Episode 573 - Differences Between Coaches, Instructors, and Teachers
In this episode, Jeremy and Andrew talk about the fundamental differences between Coaches, Instructors, and Teachers.
Differences Between Coaches, Instructors, and Teachers - Episode 573
We are all familiar with the titles of our teachers, coaches, and instructors but are there any substantial differences between those? In this episode, Jeremy and Andrew talk about the fundamental differences between Coaches, Instructors, and Teachers. Listen to learn more!
Show Transcript
You can read the transcript below.
James Lesniak:
What's going on, everybody? Welcome! This is whistlekick Martial Arts Radio episode 573. Today, Andrew and I are talking about the differences between martial arts coaches, martial arts instructors, and martial arts teachers?
Andrew Adams:
Yeah.
James Lesniak:
If you wanna know what that all means and as you can see, I got a little bit tongue-tied as I was putting those words together, stick around! Well, if you're new to this show, you might be interested to know that there is a video version of this. We're trying to get more video going. So, check it out on YouTube. You can see the shininess. You can compare the shininess between my skull and Andrew's skull. It's quite the race that we're running here, my friend.
Andrew Adams:
Maybe that's the next poll we put on whistlekick.
James Lesniak:
That's a good point to bring up. We have a Facebook group - whistlekick Martial Arts Radio - Behind the Scenes. Of course, we've got whistlekick.com. If you go to whistlekick.com, you can find all the stuff that we've got from the Facebook group to the website for martial arts radio to the store. If you make a purchase in the store, you help support us and you can use the code podcast15. Save yourself 15% off a shirt or a training program or one of the many things that we've got over there. The goal of the show, it's really to connect, educate, entertain the traditional martial artists of the world. That's why we do what we do. We are all, at whistlekick, passionate martial artists and we want to support you in your passion for training. If making a purchase isn't the way that you want to help us and, hopefully, you are willing to help us, we've got a bunch of things you can do. You can follow the social media. You can tell people about what we're doing, or we've got a Patreon - patreon.com/whistlekick. Patreon's a great place for us because it means we can give back to those who give the most to us. If you make a monthly contribution for as little as 2 bucks, you're gonna get some original, not be seen anywhere else whistlekick content. Everything from behind the scenes on the podcast to exclusive video, audio, books, training programs. We put a bunch of stuff up there for free, depending on your tier, just to say thank you. So, let's get into this. Now this came in from a question from a listener, right?
Andrew Adams:
I don't remember. I think it was first brought up on your First Cup, one of your First Cup early morning YouTube shows.
James Lesniak:
That makes sense. That rings a bell. Yeah, and I'm sure I talked about it. I don't remember because it was early, and this is one of the interesting things about First Cup. It's that we start the show [02:35:02] and get into my first cup of coffee. Hence, the incredible creative name. It's the most creative I've ever named anything and as you can tell, it's not a very creative name. We keep things simple over here. But it's an interesting question, right? The difference between a Sensei and a Shifu. You know, there's some inherent difference in there. We know, pretty much automatically a Sensei is going to be a martial arts instructor of some kind of Japanese Okinawan martial arts style, right. A Shifu is gonna be some manner of Chinese-based martial art. We can draw some inherent differences but what about the English terms of coach, and instructor, and teacher?
Andrew Adams:
Teacher, yeah.
James Lesniak:
Are there really differences in there? And I think that there are. You obviously picked up on this question when it came up on First Cup. So, what were your thoughts? What was your initial reaction?
Andrew Adams:
Well, I needed time to mull over and really think about it because they are often used interchangeably and there's nothing wrong with that. If you feel that a teacher and an instructor is the same thing, that's okay. There's nothing wrong with that. But it led me to think about it quite a bit in the next couple of days and that's why I said, you know what, why don't we discuss this on an episode? 'Cause I think in your First Cup discussion, it was only 3 or 4 minutes. You gave a quick kind of, you know, this is my initial thought of what a coach is blah, blah, blah. And I thought maybe we could go a little more in depth and bring it to a full whistlekick episode and talk about what our opinions are on the differences between the three if there are differences in our opinion.
James Lesniak:
Right, absolutely. I suspect there will be usually you and different just a little bit which the fun part of having these conversations. And of course, we're talking about nuance and is there anything that martial artists like debating and really beating into the ground more than nuance? You know, you don't hold your first like this. You have to turn it 7 and a half degrees this way and that foot, your big toe, needs to point there. Unless, of course, you're one of those Neanderthals derivatives where your little toe is longer than your order toe in which case, you gotta do this and phew! Yeah, we like nuance and that's okay. Makes it fun. So, right off the bat, you know, we've got these three terms - coach, and instructor, and teacher. And in my mind, coach is slightly different than instructor and teacher which are closer together.
