Episode 1038 - Sensei Melvin Wells
In this episode Jeremy sits and chats with Melvin Wells about his training in Jeet Kune Do, the influence of Bruce Lee and his training with Benny “The Jet” Urquidez.
Sensei Melvin Wells - Episode 1038
SUMMARY
In this engaging conversation, Sensei Melvin Wells Jr. shares his extensive journey through martial arts, influenced heavily by Bruce Lee and his teachings. He discusses his early experiences in martial arts, the importance of traditional training, and the evolution of Jeet Kune Do.
Sensei Wells emphasizes the significance of mentorship, character development, and the value of competition at any age. He reflects on the impact of traditional martial arts on his life and encourages younger generations to embrace these foundational practices.
TAKEAWAYS
Melvin Wells Jr. is a Bruce Lee disciple and a practitioner of Jeet Kune Do.
He lost 120 pounds to train with Sensei Benny.
He considers himself a stripped-down martial artist, valuing all arts.
Traditional martial arts provide a strong foundation for all martial artists.
Competition is a vital part of training and personal growth.
The martial arts mindset has helped him avoid trouble throughout life.
Every martial art has something valuable to offer.
Mentorship is crucial in martial arts training.
Training with younger practitioners keeps him motivated and in shape.
He encourages younger generations to explore traditional martial arts.
CHAPTERS
00:00 Introduction
02:48 The Influence of Bruce Lee and Early Training
05:11 Finding Sensei Benny and Weight Loss Journey
08:09 Training Philosophy and Jeet Kune Do
10:50 Cross-Training and the Evolution of Martial Arts
13:36 Character Development in Martial Arts
16:07 Mentorship and Learning from Younger Generations
18:44 Focus on Timing and Adaptation in Training
21:32 Inspiration from Legends and Influences
24:32 The Role of Boxing in Martial Arts
26:01 The Interplay of Martial Arts and Wrestling
26:46 The Impact of Early Martial Arts Training
28:17 The Value of Traditional Martial Arts
31:21 The Role of Competition in Martial Arts
32:52 The Joy of Competing at Any Age
36:28 Lessons from Experience and Age
41:33 Reflections on the Martial Arts Journey
47:43 Introduction to the Conversation
47:44 Exploring Key Themes
To connect with Sensei Melvin Wells:
Instagram: melvinwellsjr_themartialartist
After listening to the episode, it would be exciting for us to know your thoughts about it.
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Show Transcript
Jeremy Lesniak (00:31.8)
Hey, what's going on everybody? Welcome back to another episode of Whistlekick martial arts radio. Today I'm joined by Sensei Melvin Wells. Thanks for being here, sir. We're gonna have a good time. To all of you out there, I hope you're having a good time. I hope that this show makes you happy. I hope that our mission to connect, educate, and entertain all of you resonates. I hope it matters. And I hope that you're spreading that message by sharing the show with other people.
And if you haven't already, you really should sign up for the newsletter. Whistlekickmoresportsradio.com, up at the top. That's the place you're going to do that. And we don't send you other stuff. We just tell you about the show. We give you behind the scenes. We tell you when the episodes are out. We give you direct links to watch or listen, write in the emails, make it nice and easy for you. And thanks to everybody out there who has done that. And of course, whistlekick.com for all of the other things that we do as an organization. Melvin, thanks for being here, man.
Melvin Wells Jr (01:24.174)
Thank you for having me. really appreciate you. Definitely.
Jeremy Lesniak (01:29.422)
Absolutely, Yeah, so I See you've got a Bruce Lee hat on If you've Bruce Lee had on showing up to a martial arts podcast I've got to guess there's a reason for that. Does that man mean something to you?
Melvin Wells Jr (01:34.776)
Hahaha
Melvin Wells Jr (01:43.77)
man, I guess a Bruce Lee disciple, I guess you would say. Yes, very much to me. Of course, like many other millions of people, it's the reason, one of the reasons why I started training. And I am a JKD man myself, so I do represent on both ends. That's me.
Jeremy Lesniak (02:06.093)
So I'll ask you, because I'm sure we'll get pretty deep into Bruce Lee and Jeet Kune Do, but I've got to ask you, I've got this theory, and I've only had a couple people break my theory, that the first Bruce Lee movie you watch is your favorite Bruce Lee movie.
Melvin Wells Jr (02:24.173)
not necessarily. I would say maybe the third one, the Way of the Way of the Dragon with the Chuck Norris fights, of course.
Jeremy Lesniak (02:28.383)
No? Okay. All right. So, where is your favorite?
Yeah. Okay. All right. All right.
Melvin Wells Jr (02:38.731)
Definitely.
Jeremy Lesniak (02:41.805)
So when, when, how, why, right? Like, I don't even know the question that I'm asking, but I think you know where I'm trying to go. If we, if we rewind tape here and we go back to your beginning with Bruce Lee, Jeet Kune Do martial arts, et cetera, where's, know, where's the opening scene on, that first episode?
Melvin Wells Jr (03:02.078)
Open and Seen will probably be in the, I would say late 70s, five years old, starting out in the Kachikimbo, shout out to Woody Sims in Vallejo, California, rest in peace, Sifu Imo Batista. They got me started training. Actually, my father put me into the arts after seeing the first Bruce Lee movie.
put me into the arts and from there I just went from Taekwondo, a little bit of Kung Fu and just kept training and training and I'm 56 now and still training, still going at it.
Jeremy Lesniak (03:48.877)
Bye!
You said a few things in there that are kind of interesting, right? So like the mid 70s, you're a little kid and you're training Kajikambo. That's not a common thing that's happening back then. So was it just that this school was near you and they accepted kids or did your father know somebody there? Like how did that happen?
Melvin Wells Jr (03:59.476)
Right.
