbumnim Gus Rogers - Episode 1036
SUMMARY
In this conversation, Sahbumnim Gus Rogers shares his journey through martial arts, highlighting the influence of movies, the importance of instructors, and the need for individualized teaching approaches. He discusses overcoming personal challenges, particularly in relation to autism, and emphasizes the significance of community support in martial arts. Gus also introduces his book, which offers a unique perspective on martial arts training, and reflects on the future of martial arts education.
TAKEAWAYS
Martial arts can be influenced by movies, inspiring many to start training.
The role of instructors is crucial in shaping a student's journey.
Individualized teaching approaches can significantly impact student success.
Overcoming personal challenges can be facilitated through martial arts training.
Returning to martial arts after a break can be a transformative experience.
Teaching martial arts to students with autism requires patience and understanding.
Building confidence in students is essential for their growth in martial arts.
Community support in martial arts can enhance the learning experience.
Gus's book offers a unique perspective on martial arts training.
The future of martial arts training may involve more inclusive and adaptive methods.
CHAPTERS
00:00 Introduction
01:37 The Influence of Movies on Martial Arts
04:20 Gus's Journey into Martial Arts
07:00 The Role of Instructors in Martial Arts Training
09:59 Transitioning from Student to Instructor
12:41 Overcoming Challenges in Martial Arts
15:18 The Impact of Martial Arts on Personal Growth
18:16 Returning to Martial Arts After a Break
20:54 Teaching Martial Arts to Diverse Needs
23:53 The Journey of Healing and Self-Improvement
32:12 Building Confidence Through Adversity
36:17 Teaching Strategies for Diverse Learners
40:13 Creating an Inclusive Martial Arts Environment
41:57 Innovative Approaches in Martial Arts Education
48:19 The Journey of Continuous Improvement
54:34 Cultural Connections in Martial Arts
To connect with Sahbumnim Gus Rogers:
https://www.hovtsd.com/
Youtube: Heads of the Valley Tang Soo Do
After listening to the episode, it would be exciting for us to know your thoughts about it.
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Show Transcript
Jeremy Lesniak (01:23.138)
What's happening everybody? Welcome back to another episode of a whistle kick martial arts radio My name is Jeremy and I'm joined here today with Gus Rogers Gus Thanks for being here looking forward to our conversation and to those of you out there if you're new or you know I don't know you've had an aneurysm over the weekend or something Don't forget whistle kick martial arts radio.com is the place to go for everything related to this show Transcripts every single other episode we've got over a thousand episodes. You can go back you can watch or listen to them all
for free, click on the links, the social media of the guests, all that good stuff over there. And while you're there, make sure you sign up for the newsletter. We email you only that newsletter anyway, because we've got different newsletters at Whistlekick. The martial arts radio newsletter is just about this show. And we email you behind the scenes. We give you direct links to watch or listen to the episode so you can make sure you never miss one. And I thank you to martialitics for their support. And if you are in martial arts school,
And you have not at least evaluated Marshalletics. You should check them out. If you sign up for their 30 day trial and then mention them, sorry, mention us to them, they'll give you another 30 days to check it out. And from the feedback that we are getting from what I'm seeing personally, Marshalletics is pretty amazing. So go for it. But Gus, I appreciate you being here. I've heard you're pretty amazing too. And I look forward to seeing all that unfold. There we go. How are you? What's going on?
Gus Rogers (02:50.926)
Excellent. Thank you so much for having me on the show. It's a real honor and a privilege. Thank you.
Jeremy Lesniak (02:53.506)
Of course. Of course. So, you you and I were talking before and those of you who are watching this episode versus listening and if you're out there, I know most of you still listen, but you gotta watch once in a while. Sometimes there's some great stuff that happens visually and Gus and I were talking about these pictures that he has over his shoulders of his family where he's inserted himself.
and his family into movie posters and they're absolutely awesome. And it's such a great idea when we're talking about that. it's, know, to those of you out there who don't maybe know, one of the jobs that I have to do really quickly is find a place to build some rapport with the guest. Otherwise it's two strangers talking and strangers are always guarded, right? Like, we've got this martial arts connection. Now I've got a better idea of who you are and...
For example, I know I can say everything I just said and it doesn't make you uncomfortable. You're like, yeah, yeah, that's like, we're here.
Gus Rogers (03:57.224)
I think a lot of people like myself especially got into martial arts because of movies. I think like that most people know most about martial arts from movies because it's not a sport like football or rugby or cricket or something that's that's widespread, you know, obviously there's more of it out now. But yeah, movies are a big part of martial arts and all the biggest action films in the world have martial arts in it. where it lives. So movies is pretty safe one to talk about with martial artists.
Jeremy Lesniak (04:02.924)
Mmm.
Jeremy Lesniak (04:07.074)
I
Jeremy Lesniak (04:12.258)
Mm-hmm.
Jeremy Lesniak (04:25.986)
I was actually thinking about this the other day, even if it's not a martial arts movie, it's pretty rare to find a movie that doesn't have some, even if it's really basic, even if it's two guys punching each other in the face, one punch each side, there's always some violence in movies.
Gus Rogers (04:43.118)
Yeah, if it's an action film, definitely. Like, it's a stunt person, I probably... There's a punch.
Jeremy Lesniak (04:46.12)
Even if it's not, even in romantic films, even in sitcoms, somebody gets slapped. Something happens with some violence.
Gus Rogers (04:55.158)
Yeah, confrontation is very common. It's what people are drawn to.
Jeremy Lesniak (05:02.016)
I think it's pretty organic, right? Confrontation. And I think even, you know, maybe the inverse of that is the romantic side. Even in an action film, there's usually some romantic undertone.
Gus Rogers (05:16.418)
But how do you show that the characters physically cares about something, it's like fighting for love or fighting for what they care about. It's easier to show that in a film through some sort of action, some sort of physical confrontation, because if they're just thinking about things all the time, it's not as easy to portray that on screen.
Jeremy Lesniak (05:22.316)
Mm-hmm.
Jeremy Lesniak (05:27.052)
That's a good point.
Jeremy Lesniak (05:37.974)
You've given me something to think about. It's my favorite part about what I do here, because the guests give me things to think about. Now, you said, go ahead.
Gus Rogers (05:44.334)
Was it a film hero where they have a mind fight? It's like Jet Li and Donnie Yen, think, or something like that, and they have a fight in their mind and then it's all solved in their mind and they go, no, you would have won. It's totally fine. We finish now.
Jeremy Lesniak (06:00.054)
But I'm sure in the movie, I don't know which movie that is, which is weird because I thought I saw all... Well, they've both done a lot of movies, so maybe I've missed... I'm sure I've missed at least one.
Jeremy Lesniak (06:12.672)
I lost my train of thought. That's okay.
