Episode 568 - Mr. Daniele Bolelli
Mr. Daniele Bolelli is a martial arts practitioner and instructor from Italy. He teaches in CSULB and Santa Monica College.
If all you train for in Martial Arts is to become a good fighter, I think you missed the boat. I think there's much more interesting stuff in terms of personal development that comes from training Martial Arts. Effective technique is certainley impoirtanant but it's not the end-all be-all of it.
Mr. Danele Bolelli - Episode 568
Starting a journey early in the 90s without the internet and relying only on vague descriptions of what Martial Arts Schools offer in the yellow pages, might not be the best motivator at that time. It was not the case for Mr. Daniele Bolelli who just thought, why not? Starting out to train in Italy and then a whole world of Martial Arts Schools was revealed to him as he went to California, Mr. Bolelli had trained with a handful of disciplines and then now focusing on combat sports. In this episode, not only did Mr. Daniele Bolelli spoke about the physical aspect of his training, but he also shared his philosophical side. Listen to learn more!
Show Notes
In this episode, we mentioned OneFC fighter Sovahnnary Em and former guest, Tim Cartmell
Show Transcript
Jeremy Lesniak:
Hey there, how's it going welcome this is whistlekick martial arts radio Episode 568.
But today's guest, Mr. Daniel Bolelli. I'm Jeremy Lesniak; I'm your host for the show. I'm the founder here at whistlekick where everything we do is in support of the traditional martial arts. And if you want to know all the stuff that we're doing, because it's not a fixed list, it's changing all the time go to whistlekick.com, check out what we got there I've never been there I think you might be surprised. You can even sign up for the newsletter, where we tell you a lot of the stuff that we've got going on. One of the things that are going on in our store and it's one of the ways that we pay for some of expenses here with martial arts radio. If you find something to store that you like, use the code podcast 15, it'll get you 15% off. And it lets us know that, you know what, that person who bought some likes the podcast, the show, it gets its own website whistlekickmartialartsradio.com, and the goal of the show is to connect and educate and entertain traditional martial artists throughout the world. That's why we bring you so many different people from so many different arts, different countries, and different backgrounds. And yet, we're all martial artists. That's the hook that's what we do and why we do. That means something to you. You want to help us out, get a lot of ways you could share the show, tell friends, follow us on social media, make a purchase or support the Patreon, patreon.com/whistlekick. We give you a lot of stuff for free. And if you're willing to throw us a few bucks, we're gonna give you even more stuff, all about value. We want to give you the most value we possibly can. So today's guest, as we were finishing up once we stopped the recording I told him, I said, I feel like we just recorded two different episodes. Today with Mr. Bolelli, we talk about two very distinct aspects of his training. We've got the philosophical side and the combative side, the ring side. And it was a really interesting conversation because not only are we talking about these two aspects of him and his training, but they weren't distinct from each other, they support each other. And it came through in a way that was different than similar conversations we've had before. So I really enjoyed it and I hope that you do too well. In fact, I'm sure you will. So here we go. Mr. Bolelli. Welcome to whistlekick martial arts radio.
Daniel Bolelli:
Thank you so much for having me.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Hey, thanks for being here. You know audience I'm gonna let you know up front we had some interesting audio stuff that neither of us I think I've seen from Zoom before so hopefully we've got it worked out. Fingers cross right? This is this is the beauty of technology. It allows us to do so many things and yet when it doesn't work we've built these foundations, we've built on these foundations of technology and I don't know about you but I don't know what to do when they fall apart.
Daniel Bolelli:
That’s the truth.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Makes me happy that martial arts is something that is so low tech at least in practice that we do. So, you and I were talking, you know, we've got \ living in California, we've got an Italian name, and I took a look at your pictures, and it looks like we're talking about Chinese martial arts so we've got quite a combination of things going on here. So, instead of trying to... go ahead.
Daniel Bolelli:
I started out, I would still practice them but eventually I started moving in different directions for the last 15, 20 years I've been focused a bit more on combat sports. But there's a whole range of things.
Jeremy Lesniak:
What was the origin? When did you get started?
Daniel Bolelli:
I started when I was I think I was 17 and that was before I moved to us when I was 18 so I just got sort of dip my feet in the water while I was still in Italy and started with Chinese martial arts for probably the first, give or take about 10 years or so, and then you know I would still practice some Chinese martial arts but I overall just kind of shifted more to our combat sports the following 20 years.
Jeremy Lesniak:
And did you have any sort of interest before it's 17 is an interesting age we don't see a lot of people who start training in their late teens usually as a kid or as an adult, so what prompted that
Daniel Bolelli:
I think that I was always interested. I was bought I think a bit maybe intimidated. So, take me a while to say yes let's pull the trigger in that direction. And also, by the time I made it to like, late, Junior high school. I mean, I don't know, it was crazy because just Italian school is brutal in terms of requirements that, you know, time requirement that \forces you to do what you study and so on. So, combine that with that intimidation slash laziness, you're really created a perfect excuse not to do stuff. Eventually I kind of got tired of it so by the time I was 17 I'm like man I keep saying I want to do this I never do it. Let's just go for it.