Melvin Wells Jr (04:12.009)
Actually, my father knew some, the school had a reputation. The initial role of Vallejo California, Contra Kimball Academy had a strong reputation. And that was the court they called the blood and guts era of martial arts, know, no pads when you spar, no nothing, you know, just bones and skin. So I had a good reputation. So, got me started in that. And,
Jeremy Lesniak (04:26.934)
Yeah!
Melvin Wells Jr (04:40.041)
I excelled in it, I loved it a lot and I just kept going. I didn't play any sports, no baseball, basketball, football. I'm just a hardcore martial artist. And I also have to give credit to my older brother. He's my step brother. He didn't live with me, but of course he was my brother and he was also a martial artist. So I would watch him as I was growing up as well. Between him...
Bruce Lee, Muhammad Ali, of course, since then, Yukides. I had a good foundation to go by, to mirror myself after, I would say.
Jeremy Lesniak (05:19.597)
Yeah, so Benny's been on the show, great guy. And to those of you out there, if you haven't checked out that episode, you absolutely should because he shares some good stories in that one.
Melvin Wells Jr (05:30.664)
Oh yeah, yeah, since I've been he's been my sensei for the past, I would say, 19, 20 years now.
Jeremy Lesniak (05:37.293)
Okay, so you know, you know that the story is that and not just that he has a story is he's good storyteller.
Yeah, yeah, and of course a good man. Let's get there. How did you meet him?
Melvin Wells Jr (05:52.678)
Actually, I was in college in 1988-89. It wasn't in Arizona. wasn't a thing that... know, some colleges for people, some people it's not and it wasn't for me. So, you know, reading the magazines, you know, I read that he was in LA. So I decided... I had an uncle that was living in LA, so decided to go out and live with him and find Sensei Benny.
And when I went to LA, I actually landed in Orange County. So Orange County was like an hour from LA. So before I can get to Sensei Benny, I ended up training with Steve Spry on the American Kempo for a couple of years. Then when I was able to actually finally go to get Sensei Benny at the Jets Gym, not the Jets Center, the Jets Center had, he had closed that down by then, but he opened up one called the Jets Gym.
which was just a little bit smaller. And I just found him and went to him and asked if he would train me. And by that time I had discovered a collar's life, meaning drinking, having fun, stuff like that. So I had put on some weight. So before he went for anything, he said, man, you have to lose weight. So I went to see his wife, Sensei Sarah.
which was teaching there as well. She taught really the curriculum for cardiovascular and exercise and stuff like that. So after about a year with her, got the weight down, then I was accepted to be trained by Sensei Beni and I've been with him ever since.
Jeremy Lesniak (07:31.415)
So he just flat out said, I'm not gonna train you until you lose weight.
Melvin Wells Jr (07:35.417)
yeah, definitely, I mean, that's exactly what he told me.
Jeremy Lesniak (07:40.852)
Wow, okay. So this is something that we don't often hear, right? Like within a martial arts context. Often it's come as you are and often it's you're gonna lose weight when you're on the floor. So I'm gonna try to ask a little bit of a delicate question, but you brought it up so hopefully it's okay. Were we talking about a significant amount of weight or was he looking for people who were in fighting shape?
Melvin Wells Jr (08:07.043)
I would say both. He saw that I had potential, you know, because of my previous years of training, but I let myself go. And I think that was a test for him to see how dedicated I was going to be before he put in time to actually train me. So I went through the steps and lost maybe like 120 pounds, something like that. So I lost a tremendous amount of weight.
Jeremy Lesniak (08:34.925)
Okay, all right, so that answers the question. yeah, 120 pounds is a lot. That's like a whole other person. It's a small person, but it's still, that's significant. Okay, all right.
Melvin Wells Jr (08:37.794)
Yeah.
Melvin Wells Jr (08:42.519)
Yes, exactly. Exactly. Yeah, so after I proved that, then I was able to train underneath him.
Jeremy Lesniak (08:51.157)
Okay. And was your motivation for doing that entirely because you wanted to train with him? Would you have lost that weight otherwise, you think?
Melvin Wells Jr (09:00.225)
Well, yes, because I was always a martial artist first. So if I had to, of course I would have lost the weight. But that was a tremendous motivation for one of my heroes to tell me directly to my face, this is what I needed to do for him to take me on and train me as a student. So it was a great, motivation. actually it wasn't hard at all because once you put your mind to do something, it's easy after that.
Jeremy Lesniak (09:31.265)
Yeah, what did that training look like? That's, you know, we might have some folks out there who want to lose some weight and you know, it's one thing to lose a couple pounds. It's another thing to lose over a hundred pounds. What did that training look like?
Melvin Wells Jr (09:42.899)
I was with, like I said, his wife, Sensei Sarah morning class. So we would run three miles every morning, do like maybe an hour of calisthenics, maybe an hour of regular training. Diet wise, I ate nothing but meat. Now back then, that sounded kind of crazy, but now they...
Jeremy Lesniak (10:04.877)
That's right.
Melvin Wells Jr (10:07.219)
It's called the carnivore diet nowadays, but back then he said, eat nothing but meat. And I was like, nothing but meat? What the hell? You know, but it worked, know, nothing but meat and water. Now was it. And just train with a Sensei Sarah was the main person that got me underway. And then after that, then I was able to start training with Sensei Benny.
Jeremy Lesniak (10:30.88)
All right. And where does the Jeet Kune Do come in for you? Is it at this time or did that start beforehand?
Melvin Wells Jr (10:34.505)
Bye!
The JKD started years after the fact when I, actually my first JKD teacher was a rest in peace Sifu Bustilio in Torrance. I trained with him for about a good year. From there, I went to the Nassano Academy for about five, six years. And then the Nassano Academy is a great martial arts academy, just that they don't spar.
And at that time I was with Sensei Benny. Sensei Benny, that's all he was about, was putting the gloves on and getting in the ring and sparring and stuff like that. So I was used to that type of activity. So I waited for, if I say four or five years, then after that, in the sauna, said, you still look like you wanna get in there and go. he directed me towards Coach Eric Paulson.