I want to ask you about how you got started. Because you said something and I've learned that the way people talk about things gives me gives me some insight. You said most people join martial arts start training martial arts because of movies. So what movie got you to start training?
Gus Rogers (06:18.722)
Yes.
Gus Rogers (06:35.662)
So the movie that I cite the most because I feel that it was a movie that I shouldn't have been watching at about four or five years old is Enter the Street Fighter with Sonny Chiba. It's like an X rated most violent film out there. And again, I was probably watching that. was probably watching not only Enter the Dragon, which is an 18, but Fistful Again, which is an even more X rated film, Kentucky Fried movie. I was watching all these movies with martial arts and it way before. My dad, he's just insane. He just like.
Jeremy Lesniak (07:00.226)
Who's letting you watch these movies at this age?
Was he letting you or encouraging you?
Gus Rogers (07:05.166)
Apart from when I was Oh, encouraging me, definitely encouraged me when I was three years old, he told me that my two favorite films were Good, the Bad and the Ugly and Conan the Barbarian. And I would just watch these three hour epics and then wind them back to the start and watch them again. My dad just loved movies and watched what loved watching movies with me. And I just just grew up on them. So they were my in. And again, I love quoting like End of the Street Fight. You can watch it free on YouTube now. It's got a really good 4K.
Master on it. It's a great film, but that film is great. Please story one and two is a big one. Everyone, everyone always throws shade at Game of Death, but I think Game of Death has the best villain crew that Bruce Lee was ever up against. And I love all the characters in it, like stick and, you know, Hakim and all those guys. Again, I just grew up on these films. They were just like, it could have been Saturday morning cartoons with me because I was so used to my lexicon.
So that's.
Jeremy Lesniak (08:03.266)
It was kind of in my brain comparing those the way you're talking about watching these movies over and over again reminds me of you know my friends kids who they'll watch an animated movie and rewind it and rewatch it they just do it all day long and that's kind of what I'm hearing from you with these films.
Gus Rogers (08:19.104)
Yeah, all kids do. I just guess it's the films that they cling on to at the right age. know, like me and you, no matter how much we love the film now, we wouldn't watch it and then wind it back to the start and watch it again. We wouldn't have time to do it. But when you're a kid and you have nothing else to cling on to, you just want to have that feeling again. And I think that my generation was the first generation where videotapes were around. I was able to do that. And I guess my parents were like, well, isn't this cool that we had to wait like
Jeremy Lesniak (08:25.078)
Yeah. Yeah.
Jeremy Lesniak (08:31.336)
No.
with you.
Gus Rogers (08:46.868)
whole day or a whole week to go back to the cinema to watch it with our child can watch it straight away.
Jeremy Lesniak (08:52.896)
Yeah. And I think sometimes watching it over and over again as an adult can ruin it. Whereas a kid, it's the exact opposite. You become more immersed into it. And I do that now with movie, TV, music, food. Right. I love this, but I don't want to have more of it right now because I want to make sure that it remains special. Yeah.
Gus Rogers (09:13.774)
You to be special, special, yeah. It's an experience, yeah.
Jeremy Lesniak (09:19.702)
So when did this movie interest transition into training?
Gus Rogers (09:24.77)
So I think that when I saw people like Sanichi, but Jackie Chan, Bruce Lee, I saw them as superheroes. Like there was no way that me as a kid could relate to it. And then obviously 1984 is the karate kid. And suddenly you've got a guy who kind of looks like you and is not very good. And they are, they are having the hero moment and you're like, well, you know, maybe I could do that. So we moved to the town where I have my Dojang now, Burmao, and I go to a club.
Jeremy Lesniak (09:32.226)
Hmm.
Jeremy Lesniak (09:41.794)
Mm-hmm.
Gus Rogers (09:53.686)
And it's the classic story. You go into the ledge, and you don't know anything about the style you're doing. All I remember was they weren't wearing geese and there were lots and lots of sparring. And all I remember from the three sessions I went to was there were bigger kids than me, because I think I was about five or six. And I just got beat up the whole time. And I didn't learn anything. And the instructor was very unsympathetic. So at that moment, again, my movies are a real kind of kid brain just went, well, know, karate kid's real, Cobra Kai's real.
And unless I can find a Mr. Miyagi type figure to take me off and train me privately, I'll never be good enough to even walk in the class. And that's how I felt. And that's when I went right back to my movies and went, well, I like movies. I guess I'll never do martial arts. Cut to five years later, my brother's in the exact same position I was in. We've moved to another new town and he goes into his local leisure center and this time it's called Tangsudo. And I don't know what Tangsudo is.
I'm a teenager at that point, I'm 13, so I don't think that it's going to be for me now. I just think, oh, my brother can enjoy it and that'd be great. And my mum kind of turned to me and went, well, you know how you really want to do it when you were a kid? She's like, this one is different. This instructor is patient and it's not all about fighting and seeing who's best. Yeah, I think you should come along and give it another go. So I walk in there very cynical. just like, no, I'm not going to like this. After one lesson, was hooked.
Jeremy Lesniak (11:07.264)
You had the awareness. That's pretty great.
Gus Rogers (11:17.954)
I was into it and I say to people all the time, it's not because of the style, it's because of the instructor was brilliant and the club atmosphere was very warm and welcoming. And that's why I say to people all the time, find a good instructor, find a good club atmosphere with this, know, adults and children, not all children, not all adults, you know, it's a good mix and everyone has that as I'm sure, you know, most people who stick with it do have, but I understand, especially from when I started and there wasn't the internet or the knowledge that is out there now.
Jeremy Lesniak (11:18.274)
Okay.
Jeremy Lesniak (11:24.908)
Mm-mm.
Jeremy Lesniak (11:47.276)
Hmm.
Gus Rogers (11:47.694)
you just went to the martial art and you went I better stick at this whereas like what you're talking before about a meal or a movie no one has just one movie they watch and no one just eats one food they have they try out lots of things and then they find the thing that they like the most
Jeremy Lesniak (12:01.282)
So I'm loving the fact that this instructor so quickly flipped you from being a cynical 13 year old. let's face it, being 13 is already inherently cynical for almost everyone. And so the fact that it happened in one class is pretty remarkable. What do you remember about that class and how?
He? I think you said it was a he. How he was able to...
Gus Rogers (12:32.942)
Yeah, his name is Chris Long. And again, I will say his praises for the end of time because I train with him, my brother train with Even my mum started after a while because she saw how much he was helping us. Our whole family did it. And it a really big part for us. And my friends trained with him. And we all have the same memory of like, no, he was the best instructor. Like, it doesn't matter if you train with him for a year or five years or whatever.
Jeremy Lesniak (12:42.485)
Hmm.
Jeremy Lesniak (12:48.119)
cool.
