Episode 493 - Super Podcast with Ando, Jaredd, and Jeremy

In this episode, Jeremy is joined by Sensei Ando and Sensei Jaredd for an edition of Super Podcast.

Super Podcast with Ando, Jaredd, and Jeremy - Episode 493

Today’s episode is the first-ever Super Podcast for whistlekick Martial Arts Radio where 3 hosts from 3 different podcasts come together. Jeremy along with Sensei Ando and Sensei Jaredd answers questions and reads stories from you, the listeners, as well as talking about some really interesting topics. Listen to find out more!

In this episode, Jeremy is joined by Sensei Ando and Sensei Jaredd for an edition of Super Podcast. Super Podcast with Ando, Jaredd, and Jeremy - Episode 493 Today's episode is the first-ever Super Podcast for whistlekick Martial Arts Radio where 3 hosts from 3 different podcasts come together.

Show Transcript

You can read the transcript below or download it here.Jeremy Lesniak:Do you consider, this is from Rob, Rob [00:00:07]Ando Mierzwa:Hey Rob!Jeremy Lesniak:Who is hosting 30 years, 30 years? 30 days.Jaredd Wilson:30 years.Jeremy Lesniak:30 years of martial arts. You train an hour a day for the next 30 years and then you get your 14th dawn in whatever art you feel like disparaging right now which we're not going to do. But the question for the three of us, do you consider yourself called someone who does martial arts or do you consider yourself a called martial artist?Ando Mierzwa:Martial artist.Jaredd Wilson:Yeah. That was, I had determined the difference between people who do martial arts and people who practice martial arts. So in my head, the guy was the, the practicing was the person who comes in on Tuesday because it's Tuesday and its martial arts day. You know, it was the activity of the day, it wasn't as embedded into their lifestyle and that doesn't mean that people can't go back and forth between the two either but I would say that I do martial arts, I don't practice it. The martial art practitioner is the one who just comes in on that given day to do whatever it is that day. They don't take it home and do it, everything with it, all the other stuff that comes along with it, all the practice at home, building a dojo in their basement, you know, whatever it happens to be.Jeremy Lesniak:Yeah. Yeah. I've long struggled with the language around this and you know, like the verb, what is the verb that goes with martial arts? Is it do? Is it practice? Is it… And I've honestly, I've dodged it for a long time, and there was a guest on the show, not too long ago, who used the word play, very intentionally with that and initially, I had a bit of a negative kind of a distancing reaction to it and the more he talked about it the more onboard I became.Jaredd Wilson:You know, when I teach Aikido, after we demonstrate the technique a couple of times and I purposely say, "Now go play with it."Jeremy Lesniak:Right. Right and I've heard that verb used in that way certainly.Ando Mierzwa:I think it lessens the impact of this has to be right 100% of the time for the first time you do it. "No, no, no, this is an experiment, go see what works."Jeremy Lesniak:What verb do you use Ando?Ando Mierzwa:I like play. I mean, if you play a piano, you don't say I do piano, right? So, we used play if I play soccer, you don't say "I do soccer" so it only makes sense if you're a martial artist that you "You play martial arts. I like that" I think that's bad. And I think all our teacher friend can tell us officially, don't most studies show now that the learning theory of play is gets far better benefits than like the kind of the rote learning or other models of education. Is that right? At least with younger kids?Jared Wilson:Yeah. The only thing I would say is that, play has a kind of teaching of not being serious at the same time too. So, it's saying that it depends on who you're talking to on what you would say. I wouldn't say to another martial artists that I play martial arts.That would seem to kind of downgrade it.Jeremy Lesniak:It does, but - and I find that interesting because that's the first place that my mind goes but then when we think about professional athletes, they all play their sport they play their position. In that context, we don't diminish it. You know, we don't talk about Tom Brady as being the greatest of all time and that he does football. He plays football. I mean, we can say those two things in the same, you know, in adjacent sentences and one doesn't seem to diminish the other so why is it that we instinctively go there, we go to a childish interpretation of the word play with martial arts but we don't go there when we talk about pro athletes.Ando Mierzwa:Well, I guess again, it depends on who's having that conversation. If I'm the owner of the team and I'm paying Tom Brady millions of dollars, I don't want to come down in the field and have him say, "Yeah, I'm just playing around" I want him to say, "I'm practicing. I'm going to win" you know?Jeremy Lesniak:Sure.Ando Mierzwa:And about doctor's, I wouldn't want to go in and have a brain surgery with a who doctor says "Yeah, I'm just playing around with this new technique" I'd want him to say, "I've practiced this technique. I can do this technique on your brain" so yeah, that's why we have different words and language but for the most part, if we're talking about the life and death of it, if I'm trying to market a self-defence seminar, then I'm not going to say, "Hey, come on in, we're going to play around with chokes" you know, we're going to say, "Yes, we're going to practice self-defense techniques" but how do you get good at practicing? Well you got to play around with this stuff and see what works for you and not take it completely seriously all the time. You have to allow yourself the freedom of making mistakes, which is what I think play, opens up the door too. Practicing might mean, "Hey, I'm just trying to do this one thing the right way” the way Jared said kind of even there's a stigma, you know, “I'm trying to make it right" whereas play suggests there's a freedom around the edges where you can kind of explore a little bit and it's okay to fall down and slip up because you're playing with it, then you can lock it in later and then practice what you learned while you were playing. So, they're both, you know, they both have a time and place, I think.Jaredd Wilson:I think it's almost like in the dojo, I want to say we play with it but then any place that's not the dojo you don't play with it?Ando Mierzwa:Okay. Well, if you do martial arts, if you are a martial artist, you're always in the dojo so.Jeremy Lesniak:And that was kind of part B on Rob's question, it was, what is the difference between someone who does martial arts or someone who insert verb, hears martial arts and someone who is a martial artist?Ando Mierzwa:It's either you know, it's either on your mind all the time or it's not. And I don't mean in a negative way like I'm obsessed, I can't stop thinking but you know, if you go to the gym and you lift weights, maybe you only go to the gym three times a week but on your off days you would still say, "Yeah, I lift weights, I work out” and there's an afterglow from having been there yesterday, “I'm stronger today and I'm healthier today because of what I did yesterday.” So I don't think it's fair to people who only get to go to a school twice a week or three times a week for martial arts class to say, well, on those off days then you're not a martial artist anymore, you can only be a martial arts for the hour or two that you're on the mats because there's an afterglow from having gone through the training, that's the whole point. You should be now carrying something with you outside of your class.Jeremy Lesniak:And I think that's the important piece, is how what happens inside of training impacts your life outside of training.Ando Mierzwa:Right. The better the class, the more that's going to stick with you, I think. The less important of the class or the less meaningful or the less profound then you'll forget it as soon as - if you walk out the door of your class and you already can't remember what you did that night, then maybe you're just playing at martial arts and it's just something, it's a little hobby, it's something that gets you out of the house. But if you go to class and you have like a little emotional breakthrough or you really change your character somehow and that sticks with you in your business, in your relationships, when you get home, you need a minute to kind of calibrate, re-calibrate your life then now we're talking you're beyond just hobby now. It's part of you.Jeremy Lesniak:Right. And I like the analogy that you used about someone who lifts weights because I think that you can make a really concrete example there. What is the stereotypical weightlifter? Right? They wear a certain clothing, they buy supplements, they carry around their jug of water right there, there's maybe a uniform, there's a personality, there are actions that happen day to day and I think we have those as martial artists, but I think the challenge is that they can be very different. There isn't a universal way of being a martial artist outside of training. Yeah that looks terrible. You know where it is, it's the back light on.Jaredd Wilson:I know. I was trying to avoid the camera angle but I don't think it's working. It's just --Jeremy Lesniak:Can you rotate to your right at all?Jaredd Wilson:Oh here. Let me turn on the light just in general.Ando Mierzwa:Okay. See this is why it was hard to find a picture of Jared to begin with, to make the little poster. I could not find a good picture of this guy. Why can't you show me a good head-shot.Jeremy Lesniak:Well, that's why you photo-shopped him on the Indiana Jones, right?Ando Mierzwa:That's right. No, it's a good story on that hat. We liked that hat.Jaredd Wilson:Yeah, the one picture that's up there that's last two summers ago in the Rocky Mountains national park so of course the Indiana Jones’s half of that.Ando Mierzwa:Of course.Jeremy Lesniak:Next question from, I'm guessing Gabe, could be his wife, but Gabe, so you… It would be great to hear a brief version of each of your origin stories and then answer the question, what was the most influential event on your martial arts journey?Jared Wilson:You want me to go first?Jeremy Lesniak:Yes.Jaredd Wilson:Okay. Why not.Jeremy Lesniak:Because you've volunteered by asking that question.Jaredd Wilson:The kid that raises hand has to go first. So, I don't know if it's typical or not but mine was started by a pop culture of all things. The movie Highlander is what got me interested in swords in general. You know, growing up my mom is a Middle Eastern dancer, she does belly dancing and she had a specialty dance she did where she balanced swords on her head. So, we always just kind of had swords lying around my house.Ando Mierzwa:Good parent.Jaredd Wilson:Nobody died, so I guess it's okay.Ando Mierzwa:I had a twin brother but.Jaredd Wilson:I don't know, so I was just been having swords and then finally I decided, You know what, I'm going to go figure out how to use these things, and my idea at that time was, since Japanese swords are the greatest swords of all time, that's what I'm going to go learn how to use so it's