So I went to train with Eric Paulson. was with Eric Paulson for like five, six years. And he had an MMA team. So he invited me to be on the MMA team. So I was on his MMA team training. He left his team to be taught by Coach Ben Jones. who, Ben Jones went and got his own school, which is called the Den Training Center in Yorba Linda. And that's where I'm at right now with Coach Ben. So I'm still on the MMA team.
And I'm a what 30 years, 35 years older than everybody. You know, these young guys and stuff like that, which is great because they don't take it easy on me, anything like that. Oh, definitely, definitely, definitely, definitely pushing me. I love it, So I'm still there with Coach Ben. That's like home. know, Coach Ben Jones is a great martial artist. I always tell him he doesn't claim it, but I always tell him to tell him that.
Jeremy Lesniak (12:10.038)
Yeah!
Jeremy Lesniak (12:13.985)
Right, they push you, they push you hard.
Melvin Wells Jr (12:30.971)
He's the best JKD fighter that I've ever seen, meaning he has a full game. What I mean by that, he has a full game. Ground game, stand up, anywhere it goes, he can control the situation. Which is what a mainly a JKD is supposed to be able to do, martial artist is supposed to be able to do. I use the term JKD loosely, but I really just mean a total martial artist, because that's what a-
Jeremy Lesniak (12:35.329)
Really?
Melvin Wells Jr (12:59.673)
Cézanne Bruce Lee would always mean by that. Just a total martial artist.
Jeremy Lesniak (13:05.687)
Yeah, and that's one of the interesting things I find. I don't pretend to know anything more about Jeet Kune Do than what I've read, more so from what I've learned from folks that I've talked to on this show.
But there seem to be two kind of split camps. On one hand, you have folks that treat Jikudo almost like a, in a historical context, this is what Bruce Lee taught. And they teach it from wherever they learned it, right? Early in the development, later in the development. And it is a martial arts with a historical context. And I find that really interesting. And then there are other folks.
more like yourself, who take the philosophy of Jeet Kune Do and it sounds like you were a Jeet Kune Do martial artist before you were a Jeet Kune Do martial artist because you talked about all of these different places that you were training and grabbing all of this information and constructing your own personal art. Can you speak to that a little bit?
Melvin Wells Jr (14:02.691)
Exactly.
Melvin Wells Jr (14:13.453)
Basically, actually it happened by accident because before I even really knew what JKD was all about, I was already gravitating to other systems and training. Really, really trying, I wasn't trying to find the ultimate martial arts system. I was trying to find the ultimate me, myself, what would work for me, what I like to do and stuff like that.
I gravitated to the different arts and ended up actually in the MMA world, which is perfect because it involves what I like, which is competition. Some people don't like competition, but I like competition and it involves a different number of arts. When MMA first hit the scene, it was really just wrestling, boxing and Muay Thai. Now it's anything, whatever works.
Whatever arts you have.
Jeremy Lesniak (15:11.117)
Right. These people had a single art. Right? had that, you know, this people looked at as this art versus that art, which, you know, that carries its own set of problems. But yeah, now everybody's just it. I think this is why a lot of people will say Bruce Lee was kind of the original mixed martial artist, because he wanted to grab as many things as possible and roll them into his own game. And you were doing that.
Melvin Wells Jr (15:16.631)
Yeah.
Melvin Wells Jr (15:21.141)
Great.
Jeremy Lesniak (15:41.429)
Earlier than most for sure.
Melvin Wells Jr (15:43.326)
Yo, when I was growing up, seventies, eighties, that was, that was frowned upon. Like I I would tell the guys I train in now, train with now, like the cross training we do now, you couldn't do that. So if he was a Taekwondo guy, he was going to the Kajikima guy, was considered a trader and vice versa. You know, it was.
Jeremy Lesniak (16:01.697)
Which is funny because Kajakembo is already that. It's even in the name.
Melvin Wells Jr (16:04.755)
Right, right, right. It was the weirdest thing. He was boxing, he was considered a trainer. he's the karate guy and whatnot. But nowadays, you know, it's welcome for the cross train, which is great. You know, it's a great transition. It's a great turn. So I like to see that guys can dabble in different disciplines and still respect the disciplines, you know, and then understand that in my personal opinion, all disciplines work. It just depends on who's
using the discipline, when, how you're using it, but it all works. It's definitely all work.
Jeremy Lesniak (16:40.461)
I agree. If it never worked for anyone, wouldn't exist. It would have been selected out at some point. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So when you look at the...
Melvin Wells Jr (16:44.221)
Of not.
Melvin Wells Jr (16:48.542)
Correct, it all works no matter what. Yes,
Jeremy Lesniak (16:58.571)
these years of training and piece to piece to piece to piece. Obviously here you are now and philosophically, if not technique wise, you're referring to yourself as a JKD practitioner. Prior to that, you were younger, what did you call yourself? You because you used
Melvin Wells Jr (17:18.443)
I call them, this is Karate Guy, Kachikimo Guy, Taekwondo Guy. And as a matter of fact, I'm under the umbrella of I could say a JKD practitioner, but I really consider myself just stripped down martial artists, basically. From all the other labels, now I'm back down to just the martial artists, because that's what all boils down to.
Jeremy Lesniak (17:22.807)
for radio.
Melvin Wells Jr (17:43.921)
Cause I respect all the arts. Like I say, every art has something to offer to anybody. It just depends on who's using it and how you're using it.
Jeremy Lesniak (17:55.372)
You and I have that in common for sure. So I've got to imagine that if you're on this MMA team and you've got years of experience and probably far more experience than any of these young guys on this team, you're helping them along. You're helping them. You're working with them. Even if it's not in a formal capacity, what stuff are you taking from your experience and bringing to them?
Melvin Wells Jr (18:25.852)
Mostly, like what Sid said, Benny was always telling me, he was always saying, the kick and the punching I can teach you how to do, that's not a problem. It's your character and how you operate under pressure. That's the main goal. So the main thing I try and get over to the younger guys is your character, how do you handle stuff under pressure.
