Episode 622 - Mr. Steve Grogan
Mr. Steve Grogan is a Martial Arts practitioner and instructor at the Geek Wing Chun Inc.
Martial Arts as a whole don’t have an end game. It’s not like you can say “Oh well, I’m good enough” and then you stop training. So, that is an ever-expanding infinite ocean of possibility.
Mr. Steve Grogan - Episode 622
Mr. Steve Grogan has a unique relationship with Martial Arts. He has a deep affinity for teaching Martial Arts which started when he began training. Presently, Mr. Grogan runs a YouTube channel where people who want to learn martial arts for free, may do so. Mr. Grogan also runs a company called Geek Wing Chun Inc. where he provides home-based training courses for those who want to get training in Wing Chun, especially in the Pandemic. Listen as Mr. Steve Grogan tells the “why” on his passion for Martial Arts.
Show Notes
Show Transcript
You can read the transcript below.
Jeremy Lesniak:
What's happening, everybody? Welcome. This is a whistlekick Martial Arts Radio, Episode 622, with my guest today, Mr. Steve Grogan. I am of course, Jeremy Lesniak, I'm your host here for the show founder of whistlekick, where everything we do is in support of the traditional martial arts. Doesn't matter what you train, doesn't matter how long you've been trained, doesn't matter where you are, the things that we do, are in respect in support of you, and your pursuits to become a better martial artist. What does that mean? Well, it means a lot of different things. And the easiest way to figure all of it out, is to go to whistlekick.com, because we do a bunch of stuff. And if you go there, you're going to see all the different things that we've got going on. One of those things is our store. Yes, we sell some stuff, it's one of the ways we pay the bills. And if you use the code, PODCAST15, it's going to save you 15% on all the things available for sale. This show, Martial Arts Radio gets its own website, whistlekickmartialartsradio.com. We bring you two episodes each and every week, and the entire purpose behind everything we do with the show. Well, we're working hard to connect to educate and entertain you the traditional martial artists of the world. If you want to help the show, the company, all the things that we're doing for you. You've got a bunch of ways you can help. I'm going to give you three, you can buy something, I already told you about that. You could tell a friend about what we're doing because word of mouth is still the best way for us to grow. It's the way that people are finding the show primarily. And then number three, we have a Patreon, patreon.com/whistlekick. What do you get when you support us on Patreon? Well, for as little as two bucks a month, you get access to exclusive content. And the more you're willing to contribute, the more content we give you, and we even throw you some free merch. So, check out our Patreon page, patreon.com/whistlekick. All the things going on over there. Today's guest is a fellow content creator. He's got a book. He's got a bunch of stuff going over on YouTube. And we had an awesome conversation. We talked about martial arts. We talked about his experience in Wing Chun, his journey to get where he is today. And all the things that he thinks about with martial arts and how it impacts life. Not just in general, but life overall. And maybe that sounds really vague. But at the same time, I can't think of a better way to encapsulate the very conversation we just had. So, let's have it here you go. Hey, Steve, welcome to whistlekick martial arts radio.
Steve Grogan:
Hey, thanks for having me.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Yeah, of course. Thanks for being here. You know, we're going to talk about some stuff. Now, we talked about a lot of different things on this show, we talked about the people we talked about places we talked about, my brain won't let me not say things, people, places, things. We talked about martial arts, and so many different angles. And there was something when I was looking at your materials that you sent over. And listeners, you know, if you don't know, if you've never been on the show, you don't know how we do these things. But one of the things that we ask all of our guests to notice in pictures, send them out, send over, you know, some we have a form that we ask people to fill out. And you know, one of the things in the question about title, you know, listeners, or we just prefer to you by your first name, we don't always do that. And you were pretty emphatic in the way that you answered that. So that that's actually where I want to start. And we don't usually start here. You are providing resources to people you are offering your knowledge to people in a way that I don't think a lot of people are so I'm going to ask a really specific aspect of this and we'll use this to spider off. We'll talk about why did you want to start essentially teaching martial arts?