Jeremy Lesniak:
And how did you choose the school that you started with?
Daniel Bolelli:
There was you know it seems we're talking about, let's see I was born in 74, so that would have been 91 when I started, you know we are talking pre-internet, pre-everything so you're literally just looking at the Yellow Pages see in what's close by BNR. If you find our luck if you find a book vaguely describing the style and then you just run with it.
Jeremy Lesniak:
I get it and so that year that you had while you were living in Italy. Was it the best thing you'd ever found? Was it something you just jumped into with both feet and didn't do anything else?
Daniel Bolelli:
I mean you know, to be honest, like when I look back now, it was really fairly crappy training, but I didn't know any better so it should have mattered to me. Just like the idea I enjoy practicing because again, I didn't have a frame of reference for anything better so I was like yeah sure, why not, this is great. Eventually I looked at it back now and I was like wow that was really awful training.
Jeremy Lesniak:
I think a lot of us have had at least some of that maybe not, you know, all of it from one instructor but you know we look at some aspect of what we were given or maybe even just what we brought to it I mean I've certainly had some bad training and that was my own fault. But you said at 18 you moved to the US? Was that for school?
Daniel Bolelli:
Yes, I'd finished high school moved to the United States for college. And then, you know, after that, I start I tried to pick martial arts but 06:36 started looking around the was, you know, being in Los Angeles there's pretty much every martial arts practice we do a few blocks off anywhere you are. So that makes things a lot easier. And I had a blast, you know, initially I spent probably about three four years circles, worth three years exploring different styles, trying a little bit of these, a little bit of that. Then I started getting settled for a few years and then much more focus frame on what is out there Chinese style, commonly referred to as Kung Fu Sanshou, it's a style that this guy, 07:12 brought to the United States, more likely than not is a variation of oily foods. There's a bit of disagreements on the history of the art but that's what it seems like that's the base where it started from and then moved into a bit of a different direction with it.
Jeremy Lesniak:
When we get people on the show, it is rare that a guest comes on and they are a casual participate in a martial arts, you know, you don't find very many people who love martial arts and love talking about martial arts so much that they want to come on this show and talk about martial arts publicly but here you are. So at some point, this became something that was, if not all encompassing at least deeply fundamental for who you are. When did that happen? What was that like?
Daniel Bolelli:
I think around 21, when I started with Sanshou I got a lot more serious, I found something that I enjoyed a lot more that made more sense to me. And so from that point on, is where martial arts became a integral part of my life, where, you know, rain or shine, there would be martial art training every week of the year at some point.
Jeremy Lesniak:
And so what was next? Right, 17, you give it a shot, 18, you come here, 21, you start with this this new system. And what are the next few years look like? Take us down that novel?
Daniel Bolelli:
So I got really heavy into it 08:42, as you mentioned, it would become kind of one of the priorities in my life. I was finishing college at the same time, eventually when I got decent enough at it, I started teaching and that was nice because I was doing classes at UCLA, and then I ended up teaching some martial arts at UCLA. I ended up turning my weird academic direction once I got my masters, I managed to kind of turn the academia and the martial arts, make them join together so I ended up teaching some courses at UCLA about history and philosophy of martial arts, martial arts in cinema, the physical practice of martial arts. So I was having a blast. That was, you know, being able to make it a real part of my profession. Then eventually started teaching more other stuff academically, I started focusing primarily on history and martial arts went back to being more of a private passion rather than something that I did for a living. And also that coincided with a period where I slowly phased not exactly phased out because I would still practice Chinese martial arts, but, you know, and I added others you know, I started practicing Tai Chi, 09:54, things like that. But I also started focusing more on combat sports. So afterwards it became more boxing, jiu jitsu, MMA, some wrestling, that kind of stuff.
Jeremy Lesniak:
When we have people on the show in the past and they've made any kind of transition from one or to another, especially in the case of what you're talking about. From what we might call a more traditional maybe holistic perspective on training to a more focused combative oriented training regimen. There's been some event, there's been something either you know maybe they got a fight, or a trained with someone went to a seminar or something. So was there an event that caused that shift in your training?
Daniel Bolelli:
No, not really. I was just one; I mean I love training traditional martial arts. I really enjoyed it and to some degree I enjoyed still today. But there was something that was just kind of rubbed me the wrong way about seeing some of these guys who would talk these humongous game at how great they were and you know you could see these giant egos being hiding behind the fact that they didn't really have to prove it. And I'm like, look, you talk so much crap about combat sports guys being a bunch of methods and you know there's some reality to that of course it's a stereotype but there's a way to some time it can get that way. But you're really not any better if anything, your ego is even more 11:28 because you are at least these guys have to put their ego on the line and compete and either lose or win and there's a 11:35 reality on this. A lot of you guys are hiding behind the veneer of spiritualties slash cool talk. When in reality, not all your skills suck, but also you have a bad attitude about it. So, I wasn't, you know, when I run into any of that stuff. I wasn't too fond of it. I became another thing, it became more like talking politics or talking about something where people can say whatever they want, there's no reality check where there's nasty no objective standards that people are held to actually stick to their claim. And so in that sense I sort of appreciated the simplicity of combat sports where you can talk all you want but at the end of the day you can either back it up or you can't and I found that mentally relaxing, I found it less. These back and forth arguments and things that people will get into and it's like no there is no argument you put down the line, and you either can rise up to it or you can, and either way is fine then you take your reality check and figure out what you want to do with it. I found a really like is weird to say mentally relaxing but that's really the feeling that I get from it.