Jeremy Lesniak (18:37.229)
Hmm.
Melvin Wells Jr (18:51.278)
You know, like I said, the kicking and punching, that's the easy work. You know, you just train and that's easy to do. But how's your character? How are you outside of the dojo? You know, how do you treat people outside of the dojo? And how do you retain the information? And always telling them that not everything works for everybody. You know, I might show you two or three ways how to throw a jab and you might only like one of them, which is fine.
There's no set, quote unquote, a way of doing things. A lot of martial artists think it's only one or two ways to do things, because you're either your sensei or your sifu showed you, and this is the only way. But there's many ways. You just have to venture out and have an open mind.
Jeremy Lesniak (19:43.393)
Right, so what I'm hearing is you're as much of a mentor to these folks as you are a training partner.
Melvin Wells Jr (19:50.006)
try not to be but they call me OG. say, hey OG, how you do this? So I show them what I know and I always tell them, hey man, yeah, if it doesn't work for you, it doesn't work for you, but this is what I do and this is what I know how to do. And maybe you can incorporate it in what you know how to do. And by the way, hey, show me that, whatever you know how to do, show it to me and maybe I can incorporate it, because I still compete in point karate tournaments.
Jeremy Lesniak (19:52.589)
Hmm.
Jeremy Lesniak (19:58.328)
Yeah. Yeah. You look up to you.
Melvin Wells Jr (20:20.087)
So, you know, anything they can show me, I'm willing to learn immediately. know, the guys are great. I have a great team.
Jeremy Lesniak (20:29.293)
That's awesome. That's awesome. when, what I find when someone has the attitude that you do where, you know, they're constantly, what else? How do I round out my game? What aspect of your, if you want to call it game, martial arts, et cetera, where are you focused in developing now? What part are you saying, you know, this is what needs work. I'm curious.
Melvin Wells Jr (20:30.989)
Definitely.
Melvin Wells Jr (20:52.759)
What needs work is probably to, I would say to take care of situation maybe a little bit faster, maybe get to from point A to point B maybe a little bit faster in terms of instead of a straight line, maybe angles. Especially at my age, we really don't have too much time bouncing around and you know.
know, our stamina is not like it used to be. since Dale Jacoby, who I'm working with as well, he always tell me that at our age it's not speed, it's timing. So timing is what I'm trying to really like get across right now. Because once you lose your speed, you still have timing. It looks like you have speed, but it's really just timing. I'm working on my timing.
Jeremy Lesniak (21:26.135)
it done.
Melvin Wells Jr (21:50.239)
You know, and of course, always got to in some type of shape, even if you don't feel like you in shape. You know, staying in shape. That's what's good working out with younger guys. You know, they keep you in shape. They don't tire.
Jeremy Lesniak (22:02.669)
That's right. That's right. know, if you're, if you're, you know, there's an old saying that I've always liked. If you're the smartest person in the room, you need to find a different room. If you're the fittest person in the room or the best fighter in the room or whatever, if you want to get better, the easiest thing to do, I should say the simplest, not the easiest. The simplest thing to do is to find a room where everybody's better than you at whatever that thing is you want to get better at.
Melvin Wells Jr (22:12.478)
right.
Melvin Wells Jr (22:26.153)
That's right. That's right. I make sure I'm, I call them dogs. I'm around a bunch of dogs, man, all day long, man. Young guys, man, you know, whatever they lack in skill, they take up for in stamina and will and determination and young strength, you know, and vice versa. So I'm always challenged. You know, I'm always challenged in there and I really appreciate those guys.
Jeremy Lesniak (22:43.981)
Yeah. Yeah.
Jeremy Lesniak (22:53.357)
And I imagine in your work with Sensei Beni that you brought up timing. mean, this is a guy who was able to hang for quite a long time and is still, I've been in seminars with him. I won't do the thing that some people say, which is I've trained with Beni the Jet. No, I've been in a couple seminars with Beni the Jet. I've spent just enough time around him to know the man's amazing and he's gotta be one of the best to learn timing.
Melvin Wells Jr (23:06.216)
Thank you.
Melvin Wells Jr (23:11.233)
Right, right,
Melvin Wells Jr (23:22.521)
Everything. I see Sensei Beny least twice a month every other Friday. I go train with him in his class. That's my foundation. That's who awarded me my black belt. I'm a black belt in this Ukibe-Kunai system. So I'm a part of the family tree, which is a great thing to be. So I'm always continually training with him. Also, the other people I train with are also underneath his umbrella. Sensei Petey, Sugarfoot Cunningham.
Jeremy Lesniak (23:35.341)
No.
Melvin Wells Jr (23:52.466)
Dale Jacoby, like I mentioned, we all under Sensei Benny's umbrella. So when I'm training with him, I'm still really actually training with Sensei Benny in a sort of a sense. It's great thing. I'm really fortunate and I really appreciate it.
Jeremy Lesniak (24:11.501)
Yeah, so we've talked about two of the people that you looked up to at a young age. I imagine there were others. Who else? You you said said magazines, so I've got to imagine I can see a younger you flipping through some Karate Illustrated, some Inside Kung Fu, maybe some Black Belt. Who else were you looking up to back then?
Melvin Wells Jr (24:30.692)
Wow, I definitely a Muhammad Ali fan to the core. But when I really like start being in, getting into like the tournament scene and really start understanding, Ray Wizard was a big, big, big, big part of my inspiration. Like I said, another gentleman, Woody Sims, big part of my inspiration in terms of the tournament scene. Alvin Prater.
Jeremy Lesniak (24:36.331)
Yeah.
Melvin Wells Jr (25:00.517)
Dale Jacoby, who I was just fortunate to meet with later on in life. He's training me now for sport karate. And of course, guru in the sano. Being there, being trained underneath him was a thrill of a lifetime. So I've had a, my journey is still going. I have a great journey, a fantastic journey.