funny is that, I actually went in for the swords and then stayed for all the Aikido part of it.Ando Mierzwa:Cool.Jaredd Wilson:That's my origin story, it was precipitated by belly dancing and highlander.Ando Mierzwa:Love it. I love all that. Do you still believe the Japanese sword is the finest sword?Jaredd Wilson:It's very good at what it does, but every weapon is the best thing at what it does otherwise --Jeremy Lesniak:Spoken like a HEMA guy.Ando Mierzwa:Hey, I thought we weren't deriding anybody's --Jeremy Lesniak:I'm not, I'm not. If you watch the guests that Jared has on his show, there's a point like a year and a half ago that it takes this hard left and it's just, it's a lot of HEMA people and I don't mean that in a negative way it's great because I don't get very many HEMA people on our show.Jaredd Wilson:It took me a long time to get to the point where in my head I thought HEMA was martial arts, but the more I researched it I'm like, well they do all the same things that traditional Asian martial arts do so why shouldn't it be?Ando Mierzwa:Right. Sure.Jeremy Lesniak:There are only so many ways the body can move.Jaredd Wilson:Yeah.Ando Mierzwa:Well then you take belly dancing you go, Oh, I didn't know you could do that.Jeremy Lesniak:I can just see Jaredd with the sword over his head.Jaredd Wilson:With the swords.Ando Mierzwa:If that starts, I'm logging out, gentlemen.Jeremy Lesniak:Well, he's from the neck down, so we're good.Ando Mierzwa:Belly dancing without the belly. That's what I prefer.Jeremy Lesniak:Neck dancing. I've been watching a lot of Dave Chappelle. Can you tell?Ando Mierzwa:Wow, that's good.Jaredd Wilson:So what about you Ando, what’s your martial arts origin story?Ando Mierzwa:Oh, nothing fancy. I see that picture over your shoulder there, Bruce Lee on your wall unless that's your dad or something strange. So yeah, pop culture for me too. That was young man looking for a role model that wasn't built like Arnold Schwarzenegger and Bruce was the guy. He's like, Wow, he's cocky, he's confident, he's in control of himself so, I'd like some of that what do I have to do? Martial arts. Okay. And so that was it.Jaredd Wilson:Did you go looking like specifically for JKD or --Ando Mierzwa:Absolutely not. No, no, no. Well no because the first thing I ever got was you know, Bruce Lee the Tao of Jeet Kune Do and right off the bat it's, you know, well, by the end of the last page it says you know, "Don't make a fuss over the name, you have to kind of create your own thing anyway." so I never in a million years thought you should go looking for Jeet Kune Do I thought he was telling you, there is no Jeet Kune Do, it's up to you so just go do your thing. So, I never ever had that cult of Bruce Lee other than I just liked him as a role model as a human. He was open-minded, he was cross-cultural, he was looking at Western and Eastern, he was a philosophy major, I was a philosophy major. It was just like okay, I just relate to this guy as a human being. Actually, I didn't really care for his movie fighting, I thought a lot of that stuff look crazy and silly. So no but this is a starting off point, Bruce Lee for sure.Jeremy Lesniak:Did you read that book before you started training?Ando Mierzwa:That's how I started training. It was Bruce Lee's fighting method that the publisher put together like these little photos. That was like my first official thing that I ever bought like the blue one. And I said, Oh okay and then eventually, I found out about the Tao of Jeet Kune Do and I was like, Oh I get that, and so then it kind of worked through those pages and said, Oh okay, and then I was in my garage for years until I finally said, Okay I need to go find a school, I've gone as far as I can in my garage it's buddies and my brother or whatever and that was actually Steven Seagal. And you know what, so it's back to Rob - I'm sorry, Gabe’s question. The starting point for me at least was the Bruce Lee thing, but then it was Steven Seagal that convinced me that I can't learn everything in my garage because when I saw Above the Law, I had no idea what he was doing. I understood punches and kicks and throwing dummies around, but I didn't understand the flipping and the quick angles, I didn't understand what he was doing so I went up looking for Aikido school it was actually the first school I went looking for was an Aikido student.Jaredd Wilson:Was that on the submarine? Isn't that the movie with a submarine?Ando Mierzwa:No, no that was later, that was Under Siege but Above the Law was the first.Jeremy Lesniak:All the Seagal movies blur together for me.Ando Mierzwa:In a good way.Jeremy Lesniak:Yes. In a great way. In the best way.Ando Mierzwa:They're all awesome. They're all awesome.Jeremy Lesniak:He did some good stuff.Jaredd Wilson:Now, I know you started real early Jeremy.Jeremy Lesniak:I was four. I was four. I spent the first year maybe more, I don't know how many years walking, it was a former small high school gym that had become a community canter and beautiful hardwood floors with a lot of knots in the wood and I would step from knot to knot so sometimes I had really long stances, sometimes my stances were not so long because that's how I did it.Jaredd Wilson:Awesome!Jeremy Lesniak:Yeah. The fact that I was not beaten is a miracle shout out to [0:14:51] and John for not beating me. I mean they do now. They take it out on me now I'm sure. I'm sure there was a lot of, “Okay. He's 12, now we can hit him.” That happened and what was part B?Ando Mierzwa:Are you still training with the same people you started with when you were four?Jeremy Lesniak:It was the hiatus. There was a 20-year hiatus.Ando Mierzwa:Oh, and you're reconnected with them now?Jeremy Lesniak:Yeah.Ando Mierzwa:Wow!Jeremy Lesniak:Yeah. They're in the woods in Northern Maine, they have a beautiful space and they winter in Florida and they just got back because of what's going on but when they're around, I mean I'm there usually once a month. It's a few hours to get there but it's, yeah. You know the saying "You can't go home" I am and it's pretty, It's pretty awesome.Jaredd Wilson:What age did you started Ando?Ando Mierzwa:I don’t know, early mid-teens.Jaredd Wilson:Oh, okay.Ando Mierzwa:I can’t remember.Jaredd Wilson:I started first year in college. So somewhere about 18, 19.Ando Mierzwa:Okay. Good age, good age.Jaredd Wilson:Someone on the… I'm keeping a track on the comments here.Jeremy Lesniak:Thank you.Ando Mierzwa:What are you looking? I don't see anything.Jaredd Wilson:I'm looking on phone, I'm cheating.Ando Mierzwa:Oh, okay.Jeremy Lesniak:Yeah, it's not here. It's not this.Ando Mierzwa:Yeah, I don't know where to look at.Jeremy Lesniak:You focus on being the one who is professionally lit with wardrobe and showing up with great gear and intelligent conversation and Jared and I will do all of the things that you're not supposed to do as part of this. How's that?Ando Mierzwa:I think you guys are doing great. Thank you for being here.Jeremy Lesniak:What did you find Jared?Jaredd Wilson:Someone asked, I missed the name because it went by too quick, but someone asked what their favorite Katas were.Jeremy Lesniak:Oh, I saw that. That's correct.Jaredd Wilson:Okay.Jeremy Lesniak:Favorite Kata or I'm going to generalize it. Favorite form and why? And I think I went last one, the last one so I'll go first this time. It depends, it really depends on the day. There are days that I can really appreciate in [0:07:15] or in some schools it's called teki. You know, the line. I can really appreciate the amount of nuance you have to put into that to realize what it's actually doing and it's a really popular form when people break down bunkai and then there are days where it's Enpi or Kusanku which were the forms that I competed with back then when I was competing. And because I've done those forms so many times I feel like I know them so much deeper than any of my other forms and I can just like, I feel like I can express who I am as a martial artist that much more completely in performing those patterns that I can - doing say something else that I don't know as well.Ando Mierzwa:Beautiful. That was like a love affair. That was beautiful.Jeremy Lesniak:Well, thank you.Ando Mierzwa:Listening to that.Ando Mierzwa:Jared, do you do Kata?Jaredd Wilson:So, Aikido and martial arts in general do it really different and that you have to have two man to do the Kata. Except for weapons, there's really not solo Kata, because it would just kind of look really funny.Ando Mierzwa:Are you saying that Jeremy looks really funny when he does his forms?Jared Wilson:No, those are good. You know, karate has nice solid stances, good moves. Aikido, it just kind of look floppy, I guess. You know.Ando Mierzwa:Are you saying Tai Chi people look silly when they do their forms?Jeremy Lesniak:I think it is. I think Jared's job tonight is to offend every martial artist, regardless of style. He's got a bingo card in front of him and he's like, “All right, hold on. I made fun of, I made fun of Aikido -- "Jaredd Wilson:HEMA down.Jeremy Lesniak:"All right, who's left. Who's in the center square, Aikido”.Jaredd Wilson:So, for me is, it's just going to be a weapons form of some sort just because that's generally, the only forms that we have. How about you? Do you have something that you prefer?Ando Mierzwa:Yeah, I prefer my own form. I've got my own. That's what I do. Yeah, I mean, we went through the whole, when I was in Taekwondo, we did the Taekwondo forms and karate. When I did the Karate, like kusanku who was a cool form. I always liked that one. Naihanchi, just because it's so irregular and strange, it's fun to study and it's very doable, it's not particularly athletic. So those are always cool standbys but as I've gotten older, I think it's become more important to make my own really personal connection with the form and this could be a huge other conversation and whatever but at this point, I written my own form and that's the one I practiced the most and because I don't have to ask anyone what the bunkai is, or what's the right way to do it, it takes a huge amount of psychological pressure off so you can actually get, I think, to the good stuff that forms can give you where I think a lot of people miss it because they're so concerned with doing it right or what does it mean, and has it changed or I need this for a belt test. There are so many other factors that ruined the actual experience of just feeling and moving and getting to connect with your body that I'm not a big fan of doing other people’s form --Jeremy Lesniak:I want to know everything about that. I really do. I really do.Jaredd Wilson:Is it more of a karate type form or ...?Ando Mierzwa:No, man, it's mine.Jeremy Lesniak:Does it have a name?Ando Mierzwa:It's called "Ando form".Jaredd Wilson:It's Ando what?Ando Mierzwa:It's Ando.Jeremy Lesniak:[0:20:43] Ando?Ando Mierzwa:I mean, it's been a project for - as long as I've been doing martial arts, it's always been a, well, I have my little separate notebook. Like well, here's a move I like, or gee I need to feel these - it's an exploration, right? We were talking before about your playing at your martial arts or you're practicing and when you get to a form, I think most people