Jeremy Lesniak:
I get it, it makes sense. It's a much more; it's a much simpler way to look at training. It benefits my combative skills, makes me more prepared for a confrontation on the street or something that occurs in a competition, a full contact competition. That makes sense if the technique works. I should do it if it doesn't, I shouldn't. Whereas traditional arts are broader than that of course and thus there's a much more complex set of reasons for why you might do something, you have a technique that maybe works, or maybe doesn't given the circumstances, maybe you're not even doing it for combative, etc, etc. So, yeah, I get it.
Daniel Bolelli:
And that's where I think to me I get all that stuff I'm fascinated with the martial arts not purely for combat because otherwise is really good another hobby because in terms of realistic, unless you really live in as strange neighborhood or you have a horrendous life, the odds are you're not going to need it that many times in your life for real. So, to me, of course martial art is about much more than combats. At the same time, I find that effectiveness is a good ground to start from. And then, on top of it all the other stuff you can add it in any art you want, you know, it's the aptitude that you bring with you, you can have seen, you know maybe without philosophizing that much but I've seen people who turn the most western and combat oriented like something like boxing. They could turn it into a very spiritual practice and vice versa. I've seen people who could turn the most so called spiritual art scene in just the vehicle for their egos. So to me, the other stuff boils down more to the attitude that you bring to training, to the training environment that was in there more than the art itself.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Yeah, I am with you 100% we've talked on the show quite a bit about a lot of the things you're talking about, about ego about the fact that it's about the instructor and the practitioner far more than in the style. And the beauty to me of martial arts is you have so much room in there to find yourself.
Daniel Bolelli:
Yup, absolutely.
Jeremy Lesniak:
As you started this transition were you looking to particular instructors or guiding yourself, training partners, how did you facilitate that logistically?
Daniel Bolelli:
I mean, I remember there was a phase where I was training with a guy named Tim Cartmell. He had a strong background in Chinese martial arts he had lived in Taiwan for 11 years became really, like to look at his traditional arts and he was quite phenomenal at those. But then he had also made the transition himself where he ended up becoming a black belt in Brazilian Jiu Jitsu he was training more with a combat sport oriented approach. And so seeing somebody whose skill and attitude I respected was doing exactly that to see didn't really see much of a contradiction between traditional background but also being into combat sports. Certainly facilitated that because he made it less like these two antithetical awards clashing with one another, and more something that's, you know, I could see somebody with done that I could see a path already placed there.
Jeremy Lesniak:
It's funny. You know, one of my favorite things about the martial arts world is there's so many of us and yet in some ways that are so small. And, you know, I, you said, Tim Cartmell and I said that name is way too familiar, when was he on the Show Episode 354.
Daniel Bolelli:
Oh, that's funny.
Jeremy Lesniak:
How did you connect with him?
Daniel Bolelli:
Let me see I was trained. He was a master in the same style that I've done, Kung Fu Sanshou, and then I read about him somewhere probably you know back then people would read inside 16:52 things like that. And I remember reading about what he had done, his journey and I was like oh that's really interesting. He started with the stuff and now he's teaching primarily 17:02 Tai Chi, that's kind of cool. And so I went to interview with him I was writing articles for an Italian magazine for martial arts. And so that was often an excellent excuse to go meet people I was interested in. I had a chance and see what I told him and I chat with him, I really liked him as a person I watch his class, I really enjoyed the way he thought and so I was like you know I think I can add these to my practice.
Jeremy Lesniak:
And so, as you went through this, keep calling it a transition and maybe that's a little bit too formal to think of it, what was competition something on your mind, did you step in the ring to test our skills?
Daniel Bolelli:
Yeah, I did. I did a bunch of small 17:47 MMA, a little bit of submission grappling. I ended up even a couple of pro fights in MMA down the road. So yeah I did that for quite a while he scared the living hell out of me and I found it interesting precisely for that reason because it was so scary and so it kind of forced me to deal with an environment where the stuff that normally makes me liked or appreciated by people didn't matter anything, you know my whatever intellectual thing I could bring to the table didn't mean nothing, no sophisticated argument 18:22 anything he was just about can I perform under pressure or not. And I found that interesting. I found that terrifying to some degree, but also very interesting in terms of personnel growth.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Can you tell us about that first fight? For sure you remember like vividly.