Jeremy Lesniak (25:28.269)
Sounds like it,
Melvin Wells Jr (25:28.964)
Yeah, I've been fortunate that everyone I've trained with are all legends. All living legends, except for a few that have passed away. But other than that, I've been very fortunate to be able to train with legends. Definitely.
Jeremy Lesniak (25:43.982)
Let's talk about Muhammad Ali. Because, you know, I do, let me start by saying I do. I consider boxing a martial art, or at least it can be trained as a traditional martial art. To me, a traditional martial art, you know, brings in tradition and builds discipline and everything. And we don't need to get bogged down in those definitions. But I think boxing is a place that if we take a look at, you know,
Melvin Wells Jr (25:45.795)
Yes, sir.
Melvin Wells Jr (25:56.676)
That's a good one.
Jeremy Lesniak (26:13.655)
Bruce Lee we take a look at G Kundo we take a look at MMA boxing is the place that I think. Additional martial arts weighted though when I see traditional martial arts I mean more contemporary taekwondo karate etc seem to wait the longest to learn from. What do you do you what do you.
Melvin Wells Jr (26:14.02)
you
Melvin Wells Jr (26:34.624)
Well, there was always, I mean, to cut you off, sir, there was always guys that was dibbling and dabbling in boxing. When I was far, some guys throughout the years, can tell the way they, especially when kickboxing started becoming the big thing, the K1s and stuff like that started becoming the big thing. Then boxing started to play a big role in it. Plus the boxing footwork, doesn't matter what arch you in, the boxing footwork is impeccable.
Jeremy Lesniak (26:39.798)
No, go, go!
Melvin Wells Jr (27:05.246)
you know, no matter what. the footwork, probably the evading of certain strikes and stuff like that, you know, boxing is almost king. Like one thing Bruce Lee would say is that if you was a good boxer and a wrestler, then you damn well could beat any martial artist, which is, I hate to say it, which is true. In terms of my experience, you know,
Jeremy Lesniak (27:29.782)
I would agree.
Melvin Wells Jr (27:34.047)
It's true actually.
Jeremy Lesniak (27:38.178)
Yeah, yeah, because where are you gonna get somebody? Right? It's, know, I'm a kicker. I love kicking. I absolutely love kicking. But there are very few people who can keep you at kicking range indefinitely. Right? Eventually your foot's gonna come down. Unless you're Bill Wallace, your foot's gonna come down. And then once that foot's down...
Melvin Wells Jr (27:41.415)
Yeah, exactly.
Melvin Wells Jr (27:46.017)
me too.
Melvin Wells Jr (27:52.103)
Right, right.
Melvin Wells Jr (27:57.043)
That's right.
Melvin Wells Jr (28:00.979)
Yeah, that's true. wrestlers are so rugged, so in good shape. It's hard to keep them guys at bay, especially a real good wrestler. And then if he knows how to box, you have problems on your hands.
Jeremy Lesniak (28:17.653)
Right, that's right. And every wrestler I've ever met has been really well conditioned. I used to do some gymnastics and we had some guys come through from time to time. It was an adult rec program and some of the wrestlers would come by just to mix up their conditioning and you know, they'd just be pulling standing back flips like it was nothing and we'd do an hour long class and the rest of us are like, man, they go, all right, we're gonna go, you know, we've got wrestling practice now.
Melvin Wells Jr (28:21.939)
Yes, definitely.
Melvin Wells Jr (28:39.549)
Bye.
Melvin Wells Jr (28:46.846)
Yes, yes. So to be a martial artist fighting a wrestler, you would have to actually be a wrestler as well. know something about wrestling as well so you can know the body position, know how he's grabbing you, and know where to throw that knee when he tries to do that double leg, stuff like that. So it goes hand in hand, basically. It goes hand in hand. Definitely.
Jeremy Lesniak (28:48.395)
It was a warm up to them.
Jeremy Lesniak (28:55.211)
Yeah.
Jeremy Lesniak (29:10.541)
Yeah. And as you said, it's all good. It all connects. It all has value as we put this stuff together. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I'm curious. We're going to go back to the beginning again, because at a really young age, your father put you in martial arts.
Melvin Wells Jr (29:18.386)
Yes, everything has value, most definitely. Yes sir.
Melvin Wells Jr (29:33.074)
Correct.
Jeremy Lesniak (29:35.501)
Did you and he later in life talk about what that had done for you? And you know, did you get some insight into more insight into his reasons for it?
Melvin Wells Jr (29:46.813)
to be honest with you, not really never really asked him about it. He passed away some years ago. Never really asked him about it. no, no, no problems. no worries. Thank you. all I can say is, it was the best thing he's ever, anybody could ever done for me because mentally, physically, you know, throughout life trials and tribulations, the martial arts mindset has kept me out of, you know, a of, a lot of issues.
Jeremy Lesniak (29:55.319)
Sorry to hear.
Melvin Wells Jr (30:16.474)
You know, it could have been bad for me and stuff like that, you know, kept me at a level head. So it was more, now I look back, it was more mental than physical. You know, cause like I said, when I started training, was pretty rough, pretty rough, rugged, you know, more of a mental game. Nowadays, everybody's on contracts, so you really can't train how we used to train. You know, it's more discipline, this is disciplinary.
training basically. So I really appreciate that. Like I said, that mindset has kept me going to a straight, narrow path in life, put it that way.
Jeremy Lesniak (31:03.681)
You think he knew that that's what he was doing for you?
Melvin Wells Jr (31:06.767)
I think so because he's a military man, he kind of knew. Yeah, he knew exactly what he was doing for me. You know, and I appreciate that most definitely. It's the greatest gift he ever gave me. know.
Jeremy Lesniak (31:11.628)
Okay.
Jeremy Lesniak (31:18.167)
Yeah.