would automatically put that into the practice portion because someone else wrote it and someone else is going to judge you on it and someone else is correcting you on it, so therefore, it's everything that's not you. Your head is in a completely different spot than if it's just you painting on a white canvas and, I just want to paint a tree today, and no one's there to hit my hand or tell me that it's wrong or that it sucks. I can tell myself what I wanted to do and whether I got there and I can come back tomorrow and make it better on my own. I can ask coaches and, Hi, how do you get that shading effect? I can always look for help. I do. That's what teachers are for. But for me now, a form should be something very personal because where do these forms come from in the first place? Where does kusanku come from? Right? It's, it's a tribute to this Chinese missionary whatever emissary, shipwreck blah blah blah and these are the moves that we remember him doing or this was the style that he was showing. Why are there so many forms to begin with and so many styles of martial arts? Because each one is a representation of that person's wisdom and what their preferences were, and then everything got screwed up, instead of learning one form that represented your family or your clan or your person, suddenly, it was like, we have to know 12 forms or 20 forms. And one of them, like you're saying, enpi versus chitae. You know, this one was kind of better techniques for a short stocky person. This one was for a tall, whatever here's crane style, there's tiger style. I don't think you're supposed to be great at all of those, you're supposed to be getting better and better at refining which parts are you and once you figure that out, then you can start playing with, well, what now that I'm 50 or 60, which movements bring up the parts of me that I want to bring up. So that's where the art comes in, creating your own form I think at some point.Jeremy Lesniak:I think that's awesome. Has anyone, how do I phrase the question? Has anyone said you can't make up your own form, you're silly don't do that, because there are people out there --Ando Mierzwa:[0:22:55] kinds of stupid stuff.Jeremy Lesniak:That's right. You've got a big YouTube presence. I'm sure you deal with the lot of that.Ando Mierzwa:Yeah. Well, there are mostly very nice people, but of course everybody thinks they know everything and everyone's - and by the way, to be fair, I mean, it's easy to be snarky about that but everyone's at a different stage of their development.Jeremy Lesniak:Sure.Ando Mierzwa:So, if you just started martial arts, your three years in four years in, and you say, Well, you can't make up your own form. Who do you think you are? Like, Shut up. Train for 40 years and then come back and we'll talk. You don't know what you're talking about. You have to learn someone else's form because you don't know what you're doing yet. So, you know, I'm not concerned about your opinion really.Jaredd Wilson:So then how did you decide what was going to go into your form? Did you --Ando Mierzwa:That's experience.Jaredd Wilson:Every time you do it or ...?Ando Mierzwa:No, no. I mean, I have a set form that I do, that's my form. As it stands now I'll modify it as I move along, I've have over the years because again, you have different goals, different things you want to work on and some things that I feel that are so important I never want to let go of, so those are going to be the most commonly pieces that stay the same over time but you know, the way you do it, the rhythm that you do it, all of that's where the play comes in. You can do your form, my form, your forms. You know, some days you might do them very slowly, some days you may do them for dynamic power, some days you may do them just one of the moves over and over again cause your body needs it that day, some days you're doing it just as one continuous flow with no accents, no stops. There are so many different ways you can move your body that match up with different emotions and if people don't have the freedom to play with that, then they are so limited in what they're doing. Even if you're going to use someone else's template, you're going to do teki, you're going to do kusanku, okay. But play with it cause the guy who wrote it's dead, he's not here to tell you what to do so, you're taking second hand, third hand information, but what it means, what it's for and what you should be getting out of it. At some point you have to take charge of it and say, I don't care what anybody says. Here's what I need to get out of this and I will test it out, my feedback, my theories as a -you know, that's why we have sparring and partners. I'm not saying just sit in your basement and think you're the best but at some point, it has to become art. It has to be you. And you know, in the old days with Karate, it wasn't just, oh it's just shodokan and everyone's the same, no, it was always Matsumura style. This is Itosu this is, you know, each you were identified by the family name of what kind of karate you're talking about.Jeremy Lesniak:If someone said, "Hey, I'm intrigued at this idea I've been training a while. I want to make my own form." like, what would you tell them?Ando Mierzwa:"Go for it." And you don't have to throw the other one, this is not either or, it's a both and. You know, if you want to represent your style, whatever that style is and perform those kata the way that they should be performed to represent that style, Fantastic. But on the side, you should have his other project. Like, you know, what is a grown adult with experience? And my body can do certain things and I have a certain preference for certain techniques. I need to just remind myself of how I want to move and how I like to do things and what kind of things I visualize doing in a bad situation and put that together. And by the way, I'm already screwing up someone else's creation. Maybe for you, it's not about the bunkai, it's not about the visualization of techniques, maybe it is literally just a physical form that you're trying to work your body through to open up whatever energies and flexibilities you want to have through your whole life but maybe for someone else, it is literally, these are my top 10 favorite self-defense moves. This is my throat grab, this is my groin grab, this is my whatever and you're just wasting those, you never forget them.Jaredd Wilson:We stab the groin.Jeremy Lesniak:Always we stab the groin, always.Jaredd Wilson:You know, it kind of reminds me of you know, you're talking about keep the art in it. It kind of reminds me of that. At some point, if you're playing guitar, you play everybody else's stuff but at some point, you got to write your own solo.Ando Mierzwa:Yeah. Well, you don't have to, but again, it's just, that's the difference between art maybe and a fan or what was the other word? Well, I'll tell you what I mean, I had no, I see that, that's too personal. I’ll screen that up. Some people are very natural at creating, other people are not. So, it's not bad to say "I'm a huge black Sabbath fan." Great. And you're already a skilled guitar player, but at some point, you're going to be over your head when you get asked to go jam with someone and say, "Hey, let's just riff and make up stuff and let's just jam." And your kind of like trying to work in black Sabbath riffs into the jam session like, "Woah! we kind of heard that before." That's a different skill set. And I think it's just important to recognize which one are you, what is your goal? Are you trying to be the greatest exemplar of Shotokan or Taekwondo or a particular branch of those titles, which proves my case right off the bat, that there's more than one of all of these things or is your main goal to really know yourself and create something of your own and be your own thing cause you know you can never - how can you please someone who's already dead? They don't even know what you're doing with the forms. Itosu’s not here, he doesn't know what you're doing with the Pinan Kata, he doesn't care.Jaredd Wilson:True.Jeremy Lesniak:Totally.Ando Mierzwa:Just thoughts.Jeremy Lesniak:How often do you guys do - we'll say partner work versus solo work? I was going to say kata or forms, but Jared already made it pretty clear that he hates forms and things are stupid.Ando Mierzwa:I heard, I heard him say that, you know --Jeremy Lesniak:And if it's not directly applicable to self-defense, then you shouldn't do it. We can make you that guy in this group.Jaredd Wilson:Otherwise it's just dancing. I'm sorry.Ando Mierzwa:Well, that's a good question. So, Jared, because Aikido, I mean, I practice Aikido for a little while, practice. I didn't have enough time to play with it. When you don't have a partner, how do you develop your skills?Jaredd Wilson:So, like I said, we do have weapons forms and a lot of that is moving your body the same way that you would if there was a person involved. It's still teaching the same principles as far as angle, as far as how to move, move in circles. So, the weapons forms are designed to - see, Aikido is a weird thing. It's an unarmed, armed [0:29:09] in that, it's meant to be unarmed system without weapons.Ando Mierzwa:Yep.Jaredd Wilson:A lot of the weird things that people make fun of with Aikido.Jeremy Lesniak:What?Jaredd Wilson:Let me try to explain, Okay?Ando Mierzwa:Please.Jaredd Wilson:So, a lot of people make fun of Aikido, you know, like the famous one is like, "Well here grab my wrist." Well in a fight, is there anybody that can grab your wrist? No. But if I have a knife in my hand, people would grab my wrist to try and stop me from doing something. So that's where the Aikido moves come in, is with weapons involved.Jeremy Lesniak:So, Aikido is really effective when you attack people with a knife.Ando Mierzwa:I like that.Jaredd Wilson:You'd be surprised id --Jeremy Lesniak:You have to start your self-defense by stabbing someone with a knife. And as long as you do that, Aikido works great. That's my takeaway here.Jaredd Wilson:So, stab people and turn in circles. There, you're good.Jeremy Lesniak:I'm surprised there isn't like a variant of a wooden dummy for Aikido, honestly, with like some angles on those arms.Jaredd Wilson:Aikido has to be moving, that's the thing. Static Aikido does not work. And I will personally say it. The techniques won't work if there isn't movement involved. If you and I are on the dojo floor and I go, I'm going to do this technique to you and you don't want me to, it won't work. There's nothing I can do to make it work. There has to be movement involved on your part.Ando Mierzwa:Well, that's when you punch them in the nose to make them move right, Atemi?Jaredd Wilson:You can do stuff like that. Sure.Jaredd Wilson:Atemi, I mean, I actually have heard that there's a quota, I’ve heard the percentage change each time I hear it but you know, he said 90% of Aikido is Atemi.Ando Mierzwa:Right.Jaredd Wilson:So, I've also heard it 85 or 75 whatever, but.Ando Mierzwa:In other words, 90% of Aikido is karate.Jeremy Lesniak:Only the effective part. 90% of what's effective in Aikido is karate.Ando Mierzwa:Aikido comes in for the sweet little finished, little bow on top after karate has done the job.Jeremy