Jeremy Lesniak (12:56.546)
What made him the best? What can the people out here who might start a school or have started a school or they've been running a school for decades, what should they hear from you about him?
Gus Rogers (13:14.988)
The idea was the diversity of teaching and the patience. I think they're the two things that he had. He wasn't teaching everyone the same and he wasn't making the same demands from everyone. He just wanted you to be the best you could be. And he also trusted you to do these things. Like I talk about my instructor all the time. Like I teach now and I won't do things that my instructor did. So here's a classic example. He used to get us doing flying sidekicks.
Jeremy Lesniak (13:20.834)
Mm.
Jeremy Lesniak (13:25.526)
you
Gus Rogers (13:44.94)
and he'd put little tiny kids on the floor and we'd jump over six kids and break the board or whatever. And I would never trust my students for that, but he trusted us and he never had any accidents. And he would say like, no, you've jumped over three, that's enough for you, Tommy. You have to sit out now. And he would just know these things about you. When I came to spar and he would just go like, just hit me as hard as you can. And he'd let you have 30 seconds and then he'd go like, right, I'm gonna spar back now. And then the fight would be over like instantly.
Jeremy Lesniak (14:00.382)
Hmm.
Gus Rogers (14:12.13)
But he would give you these 30 seconds to go look absolutely whale on me. I'll let you throw everything at me because you need to have someone in class who who you can go that hard against. He said, but when I start fighting back, it's going to go very different. You're going to realize you've still got more training to do. And there was things like I was 13, but because I was tall, he didn't put me with the kids. He put me with the adults. And I always appreciate him for that because he wasn't like, you're young, so you must go with the kids. He's like, no, you're tall enough. I think you can handle it.
you go with these adults, they'll make you better. And they did, they really did. I think if I was a short 13 year old, I'd have had a very different experience, but potentially, I don't know.
Jeremy Lesniak (14:49.59)
Yeah, what I'm hearing is he had the wherewithal to recognize everyone on an individual journey and respect those journeys and.
facilitate your growth in that way, which is something that, as I spend more time in more schools with more instructors, I'm realizing that that's a core aspect of being a great instructor, is not the one size fits all path. The instruction, the base level of what we're teaching might be one size fits all.
but how people approach it or the number of kids you jump over, for example, right? That changes versus everybody's gonna do a jumping sidekick. Or if you can't jump, maybe you're just doing a sidekick. Or maybe you just learned a sidekick. it's, show me a sidekick, right? Like the sidekick still matters.
but how we express it can change. Does that make sense? Does that sound right? Okay.
Gus Rogers (15:51.31)
Of course, and that's what I've tried to do. I've tried to carry on my instructor's legacy where we have a dojang model or gym model and it just says master the enemy within and all of the cease to be meaning it's your journey. We know when I'm assessing students, I'm like, look, I want you to be better. You know, let's say you're grading to your next belt. It's like it's how you are better than your next belt. You're not comparing yourself with with Sally across the room or Jeremy or anyone like that. Those people are there to elevate you. They're all there to.
you on. Like you know always going to have one person in the classroom who's naturally good and you're going to always have a couple of people in the classroom naturally weaker. But you know if I'm noticing that my god you're kicking higher today that's so great or you your form you're smashing it now and before you are really having trouble with that one turn or something. If as an instructor you're noticing those things and encouraging the student to move forward instead of going like you're not sparring very well you're not winning us medals or whatever else. I don't know these bad instructors because
I only met them one that one time, but you know, if you've got those in contrast, those are going to cause very toxic negative atmospheres that especially as a child, you might not necessarily pick up on. Because all you want to do is please instructive.
Jeremy Lesniak (16:50.563)
Thank
Jeremy Lesniak (17:00.578)
Hmm.
Jeremy Lesniak (17:04.768)
Yeah, you're an instructor now and how long have you been teaching? Okay, so long enough that your school is one or the other because they seem to all be one or the other. You have a lot of kids drop as they become teenagers or it becomes their social group and you retain many of them.
Gus Rogers (17:11.982)
since 2010, so it's that 15 years.
Jeremy Lesniak (17:34.794)
And so what I find interesting is anybody who starts training at that adolescent age and they keep going because it's statistically it's uncommon. What was it about how martial arts fit into your life? That you said, you know, this is my thing, or at least it's going to be or was it maybe I'm making an assumption that I shouldn't be. Did you you kept going?
Gus Rogers (18:01.646)
Not making this up. It quickly became my thing because up until that point, I don't think I really had a thing. This is a sidebar or whatever, but when I was three years old, had meningitis, which often at that time, early eighties killed a lot of kids. And the chances of me surviving were very small. And I had like 27 fits and a stroke within 24 hours. So had major, major brain damage that...
Jeremy Lesniak (18:09.826)
Mmm.
Jeremy Lesniak (18:16.354)
Hmm.
Gus Rogers (18:28.908)
Obviously, I don't know what I was like before because very few people have. But my mom, the way my mom describes it to me is like she said, like you just reset. Like you had all these skills up until this age. And then when you had the brain damage, it just went right back to being like, I don't know, babe. I have very little memory of it. So I have to listen to it. But she's got drawings of before and after. And it's like two people, two different people drew them. So, for example, I was dyspraxic. I didn't get picked for teams. I was very clumsy. So.
Jeremy Lesniak (18:44.96)
in this meeting. Okay.
Gus Rogers (18:55.406)
these sort of social things that a lot of kids do outside, like riding a bike and I couldn't do those things. So I didn't have a thing outside of school that I really did that well, or like what you talk about in that social group. So when I did martial arts and I found my group who wanted to smash each other in the face all the time for fun, I really resonated that because for the first time in my life, I went, oh my God, this is really difficult. I'm finding it really hard. But if I...
Jeremy Lesniak (19:00.609)
Hmm.
Gus Rogers (19:23.374)
keep working on it and I do my push-ups and I do my stretches every day, I can get good at this. And I remember the first grade that I had, they gave out like a most improved award. And I don't even know why I got it. My mom said she was watching me from the side and she said, well, the lad you were fighting was five years older than you and you just actually wailed on him. like three out of the four judges were just watching you. They weren't even watching the rest of the test. They were just watching me wail. This guy was much, much bigger than me. Cause I told you that was what I was used to. was used to.
being against adults and stuff. So when I was up against another kid of a similar age, it just felt easy. And then this translated into school where in school I was always the kid who would try and cut corners and try and finish the homework as quick as that possible so I can go back to whatever it is I wanted to do. And then martial arts taught me that even if I didn't like something and I hated it, if I worked hard at it and if I did my best, I would get more out of it. So it had a massive effect on me throughout my entire life.
Jeremy Lesniak (19:54.422)
Hmm.
Jeremy Lesniak (20:21.472)
Hmm. Wow. Okay. So you go through school, you come out of school, do you go on to university or what's your path from there?