Jeremy Lesniak (31:21.739)
Yeah, yeah. We've heard over the years from a number of guests who the parent understood the discipline, you know, a military parent understood the discipline that came from traditional training and saying, you know, yeah, maybe one day I want my child to go into the military, but there's six, I can't put them in there yet, but I can put them over here. And of course, if you know the history of traditional martial arts,
Melvin Wells Jr (31:44.367)
Right. Yeah.
Jeremy Lesniak (31:50.764)
I'm sure you do and most of the folks out there in the audience do. The way we train today in the West in most martial arts schools is military inspired. If you go back far enough, that's not how it was trained. But this is what we do today.
Melvin Wells Jr (32:02.906)
Correct.
Yeah, these kids nowadays, they go straight into MMA and probably boxing and know, training to physical stuff like that. But the traditional arts is where it's at, in my opinion. You traditional, this is the foundation. It's like a house. You have to have a foundation for any type of house. The biggest house, the smallest house, the most beautiful house has to have a foundation.
Jeremy Lesniak (32:14.16)
I'm sure.
Melvin Wells Jr (32:30.648)
You know, and traditional martial arts is a foundation, you know, that's needed mentally and physically. You know, and I would...
Jeremy Lesniak (32:39.497)
The bigger the house, more stable the foundation has to be.
Melvin Wells Jr (32:43.47)
That's right. I would always recommend traditional martial arts over any other, like I say, MMA anything right now. Somebody else want to get into martial arts, I'll say go traditional route first. Learn the kata. Learn the self-defense and stuff. The stuff that you don't want to do or you might be thinking it's waste of time or maybe whatever. I'm not going to do this kata in the street or whatever, but it's not about that.
Not about that at all. So I really appreciate that training.
Jeremy Lesniak (33:17.431)
I find that the aspects of training people like the least are the parts that they should spend the most time on.
Melvin Wells Jr (33:25.891)
That's right. You're 100 % correct. Yeah, you really don't, I guess, appreciate that stuff until maybe, I guess later on in life when you get older or maybe you you know, you do retrospecting. She's like, man, you know, I'm glad I went through that because I needed that. You know, then you see the younger generations, they're not going through that. Their mindset is a little bit different. Not to say it's worse, but it's just a little bit different, you know?
that are less disciplined, as I would say.
Jeremy Lesniak (33:59.918)
I would agree, I would say overall. Because I think for a lot of them they don't need to be. There are a lot of things that are easier now and that's not always bad. But I think, you know, the example that I would come back to is something like calculators but learning arithmetic. Yeah, you've got a calculator, use the calculator, it's more accurate than you are.
Melvin Wells Jr (34:05.496)
Right, right, right.
Melvin Wells Jr (34:11.873)
No, it's not.
Jeremy Lesniak (34:26.839)
But what if you don't have the calculator? What if the batteries die? What if something, right? So having something to fall back on. And I think for a lot of us being able to fall back on discipline and a self-reliant attitude.
Melvin Wells Jr (34:28.226)
That's right.
Melvin Wells Jr (34:42.872)
Correct.
Jeremy Lesniak (34:45.709)
I think that's the number one thing that, you know, everybody out there, if you're training, you know, you know what this does for you. You brought up competition and I want to talk about competition because I, you know, I can't speak to the competitive circuit in California, but I can talk about the Northeast and say that, you know, you've brought up your age. We don't have a lot of guys out there competing as, as older adults.
Melvin Wells Jr (34:51.352)
Yeah.
Melvin Wells Jr (35:00.812)
Right.
Jeremy Lesniak (35:14.573)
In fact, I'm 45 and in a lot of tournaments, I'm the... It's 45 and up because there are that few people that they just kind of lump everybody my age and older in together. talk to us about competition.
Melvin Wells Jr (35:20.908)
Right, right.
Melvin Wells Jr (35:28.439)
Most of the tournaments, I find tournaments like 50 and over or 60 and over. can find confidence. The one I go to in Stan Witts in Vegas, I go to every year. They have a 50 and over. NASCA, they have a 50 and over. So you can find tournaments. And then, I mean, if you get lumped to the 45 and up, then that's what it is. So what? mean...
You know, it is what it is. know, if you want to compete, you compete, you know? it's that. just really not an issue in terms of, especially when it terms of, in terms of a sport karate. Cause you know, we're not out there to kill nobody. You're not out there to get hurt. You know, it's just out there just to have fun and show some skill. So, know, sport karate, yeah. Anything else you talk about full contact and definitely not, definitely not.
Jeremy Lesniak (36:04.493)
Agree.
Jeremy Lesniak (36:25.325)
you're still competing, right? Like, and I think I heard you say that, you know, as you were talking about some of your history that you were competing a while ago too, what is it about competition that you enjoy?
Melvin Wells Jr (36:27.638)
Yeah.
Melvin Wells Jr (36:37.654)
Probably maybe because I grew up on it and I just enjoy it. I just enjoy competing. I enjoy any type of competing, even if just sparring in the gym, in the dojo, I enjoy that. I just come from that era, that era where you get in there and put the gloves on, you suit up. I'm just from that.
Jeremy Lesniak (37:03.511)
Yeah. Yeah.
Melvin Wells Jr (37:04.084)
You know, I'm from that and it's just, it's just in me and, know, and I enjoy it a lot. And as I was getting older, you know, I can't just be banging and going hard all the time, but I like to compete. So I figured I'm to jump back into the sport karate and, know, have some fun. You know what saying? So that's what I'm doing now. Having fun in sport karate. I'm having real good success at it.
So I'm just gonna stick with it. And there's guys that's still competing that's 65, 70 years old I see out there, you know? So my hat's off to them. Hopefully one day I can still do that, you know?
Jeremy Lesniak (37:41.538)
Great, that's great. you know, I, for me, whether it's martial arts or otherwise, the thing I love about competition is it gives you a little bit more incentive in your training. gives you, you know, I love training for the sake of training, but the way I train when there's a goal, whether it's, you know, it's a rank testing or it's a competition or I'm gonna go visit somebody else's school and I know they're gonna ask me to...