Daniel Bolelli:
Yeah, that was a perfect example of whatever reservation I had about traditional arts because even though I trained some combat sports, you know, so much of my background was more on traditional arts, and it was funny. That's what I realized; oh man so much of the stuff I've been shown it's really doesn't pan out the way they tell you. And, you know, it wasn't a terrible fight, it was fairly close. I think I lost it by decision but I was like okay that was a decent enough performance but what I realized was that so much, like for example I started to match and I remember landed like I did this technique, exactly according to plan exactly the way they show you. Landing these two super heavy strikes, and you know, according to every single 19:25 the guy should have just quit right then and there. And I don't think you can slowly 19:30. Like he landed, you know, you could see space storm from one side of another and he just shook it off and walk forward. And I was like, oh, okay, that's a whole different game, not quite what I was expecting. So that was that was a pretty good wake up call.
Jeremy Lesniak:
I have not stepped into the ring and it is unlike, incredibly unlikely I rarely say never about anything but I don't see myself doing that. But what you're talking about I've certainly seen from the seats and as I've watched on TV at times. You can see the confidence when the aggressor makes contact, when that when that cold shot that could kick that could punch whatever it is lands. And if the person sucks it up that blow is able to shrug it off. The demoralization that happens and I've seen that completely change a fight just one blow, not doing as much damage as the attacker thought it would.
Daniel Bolelli:
Yeah. Psychological its tricky coz you're like, you know, you're dishing everything you can. All this stuff that in theory it should make a difference and it's not. And you're like, wait, I'm in the wrong fight here what's happening; especially you know if you don't have enough. If you have experience you can know how to work around it but if you don't have enough experience it definitely leaves you in a state of shock or even I caught the guy in an arm bar, but 20:58 extend that arm bar, you know, in training everybody would tap immediately on an arm bar like that. And you know because he was he had maybe five millimeters left before his elbow would go, he didn't tap and he found a way to get out and again I was like, I am so unprepared for this. I just could be that no have to deal with that degree of adrenaline and intensity, it is just not the kind of stuff the regular training and prepare before.
Jeremy Lesniak:
And here we have a great example, one of the things I love about martial arts is the opportunity to progress that iterative progress you go in to try it, it doesn't work and you know it doesn't really matter what the setting is, we have that opportunity. So, I'm really curious. You said you competed again. So what happened after this first fight? What did you change most as you went back to the drawing board so to speak? You know what changed in your training or, etc.
Daniel Bolelli:
Yeah, I was mad again not because effectiveness in combat was the one and only value I clearly that's not why I practice martial arts, but it also felt that effectiveness in combat should be the base. That's like we can add all the other stuff and that's the important stuff to me in life. Combat effectiveness is overall a minor one, but I think is a necessary prerequisite is like if I don't have that, then I feel like I'm a loser like all the other stuff is just me talking about since that. So I feel that was the needed prerequisite before I can before the other stuff feels more real, feels like it has more meaning. So I went back and realized oh man, so much of my training, really doesn't work in terms of combat effectiveness and so I tried to switch things around I started focusing primarily on grappling. Actually that's not even true because I was doing a lot of boxing too so I picked up boxing fairly seriously for about four or five years. And then I just focused a lot on grappling. And I think you know the grappling game in particular feels, it's easier to train because you're not taking brain damage or restarting every time 23:08 striking outs are tricky because if you train to light you don't know whether it's hard to navigate on how well you're doing because sometimes there's always that you know you and the sparring session, you are like how did that blow would have stopped 23:24 really put the heat on or would have been so there's a lot more what ifs, whereas we're grappling you can go pretty full on and you have a very clear answer of where you stand in the grappling like that. So I did both, but I primarily focused on grappling. And that translated to MMA immediately, like my success rate in MMA went way up really fast. Thanks to wrestling and Jiu Jitsu, wrestling in particular was interesting because I never even considered it. It didn't appeal to me aesthetically didn't appeal to be on pretty much any level when I'd seen it like only deca games wrestling type of stuff. But then when I started practicing I felt like it was currently the most useful thing I've ever done in terms of combat effectiveness.
Jeremy Lesniak:
I think for a lot of people who start with traditional arts and end up in some sort of, you know, combination MMA, whatever you want to label it. I think they're experiencing a lot of what I think you experienced. Here's what I'm taking away. Wrestling didn't appeal to you as a standalone, but as part of a larger equation. It makes sense. And you saw the appeal and I see that too and I think we've all, the majority of our listeners are, you know, diehard traditional martial artists and just, statistically, they've probably trained in one or two hours. Right, that's just I'm just playing the numbers. And I'm sure this was you as you were starting in Chinese arts, you get to a point in your, in your sparring, but whatever that structure is where maybe you're working with a friend and maybe you push that boundary a little bit because you know you've gone from striking sparring point style whatever, and maybe you're tied up and you've got, you're holding each other, and you kind of smile and say, oh, you know, we had mats you know we could take this down ground right. And I think it's, we all recognize that there's some value there. And I think that's why so many people end up really enjoying this more fluid ability to transcend ranges of common punch wrestle, grapple ground, and just move it around because it gives you so many more options.