Gus Rogers (20:32.576)
Again, it's not as clear cut as that because I trained for five years under that instructor and then he had to retire because of a really nasty knee injury. So he retires. I have Arschgut-Schlatter's disease. So my knees are killing from training. I love training, but my knees are killing. And I'm going to physios and the physios keep saying to me, well, when does it hurt? I'm like, when I do tang-sut-o, they were like, why don't you just not do it? And I go, that's not happening. But when he retires and then the next person who takes over the club.
I have nothing against her, but she was only nine months ahead of me in terms of rank. And I was just turning to that age at 18 where was like, I don't have a car, I don't have a job. These things are getting more difficult. You wanna do like kid things like playing bands and other things. So I left all martial arts for five years. So when I went to university, martial arts wasn't part of my life. And I thought I'd finished it because again, when you're 18, you get your black belt, go, done that, that was cool.
You I did the thing that everyone says is really difficult. I did it. And you don't you don't realize at 18 that that's just like getting your driver's license. You don't realize that that's the that's just like, you know, you've just you've just got your driver's license. Now you need to go learn stuff. But I didn't realize that. I didn't have the instructor who I had grown this connection with to guide me. And I just I just left. So that's that's how it happened. Wasn't.
Jeremy Lesniak (21:35.5)
the box.
Jeremy Lesniak (21:44.802)
Mm.
Jeremy Lesniak (21:57.292)
So you go off to university and you said you took a five year absence. So it always interests me why people go back. What brought you back into training?
Gus Rogers (22:09.42)
the most random conversation and again, yeah.
Jeremy Lesniak (22:11.572)
It usually is. It's been doing this for 10 years and what tends to happen, and I'm curious if this is at all your story, your time away from martial arts, start to, hmm, maybe you watch a movie, you're like, I do kind of miss that. And you remember, you know, those were some pretty good days. But it's rarely just the memories that get you to go back.
It's, it's, I want to put my kid in. A friend of mine wants to start and I figured I'd go with them, right? There's there's almost always some external catalyst. So what was yours?
Gus Rogers (22:52.91)
So I believe in Carl Jung's theory of Jungian synchronicity where coincidence, fate, all these things, they can be meaningless if that's what you think of them. Or if you find meaning in them, they do have meaning. So I ran into a guy I didn't run into once outside of the Dojang. He would have been a white belt, orange belt when I left. And I ran into him, I go, Dave, how's it going? Nice to see you. Start talking. I'm like, you still training? He's like, yeah. He's like, I'm almost going for my black belt. I was like, Dave, that's great. He's like, my daughter's into it now. I go, Dave, that's great.
He's like, do you do any martial arts? I was like, nah, I haven't done any since I left. And he's like, how's your knee? I was like, well, it's fine, because I don't do any exercise. So it's absolutely fine, like the physios told me to do. And then he said that, he said, I should come back. And I was like, oh, why is that? And he's like, well, because when I started, I used to look at you on the front of the line and look up to you. And you inspired me to train harder. And I was like, you're bound to have guys like that now. He's like, no, no, no, it's me on the front line now. It's not good enough.
Jeremy Lesniak (23:29.218)
You
Gus Rogers (23:51.47)
He said, you you should come back. We need you back at the club. And I just didn't believe him. So I almost went out of curiosity and I took my brother along. I was like, we could go together, be a bit of fun. And my brother came back with me for a bit, but he was like, he didn't want to do the belts and everything. He liked martial arts, but he was like, I'm done with the belts and all that stuff. I just want to, that's what I do, martial arts and stuff. I was like, that's fine. And I went back and I went back for a year in my regular clothes. And then the master who'd kind of taken over the club at that time.
After about a year he reinstated my black belt and that's when I got back into it. But it was all random and it was all very very, like you say, happenstance.
Jeremy Lesniak (24:30.695)
What were those first few classes going back like?
Gus Rogers (24:33.006)
so hard the first year was so hard because my brain kept telling me I remembered so much it was so weird how much I remembered it was all like muscle memory to me and my brain kept telling me I could do stuff and then my body ate so much and obviously when I trained when I was a kid you just made a rubber when you're a kid so you just train you wake up the next day you don't even need to stretch you don't need to eat right anything but I'd gone back and I put on some weight and I hadn't exercised at all so and I didn't know how to take care of myself
So I remember waking up with these intense cramps like in the backs of my legs and I'd be limping around university going like, was, I'm never just looking at me strange and I'll be gone. It was literally like the scene in Fight Club where Norton's walking around and he's just got the black eyes and the bruised. I was just like, this hurts so much. And yeah, it was, it was a painful, coming back into it. But I think everyone in the club, because like most of the people I train with weren't there anymore. Most of the people in the club just looked at me and went,
Who is this guy? Like I remember one of the things that people would often say to me as I'd been that background, they go, I want to jump kick like you jump kick. And I was like, what do you mean? And they were like, no one jump kicks like you. And I'm going, I don't understand. Like this is how I was taught. And whatever happened in the time I was away, like five years, you know, seems like a long time when you're a kid, but now is, you know, when you're older, five years is nothing. So I'm like, what happened?
how could things have changed so differently from the time I left? There was definitely like a big change and the only thing I can say is because it had a different instructor like I was talking before different instructor different way of teaching didn't emphasize maybe jump kicks as much and then I had this skill that everyone was like I don't know how you do that and I go I don't know I just always done it like that
Jeremy Lesniak (26:19.657)
You brought up knee stuff. And I've got some knee stuff, you know, which peaked for me actually probably right about that same age that you were going back. was 23, 24, and I wasn't able to walk downstairs. I had to walk down backwards because they were so bad. And it set me on a journey.
Gus Rogers (26:22.158)
Thank
Jeremy Lesniak (26:44.428)
And what was the name of, you mentioned a condition.
Gus Rogers (26:47.502)
Osberg splatters disease. It's when your bones grow truth too fast for your muscles So like I said, I was a kid who was spurting I was very tall for my age and obviously I was doing all this high-impact jumping low stances on a hard floor Didn't know any different, know It didn't look after myself or or do rehab or anything like that and the physios like I tell you at the time weren't much help So that was it so once I got my adult skeleton at like 21
Jeremy Lesniak (26:52.651)
Okay.
Gus Rogers (27:15.086)
my muscles, my bones were growing as much as they were gonna grow. So it kind of settled in, but I'd already done the damage when I was younger. So I, like yourself, went on a journey. I went on a journey to fix my knees. Like one of the things I've never been able to do is run very far. I'd run like a mile or two and I'd just be like, my knees are dead. And over the years, I tried to look after myself by doing more yoga, more loaded mobility so I can take my joints through a range of motion and...
Jeremy Lesniak (27:33.527)
Mm.