Lesniak:The other 10% is wearing a skirt.Jaredd Wilson:Yeah, That’s right.Ando Mierzwa:Looking pretty.Jeremy Lesniak:A little belly dance at the end. Gotcha.Jaredd Lesniak:With a sword.Jeremy Lesniak:Back when I used to compete, I used Sai for a few years and wanted to try something different so, I switched over to a sword and wore a hakama while I competed. And it was great. I was like.Jaredd Wilson:They're fun.Jeremy Lesniak:I don't, I'm not wearing pants under this. This is amazing.Ando Mierzwa:Oh no.Jeremy Lesniak:It was wonderful. It was like, wooh! Now I get it.Ando Mierzwa:No, no, no.Jeremy Lesniak:No? You wear pants under your hakama?Ando Mierzwa:I wear a kilt under my hakama.Jeremy Lesniak:Oh, you know that officially, you're not supposed to wear anything under a kilt, right?Jaredd Wilson:Just lipstick.Jeremy Lesniak:Yeah. That's itchy.Jaredd Wilson:So historically, what a hakama is, is those are riding breeches. Those are like leather chaps essentially.Ando Mierzwa:Oh. Do you wear a leather chaps as well?Jaredd Wilson:Only when I'm doing Aikido.Jeremy Lesniak:Solo. During his solo practice. His solo play.Ando Mierzwa:Oh my God this is getting bad.Jeremy Lesniak:It's getting a little rough. It's almost blue. I think we’re, you know --Ando Mierzwa:Please Jared, you have to have a podcast episode named “Under the Hakama.”Jeremy Lesniak:I feel like it could be a whole show. It could be about exposing something in the martial arts. under the hakama.Ando Mierzwa:Exposing the dark underside of martial arts.Jeremy Lesniak:Yeah. Yeah. There was, there was almost a spit take there, Jaredd.Jaredd Wilson:That was close.Jeremy Lesniak:You're rave drinking on the show. Is that beer? Looks like beer?Jaredd Wilson:No, no, no. That was just soda. Just for caffeine.Jeremy Lesniak:I see. One of the things I find interesting, you know, we all have podcasts, we've been on each other's podcasts. We have three martial arts podcasts but anybody who is, well, are you doing the permutation math?Ando Mierzwa:Yes.Jeremy Lesniak:Is that the squinting?Ando Mierzwa:What, wait. Yes.Jeremy Lesniak:We did. I want to see if you come up with the same thing. There's only one thing that hasn't happened.Jaredd Wilson:So, for instance, I've been on Jeremy's podcast. He's been on mine.Ando Mierzwa:Here it comes. Here it comes.Jeremy Lesniak:Okay.Ando Mierzwa:Jaredd, I was meaning to ask you, you haven't answered the email. I'm hoping you can come and be a guest on the podcast. I just wanted to update my software so you can come in and high def. I only have this old Mac right now, but I'm getting a new one soon as I get the new software, please. I want to talk about Aikido’s in your house.Jeremy Lesniak:This is all a form of plan that we laid to get Jared on fight for happy life.Ando Mierzwa:We were messaging like three years ago on Twitter or something like that --Jaredd Wilson:Right.Ando Mierzwa:Wait. I do. I'd like to come on and talk about how Karate is the secret of Aikido. We must start with --Jeremy Lesniak:And now, and now the episode has to be titled Under the Hakama.Jaredd Wilson:Karate is a secret of Aikido.Jeremy Lesniak:Our shows were all really different and I think that, as I've gotten to know the two of you, the differences in our shows are a direct reflection of who we are as people. And I'm wondering if you've noticed that and if you like I, have you know, cause we've all been doing this for a while. You know, you take a step back, you take a step out and look back at what you have done, who you've spoken to, what you've talked about and realize that it's a pretty good reflection of who - I'm saying, I've noticed about this, about me. It's a pretty good reflection of who I think I am as a human being and as a martial artist.Jaredd Wilson:Why wasn't knows anytime I want to feel happy by myself, so.Jeremy Lesniak:Yeah.Jaredd Wilson:I know that it says anything about Ando, but he’s like, I'm like, I got to listen to Ando.Ando Mierzwa:I do the same thing. This guy is great. Who is this guy?Jaredd Wilson:Memory loss?Ando Mierzwa:I presume so, then you're saying Mr. Jeremy, that you're proud of the body of work that you've already - Do you do, obviously, you're the most heavy-duty podcaster here.Jeremy Lesniak:Prolific, I think its --Ando Mierzwa:We are, how many episodes now?Jeremy Lesniak:We're coming up on 500.Jaredd Wilson:7 billion.Ando Mierzwa:Yeah, you're 500, right? That's incredible. What can you give other podcasters and people out there? What's your number one tip having done 500 episodes --Jeremy Lesniak:Do more than everyone else. No, I'm just kidding. The look on your face, that was worth it. No, it's like martial arts, it goes back to the basics, right? It did the show for a while and realized that my $25 headset, which is in like a bin over there, was no longer the right tool. I had progressed from that tool and it was time to do something better like this microphone. We are at the point now where if we spent the money, you know, if I dropped, I mean the next step up on a mic is like 5 - 600 bucks and it's not going to be worth it in the quality but what we start, what we did over a year ago was I hired a part time producer to help book guests and do other things like that and so really, it's just been that iterative model that I think shows up in most everything in life but you know, we're talking about martial arts, so it shows up in martial arts. You know, you practice a straight punch 10 million times and then you learn, Oh, my shoulder's been out of position or I've been doing this wrong this whole time. Now I've got to go back and how do I make that better? And as you make that better, it makes everything else you've done better. How do I become a better interviewer? How do I become - where are they? I have these sheets, you know, I take notes while I'm recording an episode, you know, I have this sheet, yeah but I've got boxes to fill out and things, you know, cause our interview episodes have some structures to them and over the years that form has changed you know, so it's just this constant evolution. I don't think, there's a magic formula to it.Ando Mierzwa:Well, I mean, we listened to a lot of podcasts that are easy to turn off.Jeremy Lesniak:I would say most of them.Ando Mierzwa:Oh, there we go. Go for it, Jeremy. Tell everybody why everybody else's podcast suck.Jeremy Lesniak:It's like music. Okay. There's a lot of great music, but most music sucks.Ando Mierzwa:Wow.Jeremy Lesniak:There are a lot of great podcasts but there are also a lot of podcasts.Ando Mierzwa:That suck?Jeremy Lesniak:Yeah. Most podcasts suck.Ando Mierzwa:Name three.Jeremy Lesniak:Zero.Jaredd Wilson:Partial thoughts.Jeremy Lesniak:Huh?Jaredd Wilson:Partial thoughts.Jeremy Lesniak:No, I listened to your show. Stop.Jaredd Wilson:No. Honestly, the beginning one suck. Like you were saying, they got better.Jeremy Lesniak:My beginning ones sucked. We've all gotten better. Nobody - I'm sure if we went back and we looked at, I mean we've talked about them already because you can't have a martial arts podcast about discussing Bruce Lee. You can't, it just doesn't happen. If we went back to Bruce's first day of doing martial arts of playing martial arts, I'm sure he would suck. And nobody would ever, if you had video of him on day one and you posted it now, no one would believe it was him. You'd have two camps, 80% of people would say, this is Photoshop. No way. This is him. And the other 20% would say, well, that must be how we do this because it's Bruce Lee.Jaredd Wilson:Take it as gospel.Jeremy Lesniak:Yeah, exactly. You know, it's like if you look at Shimabukuro who founded, Isshin-ryu, the only video of him doing the kata, he's drunk because he wouldn't do it, so they got him drunk. And I've seen the video and they're awful. Anybody who looks at that, if you're checking it for anything other than what's that next move, if you're trying to use it as, this is the gospel of how I should do this form, it's silly.Ando Mierzwa:Well, that brings up a much bigger issue about the value of forms and what should you be looking at when you see someone do a form.Jeremy Lesniak:Audio quality?Ando Mierzwa:Was [0:39:53] loud enough? That guy was too quiet. He must suck.Jeremy Lesniak:How about you? So same question, you know, we're talking about how our shows have changed and what you've learned and what you would tell other people.Ando Mierzwa:You know, I used to just say, "Hey, just do it" but I think it's really nice just being you is always great, having a decent mic is really great and being able to kill your babies is really important. And that's the one thing I'm trying to get better at and this --Jeremy Lesniak:I think I know what you mean about that, but others might not. And I think Jaredd just threw up in his mouth a little.Ando Mierzwa:For every podcast episode I've got out, I've got about three or four outlined that I'm probably never going to record.Jeremy Lesniak:Wow.Ando Mierzwa:Because it might, you know, it's just not compelling enough, I don't feel like it or man, I keep looking at that one, I just don't want to do it, time's not right or you know, in the old days I used to write, I was like the first 40 or so of my podcasts, I’m --Jeremy Lesniak:I remember you saying that, that blew my mind.Ando Mierzwa:All written down and I was really careful about everything I was going to say and I wanted it because I respected the listener. I really wanted to value people's time. If you're really going to, out of your busy life, if you're going to click on my face and say, "I want to hear what this guy got to say" I wanted every word to be worth it. And I really hated, I still do, when I click on someone else's podcast and you hear them like opening up a can of something and they're sitting there, I'm just like, "Ugh", there's laughing with each other. And you're like - you know guys, I got stuff to do. I gave you a couple of minutes here and you're not even valuing my time so I'm gone. I got to go.Jeremy Lesniak:Yep.Ando Mierzwa:So that is the one thing, but that means killing your babies, that means I might be listening back if I wrote something back in the old days and it was like a 5,000-word script and I say, you know what, this section now that I'm re-listening to this, I think this is redundant. I need to cut this part out, make that edit, cut that part out and just say, that's the way it's got to be. And I'll tell you, the stupid thing is even now with videos, because I've kind of moved more into video than podcasting but when I kind of make the one-minute version of like a video it's 8 minutes or 10 minutes long, but for Instagram, you have to kind of make it a minute or you know, something for Twitter, a minute. And when I cut down something into a minute, I always think like, you know, that could have been the whole damn video, why did I make that eight or nine minutes? It's so much better this way. So, but there are some people who like to process and think and hear it a couple of different ways and other people just, what's the point? So again, that's the beautiful thing. You can have the best of both worlds. You can do the short version, do the long version. I think you should make that available as a podcaster make sure you're open