Melvin Wells Jr (37:53.428)
Right.
Melvin Wells Jr (37:57.685)
Right.
Jeremy Lesniak (38:07.873)
to present this or show this or teach that, right? It gives me another way to focus what I'm thinking about and doing. And I appreciate what that feels like.
Melvin Wells Jr (38:13.917)
Yes, sir.
Yeah, me too. I appreciate that as well. And when I see another guy that's my age or older or maybe a little bit younger, I appreciate that person as a martial artist. say, wow, he or she is still out here doing it. That's great. I really appreciate that,
Jeremy Lesniak (38:33.709)
Yeah, and those are the ones that I want to learn from, right? Especially when I see someone step out, you know, and, you know, they've got some ears on me and they're still taking me to task. That's the person I want to learn from because they've found a way to keep going. And there's still, know, one of the people that has blown me away the most that I've had the chance to talk to
Melvin Wells Jr (38:37.865)
Go for it!
Melvin Wells Jr (38:46.878)
Yes.
Melvin Wells Jr (38:51.796)
That's right.
Jeremy Lesniak (39:02.271)
and this is a name that you'll know is Ron Van Cleave. so Shidoshi Van Cleave talking to me, when was that? Maybe a year ago, and talking about getting started in Brazilian Jiu Jitsu in his seventies.
Melvin Wells Jr (39:04.382)
course.
Melvin Wells Jr (39:17.158)
Right, right. That's great.
Jeremy Lesniak (39:19.797)
You know, it's remarkable, right? There's always more to learn. There's always a way to show up. And, you know, I mean, that that man still in his 80s is rugged than most people at any age. But he talked about how he.
Melvin Wells Jr (39:24.82)
Melvin Wells Jr (39:32.654)
Yeah, he's still competing as well. He's still competing as well.
Jeremy Lesniak (39:37.954)
Yeah. And I think there's so much to learn from that. And you know, we have have this conflict in traditional martial arts, where we look back, we look at the history, we value that. But I think when it comes to competition, we're looking younger, we're always looking at who the new and the upcoming is. And I want to I want to talk to the older folks, I want to know, how are you still doing this? And
Melvin Wells Jr (40:00.605)
Right.
Jeremy Lesniak (40:06.145)
You're a great example of this and we're hearing about this. You're still doing this in a way that a lot of people say, I'm too banged up. I'm not going to do it like that anymore. But you're not just doing it. You're doing it and enjoying it and progress.
Melvin Wells Jr (40:16.303)
Right.
Melvin Wells Jr (40:20.081)
Yeah, I'm always banged up too. Every day I'm banged up, but it doesn't matter, know, because I enjoy doing it. The last tournament I just fought at was at the Compete. I took grand champion at Compete, which was great for me. And, you know, like I said, I'm always banged up. I mean, it's fine. It's just a part of the game. You know, being banged up and being hurt is two different things. know, banged up, you can still keep going hurt.
Jeremy Lesniak (40:34.527)
yeah.
Jeremy Lesniak (40:38.061)
Congratulations.
Melvin Wells Jr (40:50.129)
you might have to lay off for a few weeks or something like that. So I've been fortunate enough not to be actually hurt, you know, maybe ego-wise, maybe, maybe some guy got the best of me, you know what saying, at training or something. And I was like, ah, man, come on. Other than that, then, you know, I really don't get hurt too much, which is good.
Jeremy Lesniak (41:10.509)
lessons. There's little lessons, you know, getting banged up. maybe I should have done this different. And then there's the big lessons where you spend a week or two sitting there really thinking about what you learned.
Melvin Wells Jr (41:21.742)
Yeah, exactly. That's that's especially when I started grappling, you know, that was foreign territory to me. So that was really a shock. I enjoy grappling to a certain extent. I'm not a ground fighter. You know, I don't like to go on the ground and twist an attorney. So I concentrate on my strength, which is to stop the takedowns also to get back up. So that's what that's why
Jeremy Lesniak (41:29.901)
Do you enjoy that? You enjoy the grappling?
Jeremy Lesniak (41:39.362)
Yeah.
Neither.
Melvin Wells Jr (41:50.767)
I figure that's what I train myself to do. A lot people want to be down there, get the arm bar, get the real naked choke or whatever. If it's there, it's there. If it's not, my whole thing is to get up. Because like I said, I'm old school. So the first thing that we would always learn back in the day was don't go to the ground. Don't get to the ground. It was street orientated. So you don't want to go on your cell phone to the ground.
Jeremy Lesniak (42:18.679)
being on pavement.
Melvin Wells Jr (42:19.407)
Yeah, exactly. Exactly. You don't want to be on the pavement. But nowadays it's like the total opposite, which is kind of trippy for me. It's like these guys want to be on the ground, but street-wise, that's not a very good thing to be on the ground. So, and I know at my age, it's going to take me a while to master this or learn how to do this on the ground. So I say, okay, this is I'm going to do. I'm going to concentrate on more wrestling.
Jeremy Lesniak (42:28.845)
Yeah.
Melvin Wells Jr (42:44.729)
More not being taken to the ground, defending the takedown. If I get on the ground, getting back up as fast as I can. so that's what I've been on training for the last maybe four or five years. That's how I've been training myself, you know, in terms of ground fighting. But like I say, I spar pros, finna be turning pros like every other day, you know, so.
I'm very familiar with the growling.
Jeremy Lesniak (43:19.233)
Yeah, it's so funny how, you know, we're talking about all these different martial arts, which to me, you we could think of them as like puzzle pieces. And people put the puzzle together so differently. You you and I, think are pretty similar in that for me, if I'm on the ground, I'm doing everything I can to get back up, because I want to use my hands and feet. And I have so many people that I've trained with that they learn how to strike just so they can close the distance to try to put me on the ground.
Melvin Wells Jr (43:36.373)
Yes.