Gus Rogers (27:43.598)
to be able to do things like pistol squats and things that I've kind of trained myself to do. So in 2020, when we were all locked down, I taught myself how to run. And now I've run like a half marathon in my forties, which I'd never been able to run before in my life. So I just try and tell people, everyone's different and I'm not a doctor, but if you really, really concentrate on stuff, like I was telling earlier, you can get good at it. You just gotta, like you say, go on a journey to fix yourself.
Jeremy Lesniak (27:47.765)
Nice.
Jeremy Lesniak (27:55.074)
That was great. Awesome.
Jeremy Lesniak (28:08.586)
Yeah, now the reason I brought all that up is because as you know, as I'm sure just about everybody in the audience knows, so many people think that they can't start training because something right. They've got some injury, they have some chronic condition that they they have, you know, an amputation there in a wheelchair, right? And not every school is able to accommodate every physical limitation.
But most of them can accommodate most limitations. And I'm going to guess that you have some better responses for people who say, I don't know that I can do that. I have bad knees. have a bad back, bad ankle, you know, whatever. What is it you tell people? Because they probably hear about, you teach martial arts and they're interested in and you can tell they're interested. I get this all the time. Yeah, I can't because right. What do you say to them?
Gus Rogers (29:08.366)
So my hashtag on most of the things I post is hashtag martial arts for all. I think martial arts can help so many people in so many ways. And again, I don't know if your audience knows, but I do a lot of work with people with autism and other additional needs. And one story I'm gonna say, because I know the student likes to listen to the podcasts I do. We had a student who was in his late 50s and he used to be a marathon runner, but he'd done something to his...
his heel in his Achilles tendon where the doctor said, you'll never run again.
he comes in and I do a couple sessions and I say look don't do that don't do this two seconds I'm just gonna cough sorry he comes in and I say don't worry about that don't worry about jumping don't worry about running we can do this we can do that we can do this but my theory was like myself the more you use it the more you'll loosen up the joint and the more you can move it and now the same student is testing for his brown belt next month
and he's gonna do like a flying sidekick over the two things and he's been to the Himalayas and he can run now and everything in his late 50s. And that's just one story of one person I've worked with.
Jeremy Lesniak (30:18.956)
That's great.
Yeah, you know, I think quite often, whether that we're talking about martial arts or really anything in life, we have this perception of what the basic level looks like. Because that's our, know, from TV or movies, right? Or, you know, friends talking or anything. But the basic level of that is probably much simpler. And
I think we all tend to forget, especially because of social media now, that you gotta screw up a lot of things a lot of times before you even get to that level.
And if you're willing to do that, right? And so right now I'm not talking to the audience for martial arts purposes. I'm encouraging you to take that concept to the rest of your life. Because I see so many martial artists that are successful in the rest of their lives. But they've forgotten that it's their martial arts approach that brought them there. And if they apply that to anything, they can be successful.
Gus Rogers (31:27.95)
So do you know about the four stages of learning?
and unconscious incompetence. You don't know that you can't do it. So that's stage one of everyone. And then stage two is very quick. So I always use driving as the example. So you have level one of driving. When you look at driving, it looks easy. So that's your unconscious incompetence. You don't know how hard it is. When you start learning to drive, it's the conscious incompetence. Suddenly you go, oh, I can't do this. I suck at this. This is really hard.
Jeremy Lesniak (31:32.32)
Remind me.
Mm-hmm.
Jeremy Lesniak (31:58.786)
Yeah.
Gus Rogers (31:59.436)
And then when you're learning to drive is conscious competence, right? You're driving, but you're driving like this. You're driving like, my God, I got to move. I got to move this. Like you're driving like not naturally at all. And then when you've been driving for like a year, 10 years, however long you are doing unconscious competence, you were doing it without thinking. And that is martial arts. That is everything.
Jeremy Lesniak (32:19.786)
Yeah. You mentioned you do some work in the autism space. Can you talk about that?
Gus Rogers (32:25.089)
Yes, yeah sure. So my brother and my father were on the spectrum. They were high functioning, but it was especially my younger brother. It was a learning lesson for me because he had many issues as well as his autism, but he had to drop out of school. He was a hermit for many, many years. And after a certain time, I was like, I really want to help my brother.
And because I was so outgoing, I talked a bit before about my bands and everything, and my brother had really good singing voice. And it got to a point where we were looking for a singer and I selflessly went, well, my brother's a pretty good singer, but he won't come out of the house. So I would sort of make him and trick him into coming out and doing all these things that he didn't want to do. And I would not in a mean way or not in a nasty way or not in a manipulative way, but I would force him out of his comfort zone to become comfortable, if that makes sense.
Like I would go like you're gonna do this and for the first couple of times you're gonna hate it But you know, like when you say people to try a food that's got a like something like kimchi or something that goes like it's got a really specific taste But once you've tried it a couple of times you get used to it then you're okay with it It was like that all the time with him and now My brother is one of the most successful people I know and he doesn't need any help from anyone But I have a theory that again, like I don't know if he obviously some to him as well But if I wasn't dragging him out the house when we were kids going
do this, let's go, no excuses, we gotta do this. If I wasn't so forceful with him, he wouldn't do anything. And I have a theory now in mainstream education, I can only talk about this country because it's the only one I know, but they have a policy now of like successful kids, you go in the higher sets, you get these great marks. Kids who are awkward or not the fastest at learning, we're gonna put you in this side room where you're gonna do like remedial stuff and we're never gonna push you. And then that doesn't help them develop at all.
Jeremy Lesniak (34:03.852)
you
Gus Rogers (34:21.632)
So in my autistic class, works like this. When I meet the person, I have a half hour one-to-one assessment. And I have YouTube videos about this, of my method and everything. But from that assessment, I'm able to go like, do you need private one-to-one lessons? Will you be better suited in what I call my ASD, TSD, small class of maximum eight students with lots of support? Or will you be able to function in a regular class fine? With just some knowledge from myself. And I've gone through this process where from privates to small sessions to grades,
Jeremy Lesniak (34:39.659)
Hmm.
Gus Rogers (34:50.882)
has worked so well and I can only talk about the students who stayed with me. Like I can't talk about any of students who haven't stayed with me for various reasons because I don't see them. But it's not only the success in the classroom, it's the success in their regular lives. So a student I talk about often, because he was the first student I ever worked with, a student, Daniel, I started working with him in 2019. When he came to me, he was the kid in the room who couldn't take any noise, you couldn't touch him and he was afraid of everything. And...
Jeremy Lesniak (34:57.088)
Right.