Daniel Bolelli:
Absolutely. And you have an instant. Again, you don't have to wonder you are sure many guys 25:56 training way to talk this talk like, oh, by then I would have done these if you shot that babble but of course I can do it because I would have to poke your eye in doing this or I would have done this and that and I'm like, how do you know, have you ever done it on somebody for real who's not a drunk on the street? Have you ever have you ever really tested it when somebody shooting 100 miles an hour for your legs? How do you know if you can stop it or not? And then eventually I realized, A they don't, B they can, you know, it was you know out of politeness that you stop texting it but I've had enough of those stats with people were so self-assured of their deadly skills. And you know what, quick double leg would put them on their back with them maybe no idea how they got there and no clue how to stop it. And I was like, that needs felt like, and again, and it sounds like I'm coming down hard on traditional arts, I really appreciate traditional arts. I just finished yesterday I was teaching to my daughter some Tai Chi form and we are working 27:00 techniques, so I still practice them, I still teach them, I very much enjoy them. I just found that a lot of people tend to get lost in lack of immediate realistic feedback, and let that become, it becomes almost like a cult, where you just tell stories to yourself and there's never a way to get a reality check. And again, not everybody is these there are plenty of people in traditional large were phenomenal human beings who have a great attitude who don't have a big ego and who are even good fighters. But I'm just talking about in terms of law of numbers, the numbers of people who don't fit this more ideal pattern tend to fit more what I was describing is unfortunately fairly high.
Jeremy Lesniak:
For sure and I love the word that you used, feedback. Because again, that goes back to my model of iterative iron sharpens iron, you know, personal refinement of our technique and what we use and I think that's a great way to look at it if we think of it from the perspective of feedback. If you're never able to take what you train to such a level that you can find the gaps in it. And how do you really get better. And, yeah, maybe you can poke somebody in the eye, but I'm gonna be honest, mechanically me poking someone in the eye. I know that's a pretty straightforward thing I know how to make my finger stick out, and I know where an eyeball is. But I don't know that I want to trust my life to something I've never tried before.
Daniel Bolelli:
Yeah, and that's where I think is important to have both. Because I think a more sense of the fans approach, more some or the traditional in the type of training is great. In terms of one side of combat, you know, it's giving you all the right targets, all the right techniques that you would want to use if your life is on the line. On the other hand combat sport gives you all the wrong targets, because you're, you know you're not going for the most sensitive parts of the body because otherwise there would be no combat sports that would kill each other in no time but you do available the right attributes in terms of speed, the judging distance, dealing with pressure,dealing with adrenaline and dealing with the resisting opponent. To me is like, both are important, because you know I've seen. Okay I'm being very hard on the traditional side but if you look at the combat sports side. I've seen plenty of people in combat sports having some delusions that their skill perfectly translate to the street in ways that they kind of do, but not as perfectly as they think, like I've seen people who were, you know, getting guy got him for a fight with other guy he shoots a double take him down, get on top start mounting game, he's ready to like if this was the cage he would be perfect, the guy would be dominating and he's about to get the ground and pound win. And then 120 pound the girlfriend of the guy on the bottom walks up and she kicked him in the face and knock him out. And I'm like, you are fighting a one on one fight in a cage, you're not, you're in the street, there's a whole that our sea level that you're not considering. And that's where the self-defense training come in, giving you some of those tools. So I'm not a guy who's arguing, you know, combat sports are either traditional or bad or vice versa. I think there 30:33 both, as long as you understand context, then you find a good way to combine them.
Jeremy Lesniak:
And this is exactly where I started saying a diverse martial artists is a better martial artist. One of the things you learn, and that doesn't necessarily though he often means learning different style doesn’t have to. It can just mean learning to apply what you've learned in different contexts, as you said, context is important.
Daniel Bolelli:
Most definitely.
Jeremy Lesniak:
So you mentioned your daughter teaching her some Tai Chi, I get the sense that you're no longer competing, so tell us about your training now and how this progression has kind of. We weren't how it shaped what you were doing. I suspect that quite a bit of that education, led to what you're doing now, and how you might present some things to others.
Daniel Bolelli:
You know the bulk of my practice is Judo and Brazilian Jiu Jitsu these days with my daughter I teacher her Sanshou. And she's still alive and I think he's like it's perfect to have a strong, especially for a girl who have a strong self-defense base. She likes Tai Chi so I teach her that as well. And then, you know, I'm sure no introduction or to some combat sports concept but I think she has time. Now she can jump into it later issue still like 2, 3, 4 years. And so that's kind of where I'm at practice wise, now my girlfriend she fights professionally in MMA. So, of course I'm a little bit involved in that, you know, trying things, and giving her some realistic sparring and doing whatever she needs to help her out. So that's kind of where I'm at these days.
Jeremy Lesniak:
I'd like to talk about that a little bit then with your girlfriend because that's and not because it's your girlfriend but because it's someone that you're working with. And I find that really interesting, you know, now we've got this interesting dynamic here where you start as a diehard I guess we can say traditional martial artists. You start to have some of your note your understanding blown up a little bit, you go back, you try, refine, test it again, and step out with some level of competency and understanding of how things apply. How did she get involved in MMA? And how have you guided her based on what you learn yourself?