to that kind of the Gary vee model. Don't just do one thing one way. In this day and age, if you really want to reach people, maybe you don't. Have your show and make that one, if you want a 3-hour show, great. But then, if you want to hire an editor or do it yourself and go through and kill some of those babies and get it down to a 20 minute one, get it down to a five minute one, and then put those out in different formats, fantastic. Then you have a way to reach everybody on their terms, cause not everybody's got - like somebody want to be an auto mechanic, you want to listen to a show like Joe Rogan show, you don't care if it's 3 hours, 4 hours long, because you're going to be in the shop all day, you just want some company. That's okay. But other people, "Hey, I got a half hour lunch break here. I just want to hear something for five minutes. So, let me put in the Chris Wilder show and maybe that'll be enough for right now." You know, so there's something for everyone. So, I think it's a smart podcaster, it's great when you can kind of have something for everybody. I'm a one man show, so I have not taken my own advice on that, but if I ever get someone on board, if that's one of the first things I'm going to do, go back to all my old content, find some snippets that you can break out and then create like a whole separate channel of those. Okay. I'm done. Sorry.Jeremy Lesniak:Jaredd, why did you say your early episodes suck?Jaredd Wilson:It wasn't focused enough. If you, I don't know how - when you guys started listening, but way back when there was like four of us kind of just sitting around in the dojo afterwards, once I moved up to Nashville, I moved away from, you know, the original host with me, I was able to do it - I say it this way, but a hundred percent my way. So, I was able to focus in exactly on what it was I wanted to talk about and who I wanted to talk to, so there was a shift in the style of the show as opposed to like a, I don't know, a morning drive to work fun show what it was kind of at the beginning, the morning zoo crew type of thing. I've slowly shifted it over time to be a really in-depth look at a lot of weird academic stuff about martial arts.Jeremy Lesniak:Which is what I appreciate about what you do in your show and that's why I listen to your show. I'm sure we all listen to other podcasts and non-martial arts content, but I don't listen to a lot of martial arts podcasts. I listened to your shows because you're my friends and because you keep me trying to push forward, I don't know why that's funny.Ando Mierzwa:I was crying.Jeremy Lesniak:Oh, you look humorous. What a jerk. I'm not this guy's friend. But there are, I mean, there are shows out there that, you know, just like you said, and I've stopped checking them out when they first go live, because I'm not going to invest myself in a show and suffer through those early episodes as they figure things out when it takes, you know, 5,10 episodes for them to really get a groove going and once they do, then I'll check it out. But I find more often than not even with martial arts content, like you were saying that, it's a group of people thinking that they're going to monetize hanging out and drinking.Ando Mierzwa:Right. Oh, that's a good one and I just said that. Yeah.Jeremy Lesniak:And you know what, I'm not monetized - I'm barely able to monetize anything that we do and I don't do any beer drinking during our show. I mean, this is a can of soda, not even sponsored for this seltzer that I'm drinking.Jaredd Wilson:I get free books.Jeremy Lesniak:I pay full price. Wasn't even on sale at the store. It's a long tail, right? I mean, it's a tie into other things. I mean, I would assume you both felt that if you take a look at the value that you've taken from what you've invested, it's, I mean, if you put a dollar amount on what you've invested in your show, you're way below minimum wage but what about the connections and the experiences and the way that it's enhanced, your martial arts and your understanding? I mean, I have friends throughout the world because of what we do and how crazy and cool is that.Ando Mierzwa:Yeah. In your hometown, you might be the only weirdo, but thanks to this kind of stuff, you've got an army of weirdos you can align with, so it's yeah. It's very great. It's great, right.Jeremy Lesniak:Jaredd asked me a question while we were apparently not getting soundtrack, right? before you came on and I'm curious if you've had the same thing that Jaredd's question was, if I had been recognized because of the show, and I'm wondering if you have.Ando Mierzwa:Wow, it's an audio format, you've been, have you been recognized from the audio show?Jeremy Lesniak:I have. I have.Ando Mierzwa:That's incredible. But because of your tied into other things, obviously I was --Jeremy Lesniak:I was stopped in a crowd. “Are you the guy that does this podcast?”Ando Mierzwa:Nice. Wait, do they say it like that? Just the podcast?Jeremy Lesniak:It wasn't like a derogatory question. You know what I mean?Ando Mierzwa:No, I mean, there wasn’t pretty much any group nowadays and go, "Hey, are you the guy that has videos on Instagram?" Like, "Yeah, yeah."Jeremy Lesniak:It was a few years ago, truthfully. I think it was three years ago.Jaredd Wilson:It's fishing, cat fishing.Jeremy Lesniak:"Oh, you are that guy who does that podcast, listen, I got something to sell you here. Hey, sign here."Ando Mierzwa:Yeah.Jeremy Lesniak:You've been recognized at all Ando?Ando Mierzwa:Yeah. Yeah, a couple of times standing in the middle of the street ones talking to some guys after a workout and a car pulled over and the guy and I was just, you know, nothing special and a guy came over, "Hey, I know you, aren't you Ando?" like, holy smokes. I thought the guy was going to stab me. I didn't know what was going on. I thought he did Aikido, I thought was about to get stabbed. And then just recently, yeah, I put it on my Instagram because I was just so flattered it's only happened a couple of times, but that's it, someone comes walking up like, "Oh my gosh, you're the guy" I'm like, "Yeah."Jeremy Lesniak:And then the guy who smiles.Ando Mierzwa:Well, that's a nice thing to be remembered for. I don't mind that, but this is why it's difficult because if I'm sitting around, I'm yelling at it with my wife or mocking, and running around and then some guy goes, "Hey, happy life guy" “What?” So yes. But the answer is yes. Jaredd, do you have a cult following on the campus going?Jaredd Wilson:I was again.Ando Mierzwa:Or people flying over from Europe now that you're a HEMA file?Jared: Yeah, I did it for like one semester. It's not like I'm doing HEMA but I went to a CombatCon, which is a large convention.Jeremy Lesniak:Oh.Jaredd Wilson:And I was a presenter on martial arts podcast. And while I was watching another presentation, a guy recognized me, I guess by my voice he must have, but. So that was actually pretty cool.Jeremy Lesniak:He's not really into HEMA, he just goes to conventions.Jaredd Wilson:Well, like theoretically, I'm doing one, the same CombatCon in August and I'll be doing it on Japanese swordsmanship for them. So --Ando Mierzwa:Did you say, theoretically, you're going?Jaredd Wilson:Well, you know, with Corona --Jeremy Lesniak:Theoretically, we're all doing things because the --Ando Mierzwa:A spaceship --Jeremy Lesniak:The more --Ando Mierzwa:-- mars.Jeremy Lesniak:The more things get pushed back, a lot of hours of daylight savings time to fix this. Oh man. I mean, we did have some, Jared, you jotted some questions, didn't you? About --Jaredd Wilson:Yeah, actually --Jeremy Lesniak:Things related to the current climate because --Jaredd Wilson:Someone just put up on it if you want to go for this one. Robert Escobar just asked, if we have a favorite esoteric technique that you think is very practical. I don't know what he means by esoteric.Jeremy Lesniak:What's an esoteric technique?Ando Mierzwa:Maybe something that's not commonly taught or, you know, punch to the face everybody knows but.Jeremy Lesniak:Oh, I do have one.Jaredd Wilson:Okay.Jeremy Lesniak:Pulling up on the bridge of the nose. Because --Ando Mierzwa:The philtrum.Jeremy Lesniak:The philtrum? Is that what that's called?Ando Mierzwa:Yeah. Philtrum.Jeremy Lesniak:Okay. Pulling up on the philtrum.Ando Mierzwa:Excellent.Jeremy Lesniak:Because it breaks people's balance. And so, when I teach self-defense, don't teach eye gouges and throat rips and groin stomps. I teach, pulling up on the philtrum and pinching inside of people's thighs and stuff that --Ando Mierzwa:I'm not sure I liked the judgemental tone in that gouging eyes and the grabbing throats comment. Okay, well you go defend yourself from a knife wielding attacker who was killing your wife --Jaredd Wilson:Using Aikido.Ando Mierzwa:Well, you go do it the nice way. Okay.Jeremy Lesniak:No, it's not. It's not meant to be judgemental.Ando Mierzwa:Sounded like it.Jeremy Lesniak:It probably did. It probably did. It's eight o'clock and I want a glass of scotch.Ando Mierzwa:Oh, go for it, please. Don't let us --Jeremy Lesniak:No, no, no.Jaredd Wilson:I'll be a whole different --Jeremy Lesniak:This would go sideways. This would be under the hakama.Ando Mierzwa:Under the hoodie.Jeremy Lesniak:Yeah. No, but here's my issue, and I did an episode on this, but my issue is that, there are people who will say, "Okay, I'm going to take 30 minutes. I'm going to show you how to rip throats and gouge eyes and forget about the psychological piece." where most people will wait until it is too late to deploy those movements because they're like, "Ah, I don't know. Like, is he trying to kill me? I'm not sure." and by the time they're sure, it's too late. And so I think it's important to have some movements that you can deploy and you're like, "Oh, you were just looking for some money, I'm sorry I ripped your throat out" is a lot worse than, "Oh, I'm sorry I pulled up on your philtrum."Jaredd Wilson:Hmm. So, you're saying those are more --Jeremy Lesniak:Less injurious.Jaredd Wilson:And easily available techniques at the same time.Jeremy Lesniak:Yeah. People aren't going to wait to the point. And I think its important aspect of the toolbox, it is not the entirety of the toolbox. So, if we're talking esoteric, that's my answer.Ando Mierzwa:Man. That's one of the craziest things I've ever heard. Okay moving on.Jaredd Wilson:Do you have anything Ando or...?Ando Mierzwa:Spitting. Yeah. Spit in his face.Jaredd Wilson:Okay.Ando Mierzwa:You can close range with it really quickly and makes them blink flinch. Nobody likes it, nowadays it's probably could kill somebody with coronavirus.Jeremy Lesniak:Do you practice it?Ando Mierzwa:[0:52:03]Jeremy Lesniak:For accuracy and distance?Ando Mierzwa:Well, it doesn't have to be too accurate. With watermelon seeds, yes, I can do it, I can take out a knife. I can hit right in the philtrum with a watermelon seed my friend. I can break a board. If you give me a big enough butternut squash, I could probably break a board or two.Jeremy Lesniak:Big little seeds.Jaredd Wilson:I had a sensei that would, he goes, "Now I'm going to teach you a technique" and he would go like this and then just walk towards the person.Jeremy Lesniak:Oh, gross.Jaredd Wilson:You