Andrew Adams:
I would agree with that.
James Lesniak:
And for me, when I think about these terms, I think the easiest way for me to wrap my mind around them was to use them in non-martial arts context. When I think about calling someone a coach versus calling someone an instructor versus calling them teacher... where does that happen? A coach is pretty obvious. It happens in an athletic context.
Andrew Adams:
Exactly.
James Lesniak:
High school sports, even you know, tee-ball or professional sports, we use that term coach from the bottom to the top. And it's a pretty interesting term in that way because there aren't a whole lot of other things where the best in the world and the worst in the world are given the same honorific title.
Andrew Adams:
Yeah, it's right. True. I think it absolutely has a specific goal-oriented thing you're working towards. I don't think it necessarily has to be sports per se. I think 99% of the time that is the case, but I think if you're a coach, you can coach someone and something that's not sports...
James Lesniak:
Sure.
Andrew Adams:
...but it's usually you're coaching them for a specific goal or some sort of competition. Something of that nature.
James Lesniak:
Right. To me, the goal of a coach is to get the best result from the participants so we could be talking about you know, if we wanna a little bit nerdy, self-deprecating you know. I had a debate coach in high school.
Andrew Adams:
Sure.
James Lesniak:
I have a math team coach and, you know, there were trivia challenges through school. We had teachers who took the role of coach in certain contexts for some kind of competition. I think that's the first thing to split because, yeah, I think most of us when we think coach, we tend to think athletics, but it doesn't necessarily need to be an athletic pursuit but just some manner of competitive drive.
Andrew Adams:
Some competitive pursuit and it doesn't even have to be like, let's say, the example of your debate coach. He or she would likely coach you on debate techniques but also perhaps some psyche of how to react to things. So, it wasn't necessarily a single-edged this is the thing I'm coaching on. It was everything that you need to know about this particular performance, in this case a debate right, this is all the stuff you're gonna need to know. Some of it will be physical, maybe. Maybe not in a debate physical but some of it's gonna be mental, you know. But I think the biggest thing is that it's getting you towards a specific goal.
James Lesniak:
Right, and I like how you talk about multifaceted. When we think about a coach right off the bat again, we're thinking about often athletics, but some may [08:07:08] competitive aspect. This is where, I think, coach can differ from an instructor or a teacher. Think about every popular movie, at least that I've seen, that has a strong coach. A coach as, let's say, a primary character. It's usually a sports movie, you know, something...
Andrew Adams:
Yup.
James Lesniak:
You know, something like Any Given Sunday is a great example because you've got, as far as I'm concerned, one of the best actors of all time, Al Pacino, in that role. What happens in at least every one of those movies with football? There's some kind of thing going on in the locker at half time, right? There's always a speech.
Andrew Adams:
Yup.
James Lesniak:
There's always some really [08:54:11] powerful speech as the coach tries to get into the psyche of the players and say, here is how you move forward from this obstacle. When I think of an instructor or a teacher, that doesn't come to mind for me as strongly. Now, I've certainly had instructors and teachers in various ways who were concerned and invested in my personal growth beyond the subject matter but not all of them. Not in the way that a coach is typically responsible for it. What's the goal of an instructor or teacher? To my mind, it's presenting information. It's to make sure that the individuals they are responsible for have knowledge.
Andrew Adams:
Yeah.
James Lesniak:
The responsibility of the coach is performance.
Andrew Adams:
Correct. Exactly. I think that's, to me, the distinction.
James Lesniak:
So, I think that's probably a good point to place a pin in coach and move on. What'd do you say?
Andrew Adams:
Yeah, absolutely.
James Lesniak:
All right. So, now we look at instructor versus teacher. Phew. I think a lot of people...I would say most people use the two interchangeably. But the question is, are they? Now, this is where, if I was writing a paper, one of my instincts would be to go to the dictionary and compare the definitions, which is about as cliche as you get and there's nothing wrong with that. It's a good place where you're having a debate on language to the place to start, but we're not gonna do that. I'm looking at examples over my lifetime. I'm thinking of people that are instructors and people that are teachers. To me, they are responsible for the same thing. Generally, 90% of the time. But, to me, an instructor is someone who is more competent.
Andrew Adams:
Interesting. I don't make that distinction myself, but I would be interested to hear why you think that.