Daniel Bolelli:
Sure. So she started out. We are talking about martial arts and she really enjoyed it but she grew up in a really poor environment where there was definitely no money for lessons. So, by that point. She wanted to, what is that oh, I remember that. Yeah, there was my former boxing teacher was always trying to help me out because I was going to you know it's been a really hard time in my life, my wife died of a brain tumor, my daughter was only a year and a half year old at the time. So you know, people I knew were really trying to be nice to me. And you know what I can do to help you when, in some cases, there was really not I mean I appreciated the thoughts, but there really wasn't much that they could do. So, my boxing teacher asked me multiple times. Hey, what can I do, well what can I do well at one point I said hey, my girlfriend wasn't my girlfriend yet at the time and I just told my boxing teacher I have this friend of mine who's really interested in boxing but she has no money would you mind, you know, can she train with you for a beat. Can you like give her a pass and let them train and he was like yeah absolutely anything and I was like oh that's so sweet. Thank you so much. And she started training, and she loved it and she had a blast and she got really good really fast, she had a clear are very athletic by nature, she had a good instinct by nature. And so she did that quite a bit, and eventually because she enjoyed it. She was like, You know what, I have another place where I was training I was doing that, Brazilian Jiu Jitsu club at the Cal State Long Beach University and she's like yeah I like to try that too. I'm like, great; you can go there for free as well. Let's do it. And she also she started doing Jiu Jitsu and you know she wasn't doing it with any goal inside she was just having fun but she was, you know, some people have a talent for it, and she started getting pretty good pretty fast. And so eventually after a while that she was training, you know, we knew a bunch of people went 14 local shows kind of entry level MMA and so she's like, you know, I'd love to try it once in my life, like, sure, let's do that. And she did, and then the results were tricky, I don't know, like spectacular slash scary. And, and she had any, like I've never seen any like that in terms of aptitude for this kind of stuff. And so after that she's like ha, maybe I can do it a little more seriously. I'm like, by all means, if that's what you want to do. You know she picked up a second local match and then very quickly she ended up. She signed with a major promotion she's 35:55 and all that. So it's been an interesting journey.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Are you still coaching her?
Daniel Bolelli:
I mean, I am and I'm not. But primarily I'm not because it's really bad for the relationship.
Jeremy Lesniak:
I was wondering if I'm not gonna speak to that, that's always my thing that I wonder, I have a number of friends who, you know, they're married and they train together or teach together or one's a fighter, and that dynamic just looks so challenging.
Daniel Bolelli:
Yeah, because it's weird. Like you know and we are always like you fight too well and 36:31, she's gonna get a little edgy dawn to then she feel like walking through. So it's such a weird lot so I match up here she has a great coach who's a great guy who helps her a bunch and we're like, yes, let's do that and then once in a while we could have a conversation about hey, what about this technique, what do you think and, you know, keeping it more much more hands off, rather than having to be the one on whom she has to defend in that sense, I don't think. And it's funny because she's really easy to get along with in every possible way. But when it comes to training and see she gets a little edgy. When, which means she does it with other people but with me I can see she gets. I think it's an ego thing like she wants to look good in my eyes all the time. And so if she does anything that doesn't make her look good, then she gets annoyed with herself or get annoyed with me or something like that but if we keep that part of your life a little bit 37:31.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Do you do sit ringside when she fights?
Daniel Bolelli:
I've done it for the first couple of matches, when they were here in US. I did not when she fought in Asia. And, yeah, it's not fun. It's absolutely nerve racking. I don't do well it.
Jeremy Lesniak:
So, I think I have the same challenge.
Daniel Bolelli:
But I mean, it was creepy because I remember our first fight. That was the one that really freaked me out because you know you're there in this really weird situation where if you haven't been there before you are in the locker room and you know the guy who's sitting next to you was going out to fight, he's coming back and he's all bloodied up and. And the guys are like okay your next start getting ready, and you know, it’s so scary and intimidating, and she was like, you know, it's like if she was having breakfast at the table would have had the same attitude, completely relaxed. Zero nerves, zero pressure and I was looking at her like an alien, like how do you not feel this pressure, how do you not feel, I'm out of breath and I don't have to fight because I'm so tense, how in the world are you not 38:49. And she was like, I feel good. I'm okay. Some people are really wired differently I guess and then she went and I was always a little worried because I mean I've seen her and she moved really well and when she hit the bag. It's really hard but inspiring, she was always so delicate and gentle with our sparring partners, even when they got a little heat she wouldn't. And I'm like, hey, I know you have the power, can you turn it on when during a fight because it's gonna be kind of important that she's like yeah, don't worry, I can, I'm like long as you're 39:23 so let's see. And like they're match less than 16 seconds, knock their opponents out cold with two punches. And that was like, because you know, especially female MMA you do not see that kind of knockout of our boundaries in particular. So I was like, ok shut up and 39:48 shotgun, as you know what you're doing. So, I'll be quiet.
Jeremy Lesniak:
You mentioned that she had some aptitude for and what I'm thinking of, you know, I heard many years ago that if you're ever in the midst of a group fight, you know, a bar a bunch of people are in the middle of a brawl. The person who remains calm in that environment is the one that is the most dangerous, the one you should avoid at all costs. I'm thinking that there's, there's a connection there that, you know, you're talking about her. Eating and just, you know, being completely relaxed and training and just, you know, just kind of, kind of doing it and stepping into the ring and absolutely dominating.