wouldn't do it --Ando Mierzwa:But it works.Jaredd Wilson:Exactly, that was his --Ando Mierzwa:It works.Jaredd Wilson:He goes, "Now they're running away.Jeremy Lesniak:When people --Jaredd Wilson:I don't know if that's an esoteric technique.Jeremy Lesniak:When people say, how would you defend yourself against like five guys? I'm putting my hand down the back of my pants and like, take my hand out.Ando Mierzwa:Good Lord, man.Jeremy Lesniak:Because that's gross. Nobody wants to mess with that. Right? That's my best shot to get out. I've spent a lot of time thinking about this stuff.Ando Mierzwa:That's excellent. No, it's psychological warfare, that's a big part --Jeremy Lesniak:You're right.Ando Mierzwa:It's not all sidekicks.Jeremy Lesniak:I like how I brought the conversation to a screaming haul.Ando Mierzwa:How do you, what are you supposed to say to that? I'm worried about your mental health at this point.Jeremy Lesniak:I haven't, I live alone. I haven't been spending much time with other people for a while. There's been a lot of zoom calls. I'm not at the point where I've done any of them pencils yet.Ando Mierzwa:I don't want to ask you to prove that right now by standing up, but I'm going to take your word --Jeremy Lesniak:I'm definitely wearing pants. It's cold. It's April in Vermont.Ando Mierzwa:Hand check. Everybody makes sure you have two hands up. Okay thank you.Jeremy Lesniak:It's still cold enough that the maple trees are running, so.Ando Mierzwa:Oh, very nice. You make syrup?Jeremy Lesniak:I, sadly enough, only learn this year that the maple trees in my yard were appropriate to tap. I thought you had to have sugar maples. And come to learn it. No, you don't. Any maple tree will work. And I have these huge, beautiful red maples and I went, "All right" And I went down to the store and I grabbed some buckets and --Ando Mierzwa:Wow.Jeremy Lesniak:And one day, pulled out close to a half gallon from one tree of sap, which it's yeah, it's nuts. It's nuts. And --Ando Mierzwa:I believe Whistlekick has a brand-new product here.Jeremy Lesniak:It takes so much work to boil. I just drank it; I prefer this sap. Just some, yeah.Jaredd Wilson:I've never tried that.Jeremy Lesniak:Well, it's not economical to ship around, but there are, we have a couple companies in Vermont that are trying to make maple seltzer a thing, but it's quite tasty. I mean, it's --Jaredd Wilson:I would imagine it's sweet, but does it still taste like maple?Jeremy Lesniak:It's like water with a hint of maple. It's like maple, you know, if this is water with a hint of lemon, you know, it's water with a hint of maple but there's all kinds of good stuff in it, that when you boil it, you kill lots of enzymes and whatever. It's healthy. It's tasty. Cool.Jaredd Wilson:You also get a Vermont biology lesson too.Jeremy Lesniak:Right. Right. Hey, I mean, what's better than that?Jaredd Wilson:Well, one of the questions we had kind of written down, because we were talking kind of in the, you know, the time of Corona here is can online teaching substitute for teaching or is it only for supplements? Because for a long-time people said, you can't learn martial arts from a book. You can't learn martial arts online. But now they're all stuck. We're like, well, here's a book on martial arts, here's an online deal for martial arts.Jeremy Lesniak:Buy my book, buy my DVDs.Jaredd Wilson:Right.Jeremy Lesniak:Subscribe to my YouTube channel.Jaredd Wilson:So.Ando Mierzwa:Yes, please. All of the above. Yes please.Jaredd Wilson:There's your spit take.Jeremy Lesniak:I mean, I don't have DVDs, but I definitely have the others.Jaredd Wilson:So, what is the value for online teaching for martial arts? You know, we talked about – you know, you mentioned the kata but if you're drunk, does that matter?Ando Mierzwa:Yeah, of course online is helpful. Of course, it. When I was a kid I was, you know, a lost teen looking for direction like I said, and Bruce Lee was an inspiration, but I didn't have any money, I didn't have a car. All we had… there was no internet. So back then, you know, I'd walk to the library, you'd find some old Bruce Tenner or Tenger book, you know, whatever. And you're looking at kind of some drawings and old photos and all kinds of terrible, well not terrible books, I mean, but you know what I mean, not a lot. So, in that era, can you learn from these books how to do a judo throw? No, not so much. So nowadays, if I'm still, if I'm a kind of a lost young person and I'm looking to get into martial arts, or there's something about it that's calling to me. The fact that you can go on to YouTube or the internet and find Scholarly articles and historical things and videos and demonstrations and courses and one-on-one video chats and lessons, the guidance and mentorship and teaching abilities of teaching capabilities, it's miraculous. And no master in the history of martial arts, China, Japan, Korea, or I don't care where you at HEMA, whatever you're talking about has ever had a resource like this. So, I think it's ridiculous if anybody ever puts down the internet or video as a valid teaching tool because I guarantee if the Shaolin temple had access to the internet back then, there's no reason why they wouldn't have said "Yes, here's the chief Abbott. We want to him to show you this form. Here's his monkey form. You should have this recorded somewhere." where they keep it in - they had books, so why not have videos? I mean, it's just, either you want to learn or you don't, if you want to learn, you're going to use every tool possible so, the only question is what is that enough and how much and how do you use it? Of course, that's a big other discussion, but please absolutely incorporate videos, books, conversations, podcasts, all of this should be enriching your martial arts journey for sure.Jeremy Lesniak:There sounds to be a little bit of fire in your answer there am I picking up?Ando Mierzwa:Absolutely. Cause I wish I'd had this when I was a kid. That's all.Jeremy Lesniak:It sounds like it's more than that though. It sounds like you're --Ando Mierzwa:And I wish for every kid in the world to have it now.Jeremy Lesniak:Okay.Ando Mierzwa:That's why I'm trying to do something. When I got to a certain age, I'm like, "You know what, what changed my life the most? Martial arts. That was an investment that has never failed me. People disappoint this degree doesn't guarantee a job, any families this way or that way. Okay. Every minute I put into martial arts, it pays me back. I've never been disappointed with the effort I put into martial arts. It is the best investment you can make. And like I said, when I was a younger kid I didn't know where to put that energy and that spirit in how to get where to invest my time and energy I had, "Oh, I got these Bruce Lee books" but that wasn't much I'm sitting there trying to do Chi sao on a ladder in my garage like, what is this? I don't know. You know, I had no one to ask a question to, no one to buy a course from. So nowadays, the fact that I can be part of a growing body of smart, wise, good people who can offer that 13 year old out in the jungles who doesn't have access to anything but a phone and that you could talk to that person and email that person and send them a video and give feedback and tell them they're heading in the right direction or not. “Hey, stop doing that kind of training, you're going to hurt your shoulder” or :Hey, do this, that's going to help you more and I know what you're doing.” I mean, come on. This is the best usage of technology possible and I'm happy to be part of it. I'm only frustrated because I want to do more and I still got a day job and, you know, things we got to do. But that's the dream, right? Before I die, I'm trying to just be one of those people who can, people can feel comfortable coming to with their questions, with their journey and say, what do you think about this? And I can say, well, I might be able to help you, maybe not. I have some resources available. Here you go. I just, I would like to die having left that.Jaredd Wilson:It sounds like you want it to be a supplement, not the main source of information though.Ando Mierzwa:Well, that's up to every person, right? If I had had I mean, it depends on how you use it and what kind of information you're looking for and what your goals are. Obviously, if you want to be a black belt in Brazilian jujitsu, you can't do that on your own in a garage. That's just not possible. If you're trying to just start to take control of your body. Like I was, that was my first goal. I didn't think about the wisdom of the martial arts in the life changing aspects. I just wanted to get in jail, Bruce Lee, he's in control, he's cocky, he's confident I want to be like that guy so, it starts off, for me it was physical fitness. So, for a while, for years, that was enough. But then at some point, so I need more though and I need technical information, I don't know if I understand these flips and risks locks, I don't know what that is. Cause now, you have to go find a teacher and then at some point that wasn't enough. I wanted the next thing that you keep searching and searching and searching but again, back then you had to drive around if you didn't have that school, then you were just screwed or panther videos in the back of some magazine. Like "I can't afford all these videos" and "How good are these going to be" I don't know. But so, it depends on what someone's looking for. If they have a training partner that they can work with, maybe there's, I think those like those Gracie Garage things, are fantastic use of modern technology where you can enroll, I mean, I'm not doing a plug I'm not even a Gracie student but I admire that model of saying, here's like a source of the big university, here's a bunch of videos and then we encourage you to have a little garage groups, where you have some buddies that can come over and practice this stuff, and we'll even make a list of those things worldwide so, if you're in a town you want to go visit someone's garage, you can go train with those people and create this community of all these like-minded people that would never have had any connection with anybody before. So, I'm rather a half full than half empty kind of guy. I'd rather have, if all you can do is video, then just do video. If you can do video in a seminar once a month and travel a little bit, then do that. You can get to a school twice a week and do some video, great, do that. If you can be in a classroom every day and have training partners every day, then you probably don't need video, but you still might want to listen to a podcast and read some people like this. So, it's all depends on your formula, what are you looking for?Jeremy Lesniak:How much do you think?Jaredd Wilson:Let's say, I like that one.Ando Mierzwa:That's all I got.Jeremy Lesniak:I think we'd all agree that in person instruction is more effective assuming a quality instructor. But how much, I mean, I grew up, you know, everybody, disparate books, everybody disparaged learning from videos, you know that the video VHS herself, mail in the tape, you know, for your next [01:03:36] rank sort of courses. How much of that was trying to protect the martial arts schools and you know, sort