James Lesniak:
If I have, let's say, go to a conference and let's say it's any subject. Let's make it not martial arts for that. Let's say it's a conference on marketing, something I spent a lot of time doing. It's a marketing conference and I have a choice of two sessions that are roughly on the same subject. They're on using social media to achieve a result. One is instructed by a certain person who I don't know and the other is taught by certain person who I don't know. Right there, I think my instinct is "oh, instructed." That has a gravitas to me of being more competent, more polished. I could imagine an instructor presenting information to teachers. I don't necessarily see the reverse. I don't necessarily see a teacher presenting information to a group of instructors.
Andrew Adams:
Interesting. So, what you're saying is, if I can paraphrase or elaborate more, an instructor is someone who is specialized in a specific thing and a teacher teaches more general. Is that kinda how you see it?
James Lesniak:
No, no it's...
Andrew Adams:
Okay.
James Lesniak:
If we think about it in the context of martial arts, I can put anybody, let's say, I'm teaching a class and I'm the only person of Black belt rank and there are 40 people in the room. But I've got somebody who's been there for a couple of years and maybe they are Green belt, and they know some stuff, right. I can have them go teach the first form. I'd like you to take those White belts and go to the back of the room and go over [12:40:12]. That's an example that I bet many of you listening or watching have observed or maybe even participated in. But I'm not going to call that person, that Green belt, an instructor. They're a teacher in that context.
Andrew Adams:
Would you call them a teacher in that context, really?
James Lesniak:
I would. They're going to go teach.
Andrew Adams:
Interesting, okay.
James Lesniak:
In order to teach, one must be a teacher. But I would never say that they are instructing that group. I would say they're teaching that group. Now, when I think of a martial arts context, I might imagine that someone who is a 3rd, 4th, 5th, or whatever degree Black belt, may stand in front of the room and instruct the class. Now, this could just be based on the context of how these words have been used around me, right. And if, Andrew, your experience is completely different could just be the way people around you have used those terms.
Andrew Adams:
Yeah, the way we were brought up. Yeah, sure.
James Lesniak:
Because, again, I think that they are so close that we're really...maybe it's a little broader than splitting hairs but it's not a dramatic difference. I'm never gonna be offended if someone calls me one versus the other and I wouldn't imagine very many people would.
Andrew Adams:
Yeah, I would agree. I think it is very nuanced, the difference and I encourage people to think about it for yourself. Certainly, let us know what your thought are.
James Lesniak:
Absolutely.
Andrew Adams:
The difference between an instructor and a teacher. I think, for me, the instructor is someone who is specialized in something. So, for example, someone who's instructing you know, if we use martial arts terms, like we're specialized in teaching this one thing. But a teacher might teach, you know, something not as broad a scale like not as specialized. In a classroom setting, an instructor will maybe specialize in teaching this type of Physics, but a teacher would be like a Science teacher. They're teaching lots of different disciplines within. So, the Science teacher might be teaching some Physics, might be teaching some Biology and some Chemistry. But when you get to college and you are taking specific type of Chemistry, that's an instructor. That's how I thought of it in this last week.
James Lesniak:
Yeah, I can see that. Now, would you use the term instructor and professor interchangeably then?
Andrew Adams:
I probably would, yeah.
James Lesniak:
I see where you're going there. So, it's to further add complexity to this nerdy word debate that we're in the middle of, which I enjoy in case you can't tell. If you're not watching, you're not seeing the smile on my face. There is less of a gap, less of a delta, let's be even nerdier, between instructor and professor in your mind than there is between instructor and teacher.
Andrew Adams:
Yes.
James Lesniak:
Okay. Interesting. And of course, professor is a term that people use in the martial arts. I'm most familiar with that in the context of Filipino martial arts but I have seen it used elsewhere. It tends to be a higher rank honorific. Generally, 7th and up is where I've seen it. I don't have a huge amount of context for that so I'm not drawing any kind of line in the sand there.
Andrew Adams:
Yeah.
James Lesniak:
But I think this is where now again, if you've been a long-time listener of this show, you know that the majority of my experiences is in Japanese Okinawan martial arts so I'm most familiar with Japanese terminology. This is where, for me, the progression of terms Senpai, Sensei, Renshi, Shihan, Kyoshi, Hanshi comes in.
Andrew Adams:
Yeah.