Gus Rogers (35:21.012)
He came to me because he couldn't do a regular class. I started working with him and a lot of these methods that I now do a standard practice I made around my interactions with him because he was my first student and now this year he came to the martial arts show with us and he performed on a stage in front of hundreds of people doing kicks and breaking boards and all this stuff that if you saw him six years ago you go if you did that to a kid you're torturing him
Jeremy Lesniak (35:24.738)
Mm-hmm.
Jeremy Lesniak (35:33.44)
So, yeah.
Gus Rogers (35:49.41)
But because I built him up slowly over the years, I think he can do anything now and he's thriving in school now and he's doing so well for himself. And again, it's just one example.
Jeremy Lesniak (36:00.364)
Right, so I'd like to talk about that example for a moment. If we compare, what did you say his name was, Daniel? Okay, if we think about Daniel at the beginning, I would imagine his, if we were to chart out his progress, it's maybe the specific steps aren't the same as everyone else's, but the general path is probably pretty similar.
Gus Rogers (36:06.253)
done.
Jeremy Lesniak (36:25.836)
Where's your comfort level? Let's challenge it a little bit. Let's find a way to do it in a way that feels safe. you're, because you said you were starting one-on-one with him, you're constantly looking for where can I challenge him? And maybe it's different day by day, but making him feel safe enough, you know, providing some comfort in some aspects and just lather, rinse, repeat.
and eventually you build up enough trust maybe you can challenge him a little bit more from time to time. Did it look like that?
Gus Rogers (36:59.736)
So our motto is build confidence, add adversity. That's not just for autism students, that's my whole mantra on teaching martial arts. I think if you have a confident person, you can teach them 10 times more than if you have someone who's afraid of everything. So it's always trying to find these drills, these games, these exercises to get them into the highest stage of like, yes, I can do anything. And then when we're up there, you go, well, now I'm gonna check you this little challenge here and maybe you're failing there.
But a very simple thing with Daniel the other day, he's a great student, he does so well. But he would do this thing when he couldn't get something straight away. It's just like a tick or a voice, he'd go, ugh, like that. You could just see him get set. And I was literally showing him how to do the basics of a 540 hook. That's how good he's got now. He's learning these kicks that I would never teach any students. Yeah, I know.
Jeremy Lesniak (37:47.244)
Okay, hold on. For those of you out there who may not spend a lot of time with spinning techniques, jump spinning techniques, 540 is one and a half rotations off the ground.
Gus Rogers (37:59.362)
Yeah, yeah, it's really hard. Like it's not part of us, all of us, but he was trying to learn this kick that I do. And I said, said, Daniel, it's going to be really hard, buddy. All we're going to do is jump, spin and land on our same leg. That's all we're doing today. And before, if he failed, he would be like, and we did it like a bunch of times and he didn't do it once. And when he landed it, he was so happy. He literally jumped up in the air and like pumped his fist. He was so happy. And that's his journey. It's just...
Jeremy Lesniak (38:07.404)
Yeah.
Jeremy Lesniak (38:25.698)
It's awesome. Yeah.
Gus Rogers (38:27.91)
Doesn't do this tick that was like I never have a go at him for it But I would just talk to him and go like Daniel if you do this in front of another person They're going to think that you mean it at them Does that make sense? I would talk to him like the social Interactions of it like of how other people will perceive it I say it doesn't bother me that you do this But other people might think that you are frustrated with them So you have to be very careful of how we are in front of other people
Jeremy Lesniak (38:39.126)
Mm.
Gus Rogers (38:54.424)
And this stuff like that I talk to him about all the time and he really takes it on board. And it's so great now because this ASD class that he helped build, he now comes to the class and is one of my helpers in the class. And we had another lad, I started working with him a couple of months back and he did one to one to me and he was great. He didn't like to talk much. He was really shy. And I talked to him about, well, you know, now is the time for the next stage. I'd really like you to come to the class.
and he just burst into tears and I was like, oh my God, didn't want to make the kid so scared he burst into tears. So I was like, how can I fix this? I want to challenge him, but he's not ready. I was like, I'm going to bring in Daniel, because they were the same age. I'm going to bring in Daniel to be with you in these private sessions. So you have like a partner. And then when you're ready, you come to the class and Daniel will be your partner in the class. And after like two, three weeks, this other kid, Liam, he didn't need Daniel anymore in the class and now he's in on his own.
and can do everything and he needs no help at all. But a couple of months ago, he was like, he was in tears just in the very thought of me asking him to come to the class, not making him go to the class, just saying, you know, Liam, you might want to come to the class, like, in tears. And now that's gone.
Jeremy Lesniak (40:05.226)
Yeah. You know, we have we have a teacher training division at Whistlekick and not this past week and the week before we ran one of our level one sessions and we've done this material so many times. I've been in these courses so many times that that I come away with continuing to get better myself. But each time there's some aspect of it that sits with me a little bit with a little bit more gravity that I contemplate. And what came away from me?
for me a couple of weeks ago was this idea that we tell instructors, have to assume people want to be there. And the things that I'm hearing from you are twofold. goes with that. It's you're assuming these students want to be there in a way that I think some instructors when they're working with autism spectrum or perhaps some other something else that makes the learning process unconventional.
I'll group it in that way.
Jeremy Lesniak (41:10.678)
But then also you have to assume that they can do it and that working together you can find a way for them to do it. If you assume they want to be there and you assume that they can get there, no matter how much time it takes, no matter what you've got, you might need 900 ways to try it. But there's always a way. And to me, that's the beauty of martial arts.
Gus Rogers (41:33.71)
martial arts is problem solving. That's why I tell people it is. Martial arts is the best form of problem solving.
Jeremy Lesniak (41:35.563)
Yeah.
Jeremy Lesniak (41:39.01)
I like that.
Jeremy Lesniak (41:45.43)
How has getting better with this demographic of students changed the way you teach your general class? If that's an appropriate term.
Gus Rogers (41:55.534)
So the idea is that these students, you know, do join the class. whereas five years ago, I might have one autistic student period, now I have an autistic student in every class. And someone who's come up through that process, because I've been doing it the last four years, yeah, there'll be someone in that class. And sometimes it's, you know, one of lovely things I love about my students is that no one has any judgment for anyone.
Jeremy Lesniak (42:00.599)
Mm-hmm.
Jeremy Lesniak (42:08.898)
Right.