Melvin Wells Jr (43:46.822)
Right, on the ground, right, right. That's the game, yeah, yeah, definitely. Yeah, it's just not, it's a great game. It's just not my game, you know, and I know my strengths and my weaknesses, of course. And, you know, I'm not a ground fighter, you know, so I don't want to be on the ground, yes.
Jeremy Lesniak (44:05.965)
And I like in this context anyway, the use of the word game, because not only are we playing it, which, know, martial arts is fun, at least it should be, and playing is a good thing. But game to me suggests strategy, right? When we're working together, when you're sparring somebody, when you're doing a drill, you should be thinking. There should be some strategy involved as you play out, you know, whatever the goal is.
Melvin Wells Jr (44:32.552)
Yeah, and it's pretty cool when I train with the guys at the Den Training Center, that's the first thing they want to do. They want to get me to the ground because they know that stand up wise, you know, I'm a problem, you know, not that I can beat them or whatever, just I'm a problem, you know, I like to say that. So they immediately try and get me to the ground and try and, which is a little sort of like show of respect of my skills. And I appreciate that, you know.
Jeremy Lesniak (44:45.101)
I
Melvin Wells Jr (44:59.685)
Yeah, you know what saying? That's what they have to do to try and neutralize me. But like I say, I didn't got very well. Well, Coach Ben Jones taught me very well how to defend a takedown, get up from the ground. So that's even difficult to keep me down there now, which I'm proud of.
Jeremy Lesniak (45:22.519)
So here's a question for you. We'll see where this takes us. You've been around, you've seen some things, you've done some training, but you're still active in a way that you're still learning, right? We already talked about it. Not everybody sees it that way. So what if you could go back 20, 30, 40, 50 years, talk to your younger self and give advice? What would you be telling the younger you?
Melvin Wells Jr (45:50.215)
I will be telling the younger me, actually, you know what, probably nothing. Because the journey that I've taken, it's been a great journey, no regrets. So I would tell my younger self just to keep taking the same journey, just to keep going. Meet certain people throughout the years, certain trainers, certain individuals.
I always would say if I could measure my martial arts experience through monetary value, I'd probably be a trillionaire right now. From people that I've trained with and still continue to train with. mean, being with Sisyphe being alone for 18 years is incredible. I had to cross-walk to where it was like, do you want to turn pro in kickboxing?
Jeremy Lesniak (46:26.989)
Mmm.
Jeremy Lesniak (46:37.485)
Just a blessing.
Melvin Wells Jr (46:43.071)
Or do you want to go ahead and learn Uketa Khan and get a black belt from Benny Uketa is? And at the time I had a family, stuff like that. So everything took a lot. So it took a lot for me to train in Uketa Khan. Took a lot for me to train if I wanted to turn pro. So I figured that being a, since it's Benny's family tree in terms of being one of his black belts is way more important than any type of.
international kickboxing belt or anything like that. Those guys, they're in the history books and whatnot, but you have to be a certain martial artist to know who those guys are. Not that they forgot about, but like I said, you have to know who they are. to say that I'm one of the, they've been in these black belts, that goes a long way. Goes a long way.
Jeremy Lesniak (47:35.405)
That is a special achievement. Not a lot of people can say that. Not of people can say they've earned a black belt, but the number people who can say they earned a black belt from Benny the Jet, I mean, that's a much smaller list.
Melvin Wells Jr (47:39.929)
No, no, no, you know.
Melvin Wells Jr (47:49.382)
yeah, and he actually gave it to me out of his hand, you know. that's a very monumental thing for me. I keep that dear and dear to my heart. That was more important to me than, well, it goes back to being a traditional martial artist. It's way more important to me than having some championship belts, you Definitely.
Jeremy Lesniak (47:56.045)
That's so cool.
Jeremy Lesniak (47:59.992)
Yeah.
Jeremy Lesniak (48:04.727)
That's great.
Jeremy Lesniak (48:13.677)
If if people want to get a hold of you, you know, are you on social media? You got a website you do anything like that?
Melvin Wells Jr (48:21.877)
I'm at, it's called the IG Instagram, it's MelvinWells underscore uketoconjkdbadgers, it's long.
Melvin Wells Jr (48:40.859)
No problem. No problem. Badgers is the name of the MMA team I'm with at the Dent Training Center in Yorba Linda, California. So I try and link everybody together on my IG, because I represent everybody in terms of my training and stuff like that. But yeah, that's where they can get a hold of me. I'm on Facebook, Melvin Wells Jr. on Facebook. And that's probably the limit to my social media capabilities.
Jeremy Lesniak (48:55.149)
That sense.
Jeremy Lesniak (49:11.211)
Hey, I wish that was the limit for mine. I've actually pulled back a lot. know a lot of other people have too. We've only got so much time in the day, right? How do you want to spend more training in real social rather than social media?
Melvin Wells Jr (49:21.569)
Right.
Melvin Wells Jr (49:27.329)
That's right.
Jeremy Lesniak (49:29.281)
I'm going to have you close us off here in just a moment, but a reminder to the audience, make sure you check out the show notes at whistlekickmarshallartsradio.com. Sign up for the newsletter, get emails, behind the scenes, all the stuff, every episode we drop. We do two a week, right? So make sure you are getting those emails so you never miss another great episode. And so here we are. We've been talking for...
Melvin Wells Jr (49:38.401)
Great, I see.
Jeremy Lesniak (49:58.806)
Almost an hour here, you've dropped a lot of knowledge. And how do you want to wrap it up? What do you want the audience to come away with today?
Melvin Wells Jr (49:59.964)
So.
Melvin Wells Jr (50:06.244)
I want them to really dip into the traditional arts, especially if have younger kids, younger siblings. Traditional arts is where it's at. Going straight to the MMA gym and going straight to the boxing gym, stuff like that, that's great too. But traditional arts, I believe, is where it's at, so you can get that foundation. And then from the foundation,
You can go from there to venture off, but traditional arts, to me, that's where it's at, traditionally, most definitely.