of really coming from the same place as, "Don't go train anywhere else. You can only train with me."Jaredd Wilson:Well, I think in general, martial arts is all inside a problem of secrecy. You know, we've always, because it comes from this war time idea. And if the other people know what techniques I like to do well, then that means they can defeat me and kill my village type of thing.Jeremy Lesniak:Which became, "I can't teach you this move cause it's too deadly and you're not ready for it."Jaredd Wilson:Right? So, there's a lot of secrecy that's traditionally been in martial arts, but I think most of us realize that this is not a secret thing anymore, this is for betterment, this is for self-defense . You know, nobody is going to be, you know, karate chopping on the battlefield, so to speak, anymore. So, I think once we got over that secrecy idea, now all the flood of books, all the flooded videos on the internet, you know, I don't have to hide what I'm doing anymore.Ando Mierzwa:Yes, you do. Yeah. Now more than ever. That's why I don't put my form on video. That's why I talk about how to punch straight. These are the video most people want.Jeremy Lesniak:That's why the first actual - it took years. But the first thing we actually put out that said, "Here's what you do for training" is a strength and conditioning program. It has nothing to do with technique because I am terrified of putting anything out on technique.Ando Mierzwa:Yeah, and you should be. Because you're teaching people how to grab the philtrum, so.Jaredd Wilson:That sounds --Jeremy Lesniak:It works man, it works.Ando Mierzwa:Not on me baby.Jeremy Lesniak:I could take the smallest child. If they could reach your nose, they can push your head back there.Ando Mierzwa:That was a pretty big "If you" got there.Jeremy Lesniak:Well, I'm assuming that you're beating up moderately kind of children and not very small ones.Ando Mierzwa:I beat up kids for a living so I'm all for that.Jeremy Lesniak:I've heard you talk about it.Ando Mierzwa:If they can't reach my philtrum, so I feel pretty good with my whack-a-mole hammer fist on top of their head. This is - no, there's no defense for this.Jeremy Lesniak:His whole kata is this?Jaredd Wilson:The windmill effects. Yes.Ando Mierzwa:I can take out 25-year old’s, clickety split.Jaredd Wilson:It always brings up the Seinfeld episode.Jeremy Lesniak:Yes. Have you not seen that?Ando Mierzwa:Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.Jeremy Lesniak:There was an app in the early days of Facebook that was like, how many five-year-old’s can you beat in a fight?Ando Mierzwa:All of them.Jeremy Lesniak:Well, the, the numbers, I mean, they got really big. It was, you know, and you saw people posting results. Like I could take 39, five-year-old.Jaredd Wilson:Is that a thought exercise? We really need to have.Jeremy Lesniak:It's not, it's not. Let's - Jaredd, what else you got on your list there?Jaredd Wilson:Well here's one, just because this is something I've been noticing in the last year or two is the state of martial arts entertainment right now. We've been getting a lot more kind of almost retro martial arts movies, sort of the martial arts is the point of the movie, I'll put it that way. We've been having TV series, Netflix has done a couple of them. It seems to be that we're having kind of a renaissance of the actual martial art movie right now.Jeremy Lesniak:Is it a Renaissance or is it a big budget saying, you know, we can make a martial arts movie really cheap.Jaredd Wilson:Well, they do like for example, the John Wick movies, right?Jeremy Lesniak:Yeah. That's not really cheap.Jaredd Wilson:Exactly. So, the focus is on the martial arts though. So, there's a period - I'm going to say probably about 2000 on where even though the movies had martial arts, it wasn't the focus of the movie. The character was someone who also did martial arts, it wasn't - this is a martial artist as the character.Jeremy Lesniak:The martial arts drive the story, it drives the action.Jaredd Wilson:Correct.Jeremy Lesniak:And for me, I think you're right. And I, I think Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon was the turning point, which turned into the Rush Hour series and people realized, huh, we can have action and then comedy, we can have all these other things alongside martial arts, it doesn't have to be one or the other.Jaredd Wilson:Like I said, Netflix has been, what was the one they just had with [1:08:24]Jeremy Lesniak:Triple?Jaredd Wilson:Something assassin.Jeremy Lesniak:Rogue assassins?Jaredd Wilson:Yes. That's it.Jeremy Lesniak:Yeah.Jaredd Wilson:So, it just seems to be something that I've noticed, is that we're starting to-Jeremy Lesniak:I hope so.Jaredd Wilson:We're starting to put that focus back on martial arts.Jeremy Lesniak:Yeah.Ando Mierzwa:Why do you hope so, Jeremy?Jeremy Lesniak:Because for the same reason that you discovered Bruce Lee and started training. I think that for certain demographic of people seeing martial arts in movies and in television is a gateway and it opens their mind to the possibility of training. I want to be that guy, I want to do that because let's face it, we don't have heroes and big-name celebrities the way most industries do. All of our big names are sorry to say, they're old. You know, you ask person on the street, name some martial artists, they're going to go, "Bruce Lee." he's gone. "Chuck Norris" and he's doing great but he just turned 80?Jaredd Wilson:Something like that.Jeremy Lesniak:84? So, he's aging out and who else do we have?Jaredd Wilson:Van Damme, Seagal, but again, those are all --Jeremy Lesniak:But a lot of people would, I think, would question, are they legitimate martial artists or are they movie actors? You know, many of us know, you know, some of their credibility and some of what they've done. But I think that they are movie actors first, Bruce Lee, I think to most people, they would look at him and say, "No, that guy's a martial artist." they don't understand martial arts, I think they understand that there's different quality to Bruce Lee. And I think that that's why he's endured. And I would like to see some more celebrities. Kids start playing football because they watch football and they want to be like their favorite football star in sports. And we see similar things in science and we as a pursuit, as a hobby, as a lifestyle, we don't have that. So, more movies might equal that.Ando Mierzwa:Nah.Jeremy Lesniak:No? You don't think so?Ando Mierzwa:There's never been a shortage of martial arts films. Kung Fu Panda comes out. I don't get a line out the door of kids wanting to do Kung Fu or Karate Kid got remade, I didn't get a line out the door of all these kids suddenly want to do Karate. It's just you know, I'd like to believe that there's that kind of influence but new Power Rangers movie out. New enrollments? No. And that's why I really don't care about Karate being in the Olympics. If anything, it makes me upset because that's a whole other topic because there's a big difference between watching something for entertainment value, and then participating in thinking you can do it. And for me, martial arts should be something that's for everybody. I want a 60-year-old and a five-year-old and a 20-year-old, all thinking, "That's something for me. I want to empower myself. I want to defend myself. I want to feel better in my body and my own psychology." and when you see things only done by special effects people or elite athletes or Olympic gold medalists, then it just looks like, "Oh, that's just something else I can't do, that's not for me." I love gymnastics. I watch it every Olympics, it's my favorite. Those people were like superhuman, but I've never once thought about going out to sign up at a gymnastic center and seeing if I can do an iron cross on the rings because I know it would break my arms. So --Jeremy Lesniak:I tried, they're very hard. Yeah, no you Cross-fitters.Ando Mierzwa:Yeah, but you know what I'm saying, so it's like martial arts out in the public eye. It's always been on the public eye. You can go up and down and budgets and that's fine, but everybody always knows what Karate is. There's not, that's been around for decades and decades. Everybody knows and for most part it's got a good reputation. "Oh, that's where you go for discipline and respect and Yeah, yeah, it's got a good reputation” but still, you know, traditional martial arts, me feeling like it's a slide but I don't see like, Oh, well that means that all these boxing gyms are suddenly spiking up. All these little kids signing up to be MMA fighters, you know, you get that couple of 20 year old dudes, you get a little bit hyped up like, "I could do that" but not as many as I think you should see for such a huge sport nowadays. I think it's a lot of fandom like, Oh, I see that. I like it. It's fun to watch people flipping around on wires in the movies. It's fun to see people get knocked out in the cage, but that's not for me. That's for actors and that's for elite athletes and I'm just happy to buy a ticket. But I wish it was something that was really just for regular people. Only that'd be my dream. Martial arts is like a secret weapon for the nerd, for the underdog, for the person who couldn't make the track team, couldn't make the football team, is not the star, but yet there's some place you can go. That's why I said like, that's why I knew I couldn't be like Arnold and sly. I'm seeing all these role models of male Dom, they're all jacked up and I wasn't built like that and I knew I never could be. I tried lifting weights and all that stuff. Nope. That's why Bruce Lee was so intriguing to me. I was like, "This guy is the star of this thing. He's skinny, he's small. he's about 35 soaking wet, but he's just got attitude. I just liked this guy's attitude. Holy smokes." So, if a skinny guy who's not even from my country can come over here and be a star and be in control of his body and have that kind of confidence, that's for me, I want that. You know, so I don't, you know, I'm seeing some guy do "Quack, gold metal, low he's smacked that guy really fast with the punch." Like, well, that's not for me.Jeremy Lesniak:Fortunately, Olympics got pushed back a year or so.Ando Mierzwa:What's that?Jeremy Lesniak:The Olympics got pushed back a year, so.Jaredd Wilson:Fourth time for everyone to get on a -Jeremy Lesniak:There's a time to convince everyone, absolutely.Ando Mierzwa:Well, it'll be on, it won't get covered. That's the other argument. "Well, it'll be great for the exposure. People will sign up for credit." Really? I have a lot of fencing schools you see popping up everywhere, there a lot of - they took wrestling out, wrestling’s been there since the first Olympics. I don't see -Jeremy Lesniak:Can they go back in, though, or did it come out again?Ando Mierzwa:Either way, no, one's watching it. I can't even get coverage of it. ESPN 27 maybe, it's somewhere like in the middle of the night, I tried to watch Taekwondo last time, couldn't barely find it. So, you know, I'm not seeing that, Oh, this is great exposure. We're going to get from --Jeremy Lesniak:Even Taekwondo people don't watch Taekwondo?Ando Mierzwa:What? Well, there you go. That's interesting.Jeremy