Gus Rogers (42:25.774)
I haven't told them this it hasn't been brought up. It's just something that's being cultivated naturally and I'm so pleased with this I mean again, this is not trying not to blow my own horn here, I'm talking about, know the things I'm proud of like we have a tiny tiny program and I've been at the martial arts schools that you turn up a bit early and there's a kids class going on before and I'll go to these classes and I think it's the instructor of the club, but the kids are running around like lunatics and It just it just makes my skin crawl. I'm like, can't handle it. I can't handle it. I can't I just look away just look away
because in my club, every time the children walk into the class, they just start stretching and they talk very softly to each other. And we have like zero policy, not allowed in the classroom running around, don't worry, I'm gonna get you to sweat your guts out running around. But before the class, you sit, you stretch and there's no sudden movements or anything because we are warming up gently and that's something I've cultivated. And now I don't have to repeat it because the kids, even though they're five or six, they already know it. See what I mean? And it's the same thing.
with this accepting everyone in the class, the class accepts everyone that they're to have problems with it. So everyone's at everyone's level. And this is being cultivated over years and years. And it goes back to what my instructor did with me. So the way it's changed my teaching is I want to bring everyone on board. And this is how to find everyone to come on board. So I can see that like two or three students are struggling with a certain drill I have in mind. And I'm expecting to go at like, like a fast pace, like, like freeway pace class.
and I find that like two or three students are struggling with it. So I could stop the whole lesson and I go, right, we're going right back to the very basic to help out these two students. And then when these two students can get this, they'll be on this fast track with us and we can all go forward together. But if we leave these two students behind, they're just gonna keep being left behind, left behind. So it's about having the courage and the time and the patience to go, no, it's okay to bring the class to a grinding halt to help everyone else forward. Are you okay with this? You know, kind of thing.
Jeremy Lesniak (44:21.324)
Yeah, it's a team approach. Yeah, yeah, when we're talking about the younger kids and the running around, there's something, and there's probably an actual term for this. I call it institutionalized culture, that if you have enough people that buy into a certain culture, if you add people slowly, they are, this isn't always a bad word, indoctrinated into that culture.
Gus Rogers (44:48.824)
Yeah.
Jeremy Lesniak (44:49.802)
and they get with the program. like, this is what I do. And I think a lot of schools don't.
build that intentional, that institutionalized culture with effort. If you get it right, it's hard to screw up. If you don't get it right, it's hard to improve.
Gus Rogers (45:09.057)
Yes.
Jeremy Lesniak (45:10.432)
Yeah. Now, I know you wrote a book. know nothing about in my notes I have. You wrote a book. That's all I have here in front of me. Of course I do.
Gus Rogers (45:17.71)
Okay, you want to hear the title of the book. It's a martial arts book. I need to this first because a of people get confused, but it's called Recipes Do Not Make Delicious Meals.
from the front cover it looks like a cookbook.
Jeremy Lesniak (45:32.652)
Okay. Okay. Okay. I'm, I'm, I have no idea where this is going. And that's exciting to me. That's fine. I like when that happens. Okay. Tell me more.
Gus Rogers (45:39.694)
That's fine. That's fine. No, again, like with the photos behind me, I do things a little differently. Maybe the way I teach, I teach little differently. Maybe the way I, spar maybe a little differently people. It's the same, same thing with this book. I have read many martial arts books and they're often with a guy or a girl punching or kicking and they've got the angriest meanest face ever. And I was just like that those books are fine, but I'm not adding to that culture. Like I want my book.
Jeremy Lesniak (45:47.062)
Yeah, of course.
Gus Rogers (46:09.496)
to be noticed, I guess, for the right reasons and just like stand out a little bit different. So we've talked about driving earlier, the same with martial arts. Now, again, all martial arts are taught like this, but from my traditional background, tang shou, karate, you learn these kata forms, you do these up and down basics, you do these things called one steps or self-defense scenarios, and they have very little to do with each other, the way I was taught and the way a lot of schools are taught.
and one of the things that I realized over the years teaching was that this wasn't the way that the old masters trained. The form was literally we're going to write down all the moves we did in a very like shorthand way. So like if you're a chef and you've made this amazing meal you'll shorthand down well how did I make this amazing meal I better shorthand it down and that's passed down to someone else that's passed down as well. But this shorthand on its own means nothing. It's absolutely meaningless unless you give it the context.
In my book, I've tried to give these forms and these ways of drilling, like we were talking earlier about at white belt, it needs to be soft and easy and then build confidence and adversity. You can't keep doing the same one steps or self-defense scenarios to white belts as you're given to black belts. Otherwise to me, it's pointless. So the idea is that everything you learn starts with a form. That's your basic, that never changes. That's always the same. That's the blueprint. You have five applications and they're in the order of the form. So one, you don't have
too many to remember and if you can't remember one of them it's the next bit of the form so you don't have to worry about order or anything like that and then we're trying to build a principle so all these movements are connected and the students are trying to learn something overall because what's going to help you in self-defense what's going to help you to fight principles not techniques you can show a million techniques and still not realize a principle you need to realize the principles that's where it's drilled over and over again and then what do do at the end you pressure test it so every single belt has a pressure test
Jeremy Lesniak (47:53.826)
Right.
Gus Rogers (48:06.828)
Where at the start it's just someone grabs you with a bit more intensity. You hardly notice it's a pressure test. But by the end you're in a full fight with someone who doesn't know anything about your side of the drill and it's a lot closer to what I would call real violence or real self-defense, but it's still controlled so there's not injuries. No one's getting broken bones or anything like that. And one of the things that I've tried to do in my book that a lot of people have told me is quite original is every single section has a QR code that links to a video.
Jeremy Lesniak (48:34.402)
Hmm.
Gus Rogers (48:35.532)
so can watch the movement. it's not just starting pictures and thing you watch the video, but not only that you can comment on the video and actually talk to me as the author. So if you're stuck with something, if you're going, this isn't working me because I'm a shorter person and it's a bigger person. What do I do? I can talk back to you and I can link you to other videos and it can be a living book instead of here's the book, just live with it. the pictures are in order out of order or whatever. There's a mistake. You just got to train it with that mistake.
Jeremy Lesniak (48:37.582)
cool.
Jeremy Lesniak (48:48.544)
Yeah.
Jeremy Lesniak (49:03.798)
This sounds great. actually a lot of the concepts that you're talking about mimic, I shouldn't say mimic because that would suggest that you got it for me. You've been teaching longer than I have, but it's similar.
Gus Rogers (49:11.246)
They should. Good martial is universal. This is my instructor said. Good martial is universal. If you're all doing the same thing, we're good. If you're the only one doing something, it's probably terrible.
Jeremy Lesniak (49:23.382)
But what you're doing, what I'm doing, some of this approach of...
Jeremy Lesniak (49:29.986)
I'm really big on I mean you you you expressed it very elegantly build confidence at adversity is that Right and what I'm hearing is that's an incremental process Whereas in most martial arts schools We go zero to sixty here's a new block here's a new kick here's a new punch and We get the technique right
Gus Rogers (49:37.87)
That's it, it's on our T-shirts,
Jeremy Lesniak (49:57.632)
And then we drill it on our own. Maybe we drill it hard and fast on our own. And then we're expected to use it in a free-form scenario at a moderate to high level of intensity. That's too much. That's adding adversity. That's immersive adversity. And so am I getting it right that you and I are on the same page, that that's not? Right.