Daniel Bolelli:
In mental state is 90% of the game is like the first three matches she had she was so relaxed like even like second magic who can act 40:43 understand that. And then our fourth fight which was a little harder but not really that much harder from a technical standpoint. Something wrong with our psychology that week. She was edgy, she didn't know why she had infection dramatically underperformed the company and I was like wow it's so creepy that you can basically tell I was gonna go before you even step in just based on your mental state. I was like, that's, that one.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Did she lose that one?
Daniel Bolelli:
And again, she lost the fight that, you know, she basically dominated for two minutes, they they're horrendously stupid mistake gave up her neck and got choked out and I was like, Wow, that is crazy, because that's a match that you have in the bag. And just the mind. Wasn't your friend that day, and usually is your friend and who knows, and she needs to figure out why you know what are the 41:46 emotionally what is that causes her to be so calm and relaxed when they, and then feel the human feeling that people feel when they go into a match and instead and not do well with it so that you know that's that psychological part of the game and it's the stuff that she needs to figure out.
Jeremy Lesniak:
She sounds like an exciting person to watch, would you mind sharing her name we've got quite a few MMA fans in the audience.
Daniel Bolelli:
She's Savvone Marian and sometimes her name is spelled Savannah like more Americanized like, but otherwise our 42:19 in Cambodia in Savonnerie. If you find our last name, em, she fights for one championship share the couple of fights with them. So she's had a couple of matches here like more entry level, local MMA scene in California where she fought twice or once.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Let's go back to talking about you. You seem like you have an easy time talking about her. We're gonna, we're gonna steer it back. Yeah, so we we've talked about all the different aspects that make up a fighter or a martial artist or however you want to look at it. So here's a heavy question. If you had to rank, all the assets that you have as a fighter. What would be your weakest would be the worst part of your fight game, as people call it.
Daniel Bolelli:
My mind. I think I get way too nervous. Like, I have to be technically way superior to my opponent to do well. Because, you know, something like somebody like her she tends to over perform or she performs even better than she's training. I tend to underperform. I get to wedge, like, by nature I don't like conflict at all. I read it bugs me rubs me the wrong way so it's harder for me than for the average person to get into a match.
Jeremy Lesniak:
And how about the other end of that spectrum with what's the best part?
Daniel Bolelli:
I'm sneaky in the sense that I know because I've probably experienced so many different parts, I can always put in front of my opponent a look that they haven't seen. I can move in ways that are. I can box but I move different try box, I can do some more traditional stuff but I will different from them, I can always kind of give a hard time to people who are much better than me just from the weirdness of the way I do things, because it's not classic one thing its not unorthodox approach. So I've seen it. I mean, even I remember my boxing coach style. It's so weird he's like every time you throw a great punch, you never hit me because I've seen that punch come 10 million times from other people who are top notch professional. But every time you throw a really weird ugly punch you always hit because I don't see it coming, it comes from a really unusual angle. And I think that's one of the things that I do well is combining different styles and shifting from one year to another well enough to keep somebody on their toes.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Is that something that you developed intentionally or do you think that it happened just by circumstance?
Daniel Bolelli:
I think it happened by circumstances because it was raining in so many different things. But I think then I realized oh this works well I'm gonna make weirdness my thing, because, you know, realistically, I was never the guy who could train, seven days a week kind of thing. I have so much other stuff going on in my life that I was always training, you know, your three times a week type of stuff so realistically I'm not going to be able to compete with somebody was putting in way more time. Unless I do things that these folks haven't seen or unless like, for example, in terms of grappling long before, like today, leg locks are a huge thing. Now if you grab hold leg locks are going to be a huge part of the game. When I started they were. And so I realized ha, that's an interesting aspect of the game that most people don't touch, and then I got really good at that. So that I can take somebody with way better than me now there are aspects of grappling, but I'm gonna take it to their weak spot where I excel, and I may be able to beating somebody who's way better than me. But ultimately on on some of the stuff we're talking a lot about effectiveness and again I think is important, as a base. But ultimately, if we're going to be real effectiveness is interesting I enjoy talking about it, but it's not it because it's like if all you train for in martial arts is to become a good fighter I think you'll miss it both. I think there's so much more interesting stuff in terms of personal development that comes from training martial arts, where effective technique is certainly important, but it's not the be all and all of it, to me really boils that like I know so many people who are phenomenal fighters and terrible human beings. And I mean through studying does, gaining confidence through martial arts How can that translates to you becoming a kinder, more decent human beings in your everyday interactions with people outside of the dojo.
Jeremy Lesniak:
You bring up something that is incredibly important to me something that I have spoken about quite a bit and instead of throwing my own thoughts at you, especially since the audience has heard them, time and again, I want to go back to that that idea that there are quite a few great fighters out there who are terrible people. How does that happen?