Lesniak:Have you seen… you see the new uniforms?Ando Mierzwa:For the Olympics?Jeremy Lesniak:The taekwondo? Yeah.Jaredd Wilson:No.Ando Mierzwa:I have no tinfoil.Jeremy Lesniak:You know what? You keep talking. I can pull this up and I can share it with you.Ando Mierzwa:I can search on my phone while you're.Jeremy Lesniak:The other people will be able to see it too.Jaredd Wilson:You know, kind of tied into that same idea. I think one of the problems, and I don't know if it's universal for it's just American, but we definitely have this idea that martial arts is for kids, it is not something adults do.Ando Mierzwa:Traditional martial arts is definitely seen that way. Yeah. But again, it's our own fault. It's traditional martial artists own fault by not really presenting it the right way, in the full spectrum change your life kind of way, it is just… I remember when I started martial arts, my dad was just like, “Oh, that's just for knuckleheads.” I'm like, "Well, but yeah, but look at this, Bruce Lee books, if you see all this stuff, he's talking about the philosophy and Taoism all this cool stuff." he's like, "No, that was for knuckleheads. The only martial arts I ever knew were just muscle heads trying to punch each other all the time." and like, "Oh, okay". Well, that's an interesting image. Now it's gone completely the other way. Instead of dudes in basements, it's kids in the mall. It's such a different image now and somewhere in the middle is the right way, was the right one.Jaredd Wilson:Yeah. But now we you apply those knuckleheads punching each other to the MMA part, not in the traditional part.Ando Mierzwa:Right. Well, yeah, a lot of, you know, the critics would write, "If you don't see the art in it, you don't get the -- " It's too bad.Jeremy Lesniak:Oh, can you see it?Ando Mierzwa:Screen-sharing. Oh, this is --Jeremy Lesniak:Can you see this over here?Jaredd Wilson:Oh, there it is.Ando Mierzwa:Oh, what am I seeing here?Jeremy Lesniak:I don't know --Jaredd Wilson:It looks Jedi-ish.Ando Mierzwa:Are those? like, they're like yoga pants?Jeremy Lesniak:Basically. With pads. With shin pads.Jaredd Wilson:Gotcha. Built into it.Ando Mierzwa:So, they are covering, that's not just a white mannequin. I mean, those are actually leggings with pads.Jeremy Lesniak:Yeah. They're leggings. Yeah. There's some - if you look, there are some interesting images with people wearing them and when they, when it went live, I'll bring it back to.Ando Mierzwa:Yeah, I'm seeing some of the other images there. I see.Jeremy Lesniak:When they went live, everyone just assumed it was a joke.Ando Mierzwa:We're like --Jeremy Lesniak:That's not real. That's not real. And then finally, a little bit Taekwondo was like "Ah, no, that's, what we're going to use now?"Jaredd Wilson:Also helping the image.Jeremy Lesniak:No.Ando Mierzwa:No leotards, usually don't help.Jaredd Wilson:Yeah.Ando Mierzwa:It's a, gymnastic -- So, what's the reasoning, just so they can see the leg --Jeremy Lesniak:Athletic fabrics and an athletic cut.Ando Mierzwa:Oh.Jeremy Lesniak:Because athletes should be wearing the, you know, modern --Ando Mierzwa:Why not the top of the, back then? Why not do the whole you know --Jeremy Lesniak:Because you want to cover as much of that as you can. I don't actually understand. I looked into it only enough to make fun of it.Ando Mierzwa:Ooh. That's always a --Jeremy Lesniak:Which is really not a good way to go, but.Ando Mierzwa:Yeah. I'm going to do some research before I figure it out. What's up?Jeremy Lesniak:Cool.Jaredd Wilson:Let's ask our last question here, I guess.Jeremy Lesniak:Yeah. let's do that.Ando Mierzwa:Okay, I'm starving.Jaredd Wilson:So, the last one, now that we're kind of all stuck at our home talking to each other on computers. What is it that you miss most about the in-person training?Ando Mierzwa:What do you miss the most?Jaredd Wilson:Yeah, being in the dojo.Ando Mierzwa:Oh, I really miss the antibiotics.Jeremy Lesniak:I miss the feeling I get when someone throws a technique and they slip, they hit me. They hit harder than they mean to. And I know that in that moment, I've sacrificed a bit of my body to their benefit of training. That because they missed and they hit me because there was a reaction. I know that I'm contributing to their training.Ando Mierzwa:Okay. Now just a minute here, St. Jeremy. Now hold it, one second.Jeremy Lesniak:No, It's not.Ando Mierzwa:Just a minute. This is without Scott. You're talking like that?Jeremy Lesniak:Yeah.Ando Mierzwa:I just love everybody. And when they punched me right in the face, it's the best thing ever.Jeremy Lesniak:It's ironic that you're calling me out for being nice and happy.Ando Mierzwa: That's insane.Jeremy Lesniak:But it's true. No, I genuinely - I'm not saying I like when they break my nose.Ando Mierzwa:Okay.Jeremy Lesniak:But --Ando Mierzwa:We got to spar immediately, I got to get out there, I got to get on a plane. I got to give me some maple syrup drink and some --Jeremy Lesniak:You'll be, it'll be quarantined for two weeks, but you can have my garage.Ando Mierzwa:Well, that's very giving of you. And if that's not just your --Jeremy Lesniak:That's the main thing that I miss, right? I'm still able to train. I'm still able to, you know, do stuff on my own. I don't like hurting other people. So, the reverse in that equation, I would rather be the one that gets hit too hard, than hit someone too hard.Ando Mierzwa:We have to talk about that Jeremy.Jeremy Lesniak:There there's some stuff in there that we could unpack.Ando Mierzwa:Yeah, we have to unpack. That's it. We're coming back for that. Right nowJeremy Lesniak:Instead of under the hakama, it's on the couch.Ando Mierzwa:Yeah. I'm going to write that one down here. That one.Jeremy Lesniak:He's, he's taking notes.Ando Mierzwa:That one I'm coming back and invite Jeremy --Jeremy Lesniak:How about you?Ando Mierzwa:And then I'm going to start taunting you with emails that cut right to your very soul about hurting people. I can't wait. Got it.Jeremy Lesniak:Great I'm excited. This is where I'm going to put my hood up --Ando Mierzwa:There you go, into the sift Lord. Here he comes.Jeremy Lesniak:I only wear hoodies that can fit my headphones. Look at that.Jaredd Wilson:That's part of the design quality of Whistlekick.Jeremy Lesniak:No, but the fact that you can wear your helmet. Not that I know why you would want to do that, but you could cause I've done it. I feel like Kenny from South park. All right. Somebody else answered that question so I can make fun of them.Jaredd Wilson:Okay. Well, again, my art, you kind of need to. So, I miss a lot of that feedback from them. In fact, this is kind of the same thing you're talking about. It's just not the, I don't want to get the hit part of it, but I need the, I can do a lot of solo training, I can do a lot of the body mechanics, but there has to be the feedback, it has to be there for me to keep advancing in what I'm doing.Jeremy Lesniak:Yeah, I mean otherwise what's the point of all this.Ando Mierzwa:Yeah.Jaredd Wilson:Right.Ando Mierzwa:We got to have the feedback.Jeremy Lesniak:That's what I'm saying.Ando Mierzwa:Well, no, you're talking about giving feedback to other people.Jeremy Lesniak:Well, somebody has to, it's a two-way street. Like it's just the question was which do you miss the most that you miss giving people feedback, more than getting feedback for your own progress, is the part that I thought was interesting. That's all.Ando Mierzwa:I mean, I look, I'm a giver. I let people beat me up. I work with kids. You think I'm not, of course I get beat up for a living. Yeah. So, I get it. The value of being there to help other people through their journey, that's what being a teacher is all about.Jeremy Lesniak:Yeah.Ando Mierzwa:You miss being a teacher more than you miss being a student?Jeremy Lesniak:Yes. Okay.Jaredd Wilson:Much more eloquent way to put that. I like it.Ando Mierzwa:Oh no. That's --Jaredd Wilson:No, that's what he said. As opposed to, I like being hit.Ando Mierzwa:On St. Jeremy's tombstone, it’s going to say, "I only regret that you can't hit me anymore."Jaredd Wilson:Mine's going to say, you know, "One more time, please".Ando Mierzwa:“I spit over my tombstone.”Jeremy Lesniak:I think like, the most shared social media posts we've ever put out was, I think it's Kevin Hart doing that face with a meme and it says “That look you gave when your instructor says, "Okay, one more" because that's universal. I mean, we all do that. We've all seen that, Don. I'm sure you do that with the kids. "Okay. One more" "All right. One more."Ando Mierzwa:Yeah, sure. That's the secret to everything. "One more."Jaredd Wilson:Oh, I guess on that note?Ando Mierzwa:No more, no more.Jeremy Lesniak:No, it's time. It's time.Jeremy Lesniak:This was fun.Jaredd Wilson:Yeah, it's such --Ando Mierzwa:Thank you, guys.Jeremy Lesniak:Thanks for joining me.Ando Mierzwa:Thank you.Jeremy Lesniak:I appreciate it and we'll figure out a way to do this again and even better.Ando Mierzwa:Every night.Jeremy Lesniak:I got a time.Ando Mierzwa:Every night until someone gives up.Jeremy Lesniak:And then we're going to talk about you. Oh, that'd be an interesting reality show.Ando Mierzwa:Yeah, you start with like 20 people. And then there was one.Jeremy Lesniak:And then there was one, it's like, this was one it's like this is the last thing I'll say because it's really appropriate. There's a show, and I forget what channel it's on, but the premise is, you go off to survive on your own. I mean, really hardcore, you know, like you go in the woods with the clothes on your back and a knife and that's it. And so, to a dozen other people, but you've got a phone and you can quit at any time. And the last person out gets like a buttload of money, but you don't know when everybody else is out, so they don't tell all this, person's out, this person's out. It's not like hunger games where they fire off those things and they tell you that many people are out. So, everybody could be out in two weeks and you spend another three months out there.Ando Mierzwa:Oh my God. It's like those soldiers who, after the world war II, they were still like defending that Island.Jaredd Wilson:Yep. In the Philippines. Yeah.Ando Mierzwa:Yeah.Jaredd Wilson:Was it -- Here's a trivia for you, the last Japanese to surrender world war II, is 1975.Ando Mierzwa:Oh gosh. Did they get a buttload of money? That's a tough, that's a tough pilot for a new show. 30-year show, you're going to love it.Jaredd Wilson:That's crazy.Ando Mierzwa:That's oh, that's sad, I guess. Oh man.Jaredd Wilson:Anyway.Ando Mierzwa:All right.Ando Mierzwa:Well, thank you gentlemen. This has been a real pleasure.Jeremy Lesniak:Lots of fun.Ando Mierzwa:If I have to spend the quarantine with anybody, well, probably wouldn't be you guys, but next tier down, it's probably you guys. So, I really appreciate this.Jeremy Lesniak:We might be in the second tier. That's great --I've always wanted to probably be in the second tier of something.Ando Mierzwa:There's a whole tier supermodel that I have to consider first –Jeremy Lesniak:And then the guys with the beards.Ando Mierzwa:That's right.Jeremy Lesniak:Alright, I'll talk to you guys soon.Ando Mierzwa:Okay. Bye.Jeremy Lesniak:Bye.