Gus Rogers (50:18.926)
Of of course. But that is what happens. Either there's no adversity and the student becomes bored, or there's what happened to me when I was a kid where sparring straight away against bigger opponents and you're just going to lose and it's going to be stress. You need to reach that flow state where time just seems to magically go very quickly because you're enjoying it but you're being challenged. You're not being, like I was saying before, the children with autism being put in the corner going, oh, Jamie won't be able to handle this. You need to have someone pushing you.
Jeremy Lesniak (50:34.302)
Yes.
Gus Rogers (50:47.96)
but it has to be done on an individual level because you can be the same age, the same belt, the same build, but student A is ready for the pressure test and student B you're not ready. And sometimes students have a hard time because they're comparing themselves. And I just look at those students and go like, look, you're doing it wrong by comparing yourself. No two people are the same and no one has more value. It's just your journey is your speed and my journey is the speed. Like I tell people all time, the five years I had off probably best thing for me.
because probably if I'd have carried on being a black belt, I'd probably be in a jerk, because I'd be really good in my prime, just like beating all the other people who were lower than me and thinking that's what martial arts was. It was when I came back, had to be humble and stand at the back of the class and go like, I'm the white belt for you.
Jeremy Lesniak (51:25.206)
Yeah, one of the best.
Jeremy Lesniak (51:30.848)
Yeah, and that's such a good example of this is this is not mine, but I've repeated it often. Martial arts is a individual pursuit done in a group setting. And so what you just said, you're standing in the back of the class. You're in your street clothes. That was part of your individual journey in that moment, but it works better because we're around each other because we're learning from each other. We're learning from the instructor from the front of the room. You know you're learning from your students and.
I love that the dynamic of that environment. I've said for probably the entirety of this show, arts, traditional martial arts is about to take this revolutionary step. And I didn't know what it was, but I talked to enough people that were asking good questions. said, something is coming. And I think that maybe this isn't the full transition that we make. But I think this at least leads it off. It's what you're talking about here, this idea that we can make this
more efficient incremental progress in an individual way. In my school, we have some numbers, things go zero to five, just about everything. And watching for that building comfort, adding adversity component, no matter what the individual needs are. you need a little more adversity here. Let's give you a little more. Let's give you a little more and keep you progressing, but also keep you comfortable.
Cool. Where can people get that book?
Gus Rogers (53:04.502)
So at the moment you can buy it from my website I am looking into other publishing options of you know, maybe selling it on Amazon or Getting it published so can sell it in like local shops But the idea was because we just had the martial art show last May It was just like look get the book out see if people like it and then we'll go further So it was a big job getting the book done. I self published it with a local company Yes, but I'm I'm very I'm very pleased with the result. I had a good team of people
Jeremy Lesniak (53:25.494)
Books are hard. Books are really hard. People forget. They don't know. Cool. great.
Gus Rogers (53:32.414)
Helped me make it I'm sure Jess and Mike because at the end the book wouldn't have happened and other people who helped me But the book is done People have read it and really enjoyed it So I'm happy now that it it is good because again when you have you're sitting on a project for three years You can just go is anyone gonna like this. It's okay So I'm really pleased that people like it and now that people like it we're gonna look at pushing it further But again, I'll give you the link to the book that if people can
people are interested they can buy it.
Jeremy Lesniak (54:02.644)
Nice, yeah, and of course we'll put that in the description, but is it an easy enough one to say that will help you? The link to the website.
Gus Rogers (54:09.698)
What's that?
yeah, it's just www.HOVTSD.com is the name of my Dojang. Yeah. Sorry, I didn't understand what I was calling you. Is it easy? It's easy to buy. You just click all the buttons.
Jeremy Lesniak (54:17.587)
Easy. Rejovtsd.com. That's okay. That's okay. We'll put it in the description. Make it easy for people, but...
Nice, awesome. since we're already talking about those things, how do people get a hold of you? Do you do social media? Got an email address you want to share, any of that?
Gus Rogers (54:38.956)
Yeah, yeah, again, we can share on the show notes, but I have a YouTube channel. And again, that's just the name of my Dojang, head of the virus tank show on Instagram and on Facebook, people can reach hold of me. I really love this opportunity to chat because again, when you're in, like I am teaching my Dojang, I don't see people, I don't go many places. So again, if this book is a nice way to say hello to people and just shake people's hand, then it's worth doing because again, like I say, martial arts is great. And I love the adventures from martial arts as well.
Jeremy Lesniak (55:04.342)
Yeah.
Gus Rogers (55:08.79)
I just call it the ongoing adventure and that's the way it is.
Jeremy Lesniak (55:14.37)
This has been fun. I'm gonna I'm gonna hand you the ball back in a moment to close this up, but to the audience Hey, check out the book. Check out the social media. Check out our social media We're at whistle kick check out whistle kick martial arts radio.com sign up for the newsletter check out martial itics Check out guitar. they didn't sponsor this episode, but I still love them and of course If you think all we do at whistle cake is the show you need to go check out whistle cake calm because we do
a of things. I'm not even going to name them. I'm not going to name any of them. I'm going to challenge you to go check out whistlekick.com. That website is constantly changing. So I'll hand the ball back to you now, Gus. How do you want to close us up today? It's been a great chat. I appreciate the time.
Gus Rogers (55:59.608)
So one of things I keep forgetting to talk about when I do these shows is talk about the association that I'm affiliated with. I'm independent now, I'm with the British Combat Association, they do all our legal things, but I'm affiliated with the Tank Shodow Training Initiative and they are trying to revolutionize the way that people train more together. So they're not saying you have to join us or they have to be a part exclusively with them, but they have a lot of training materials out there and they're just getting started trying to grow.
Jeremy Lesniak (56:08.449)
Okay.
Gus Rogers (56:29.762)
So if you're interested in the kind of things that I've been talking about, or you're into tankshido, or maybe you're in like a toxic martial art group where things are a bit restrictive for you, you know, these are very common things that I've found over the years.
Jeremy Lesniak (56:46.016)
I'm laughing because there are a number of those people who are watching this right now.
Gus Rogers (56:49.59)
Exactly. So I'm just gonna put my hand on my heart and tell people about the the tanks your training initiative is a Great. I'm not even gonna say organization. I'm just gonna say training club Where they are doing some great things and I'm trying to help people help me a lot I went to I came over to America last year test my master's belt the best week with them training and learning and hanging out with them So yeah, I just I just thought I'd leave it up because I always keep forgetting
But they really helped me and I again, want martial arts to be able to do martial arts the way they want to do it and to be free to express themselves and not feel like they're held to a club or a standard way. It's just not comfortable for them because again, like you were just alluded to, there's a lot of it out there and I don't think there should be any of it out there.