James Lesniak:
Right, and not every system in school uses all of those titles but that is, as I was taught then, a generalized progression up and they have a rough correlation to rank but I don't know if that's necessarily relevant. So, when you say teacher, I think Sensei. When you say instructor, I'm thinking Shihan or Kyoshi, you know, which are of course more time in theory, more skill, more knowledge. The idea that you brought up with relating it back to academics and the more specialization, that's really interesting to me. Because, I think, inevitably, that happens in any pursuit. The instructor in the context of martial arts, may have a thing that they are really great instructing even though they are good or even great at passing information on a variety of subjects. When we think of people who are really competent, longstanding martial artists with great degree of knowledge, there tends to be something that people would say, you know what, they're the best at "X". And I don't think people generally say that about a teacher. They're the best at "Y". Doesn't done that.
Andrew Adams:
You're right. I would say though, an instructor can teach.
James Lesniak:
Sure.
Andrew Adams:
I mean, someone who's been doing... you know, you mentioned your specialty, not specialty, but you have done the most experience with Japanese and Okinawan martial arts. Same for me. If someone who's been doing, you know, Shōrin-ryū Karate for 65 years, at this point and they're you know, been having their own school. They're probably an instructor. That doesn't mean they can't teach something that's not Shōrin-ryū. They can teach principles that aren't that specific discipline. So, I do think an instructor can teach.
James Lesniak:
Absolutely.
Andrew Adams:
I think teachers can instruct if they're instructing one specific thing, you know, giving instruction is not the same thing as being an instructor.
James Lesniak:
So, now here's the last, for me, the last piece of this discussion. I think we would agree, at least I would say, that an instructor and a teacher could coach. But could a coach necessarily instruct and teach? I think it's a stronger relationship in one direction than it is the other.
Andrew Adams:
It is, but you said can they. The answer is yes. Of course, you could. I mean, I could make it an argument for... I'm sure there are coaches out there who do instruct and are instructors and vice versa. But I do think it does go easier one way than the other. You're right.
James Lesniak:
Yeah, and I think this is a great topic to take into the Facebook group. You know, when this episode launches which will be in a few weeks...573 so as of our recording on this, this is gonna be 1, 2, no just a couple of weeks from when we're recording this. You know, I hope that people will watch, listen, and jump into the Facebook group, whistlekick Martial Arts Radio - Behind the Scenes, is the easiest way to search it and just let us know what you think. You know, and I think on the top of that, are there other somewhat generic terms that should be included in this Teacher, coach, instructor, we added in professor without even talking about it ahead of time, it just kinda came up organically. Is there something else we're missing? If there is, how do those relate? Is there a necessary hierarchy? Are there places where those terms are inappropriate? I think that's the easiest place to start. So, I wanna see what people think.
Andrew Adams:
Yeah, and I would be interested in sticking to Western terminology. Like, I mean, yes, we can start bringing in Sensei and Shifu and...
James Lesniak:
I'd really rather not.
Andrew Adams:
...but let's not. I would rather not. I would like to stick with Western terminology that we're used to, you know.
James Lesniak:
It's a different kind of discussion when we start bringing those.
Andrew Adams:
Yeah, absolutely. What I thought of was Mentor, you know, and I think that adds in a different complexity.
James Lesniak:
That is a great thing to do. Let's serve that up. If you wanna add your feelings on the term Mentor, you know, let's jump in. I really love it when we have good discussion in that group. I think it's a lot of fun. I think it adds some context to the things that we talk about and it gives us opportunity to look at what people want us to discuss. So, there's a little bit of selfishness in there. That's a lot of selfishness. Let's call it what it is.
Andrew Adams:
All right. But now, let's get some good discussion in there. That would be awesome.
James Lesniak:
Yeah, anything else before we roll out?
Andrew Adams:
No, I don't think so. It's good.
James Lesniak:
All right. Well, like we said, if you wanna add to the conversation, go to Facebook - whistlekick Martial Arts Radio - Behind the Scenes. Of course, this episode, every episode is on whisltekickmartialartsradio.com. The disaster of the triple hacking has been resolved. We are digging out from the holes. The new site is up and running and no, it's not finished but at least all the functional stuff is there and we're wheeling back and cleaning it up. What are you gonna find over there? You're gonna find photos, and videos, and links, and notes, and a place to comment. So, if you want your comment to exist outside of Facebook, that's where you can put it. And if you wanna support what we're doing, go to Patreon. Leave us some money. You could also share episodes. You could tell people what's going on. You could buy some at whisltekick.com. Anything that you do to support really goes a long way. It helps emotionally and it helps financially. If you see somebody out there wearing whistlekick, say hello. If you've got guest suggestions, topic suggestions, let us know. Email me jeremy@whistlekick.com. Our social media's @whistlekick and that's it. So, say it with me, Andrew. Until next time...
James Lesniak and Andrew Adams:
Train hard, smile, and have a great day!