Daniel Bolelli:
Well, I think he's, you know, fighting is a skill, doesn't mean you're learning to become a better person, you're just, you know what, I think, unfortunately, I've stayed in a bunch of times about you know martial arts to become a better human being, blah, blah. The reality is that they don't make it but they give you confidence, and they give you a sense, they make you more effective, more discipline, and more confident. Now, these are great attributes in the hands of a decent human being. They're terrible, in the sense of an awful human being, you know somebody was not a nice person to begin with who happened to be more disciplined, effective and confident. I don't want them more disciplined and effective are those people the fact that you became all those things if it's at the service of that bad attitude toward life. It's not an advantage for everybody else. So I feel that they are, if you are a good human being training martial arts, we'll develop attributes that will make your rudeness shine even more. But if you're not a good human being, not necessarily the thing that don't show life around. Sometimes it does maybe you are a nice person but you kind of had a rough upbringing. You just needed some discipline and confidence and your true nature would shine and some time it does at some time you were an awful person who now is just a very disciplined awful person.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Great points. Absolutely. What about the future? What's coming for you and training and many of the things that you've got in your sights as it relates to martial arts?
Daniel Bolelli:
I don't think he's gonna change that much I think I really enjoy training grappling. I really enjoy keep doing Judo and Jiu Jitsu, I'm training something to a jar which is fairly similar to Julian a lot of ways, but it also has its tweaks on it. I can see myself doing that forever as much as my body holds. I would love to probably put a little more time into Tai Chi as a form of movie made less as a martial arts and more for the meditative aspect of it. And, you know, teach my daughter whatever I can teach her and, you know, maybe I was seeing him since it now. Please to play in my garage with mats and everything and maybe put out videos for people, not for any commercial goal just something out there. People can pick up something useful from it. And I think that being, you know it's like I'm more whatever my girlfriend is doing, I'll support it, whatever my daughter wants to learn if I can help her. I'll do. And then I'll just keep enjoying my practice.
Jeremy Lesniak:
So, sounds like a coping and yet satisfied perspective. All right. If people want to get ahold of you if they want to find you online social media, email websites anything like that you can share with people.
Daniel Bolelli:
Sure. I mean, always. I think the gods of Google tend to be good to answer so if you managed to spell my name correctly, which is Daniel, with an E at the end so Daniel and then last name Bolelli, all sorts of stuff start showing up you know I wrote four books a couple of them about martial arts.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Let's talk about that.
Daniel Bolelli:
Oh yeah, so the first book I ever did was called on the warrior spot and it was all kind of about philosophy and martial arts, became actually fairly big and that's more about the beside the technical aspect is like why do we train. What's the big deal about it? What can we get out of martial arts that translate to life? And so that's, that was my first book, then I did a couple of other books that had nothing to do with martial arts and my last one was called not afraid and it's a little more personal, a little more about starts with martial arts but then it also translates to hard parts of my life and in a sense the way martial arts training. We deal with them. And so that's that one is a little bit more of a biographical aspect, whereas the first one on the Warriors part is more philosophical in nature.
Jeremy Lesniak:
All right, cool. So that brings us to, to the end. And in the end, We go out to the outro however you want to so what words parting bits of wisdom, etc. You know, how you want to close out our conversation today.
Daniel Bolelli:
I really think that short of where I was going with a discipline, effectiveness, confidence all that stuff, it needs to serve something greater. Now of course, pretty much everyone in the martial arts thinks that they already example of the good guy. Sadly, that's not reality. I think a good way to tell, and a good goal to keep is to see how you relate to other human beings in day to day life. And precisely because you have gained something from martial arts, precisely because you have been empowered to some degree you have gained a degree of strength, a degree of confidence, then your yardstick to see how well things are working is how you treat other people. If you manage to be, I'm always impress than moved by kindness, particularly during hard times, because you know everybody can be nice when everything is going good for them but when you're evidence, but things are really rough. If you can find a way to be kind to the people in your life, to the people you meet on the streets, to take whatever life is dishing at you and set it aside and not let that hurt be something that you pass on to somebody else to be just something that you deal with because you have the strength to deal with, but then in the relation, you have to other people you really try to be the kindness human you can be. I find the kindness is rarely a bad answer. So I tend to value it above 53:52.
Jeremy Lesniak:
So like I said in the intro, we've got some really different stuff that we talked about today. We talked about these two aspects of Mr. Bolelli. And I think some people might think that they are in conflict and yet to hear them talk about it, I can't imagine anymore unified cohesive approach to training. Doesn't mean it’s what I want to do, doesn't mean that it's what you should do. But it’s so clear it's what he was destined to do. And I loved that. So thank you sir, thanks for coming on the show. Appreciate your time. If you want to find more, go to whistlekickmartialartsradio.com we've got some photos and links and videos and transcripts and newsletters sign up and, well, you name it. Well I mean not everything. There's a lot over there so check it out, check out whistlekick.com and thank you for supporting us in the work we do. You can use the code podcast 15 to get 15% off at whistlekick.com, you can support the Patreon and share stuff and review stuff, buy stuff, you know, it's all good. We really appreciate the help that those of you give us and those of you who don't, that's okay too. You see somebody out there wearing some old whistlekick say hello. Talk whistlekick, talk martial arts. Make friends help grow this community. And if you want to email me its jeremy@whistlekick.com. Until next time train hard smile, and have a great day.