Steve Grogan:
What because it meant a lot to me? Growing up like I took to it in a way where not a lot of people do. There are a handful of reasons why people take martial arts. Maybe they're like a teen, young teen, and maybe they get picked on at school and maybe they say Mom, Dad, I want to defend myself if these bullies get physical with self-defense, or there's, you know, there could be women who live in a super-duper urban area. They don't want they want to defend themselves. If some guy comes out of the parking garage and you know, tries to do some heinous things. People who do it is they just on a whim because they are sitting around watching History Channel on Friday night, I'd rather do something else. So, they just say, oh, martial arts, I'll try that somewhere, like a hobby kind of thing. Then there are people who really do want to do tournaments and stuff, not just MMA, you know. I mean, Taekwondo, and Karate, and Judo, and all those. They had tournaments long before, and then they came along. So that's been a thing a while too. But then there's the very rare. And I don't mean to be blowing my own horn, like I'm such a unique individual. Because I'm not the only one who's done this, I think, to a certain extent, anyone who decides to teach it, as at this reason, which is it gets inside your head and your spirit or your soul, whatever you want to call it in your heart, and it changes you, or it awakens you to something about yourself, and for the better. And like I said, I think that probably gets inside everyone who is teaching now. Because I mean, it really takes something to go from someone who just wants to practice it to someone who then wants to teach it, and you're putting your own training by the wayside, you know, because I mean, even though they say when you teach it, you can get better by teaching it to someone, like, I think what they mean by that is, someone might ask a question that makes you look at something in a way you didn't before.
So, they say, you know, when you teach it, that helps you get better, but you got to figure there's a ceiling to that, you know, because whether you're finding out new things or not, I mean, you're still training when you're training beginners. You know, what I mean, you don't have anyone there to challenge you yet. You know, make sure someone has to stick with it long enough to get within your ballpark, you know, within the vicinity of your skill level. And then it's like, okay, now, they're giving me a run for my money but it meant a lot to me and my life, and I took to it more like an art form. And I'm the type of mindset where I don't know, when I want, when I see something, or encounter something where I'd like to do that and get good at that. Yeah. I go all in, you know, I put all my chips, I push all my chips forward, and I really go after it till, I get it. Sometimes that's a good thing. Sometimes it's a bad thing because you can ignore other things. And you know, like, in my current training with my current flu, I started a new Wing Chun lineage, which obviously, you know, we'll get to the history and stuff when you're ready. But in the new lineage, I do that my sequel, his name's Larry London, he teaches a rather lesser-known Wing Chun lineage, which is descends from a gentleman named [00:08:11-00:08:12]. And again, you can get more into that what that means later, but they this lineage folk has a specific focus on something called routing, you know, thinking your routes, thinking your routes into the ground and drawing your power up from the ground and really being able to hit super hard in a short distance and also even being able to not be moved by anyone unless you want to move, you know, and he said to me you go home and you do this. And you could even have your fiancé help you train like just get in your stance and put your foot your monsell out, which is a Wing Chun technique, it means asking him. He's like, extend your asking hand, ever push on your arm, push into you and just sink her pressure into your roots and she won't be able to move you unless you want to be moved and my fiancé is at zero martial arts experience, not nothing, not even linked Chun, and yet, she's pushing me around, and I'm like, Oh, my God. I've been doing Wing Chun since 95. I feel like a beginner again. Because here's someone who had no martial arts experience, and she's able to get me out of my stance and I'm just like, obsessively. You know, like, every night, I'm like, oh, Jen, come here. Push on me. I need to know I'm getting somewhere. Now.
Jeremy Lesniak:
What's her response to that? I bet a lot of the listeners know the experience of hey, honey, I just learned this new thing I want to show you can you help me? And it sometimes goes well, sometimes it doesn't go well.
Steve Grogan:
She's, man, she's so super supportive. I can't even describe it.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Oh, that's great. So, she doesn't even mind.
Steve Grogan:
Like, obviously, that's something obviously a nonviolent thing here, just shoves on my arm. And keep me push me out of my stance, try it and I got to try to keep that's obviously she doesn't have to sound like she's trying to hit me or anything. But even then, sometimes if I'm like, okay, you know what, I need to practice my reflexes. And he just swings at me anyway that comes natural to you. And she'll do that, too. So, I'm really lucky in that respect. I mean, I signed up to go do this thing in DC. It's called the Wing Chun lab, it's like a day, full day of just sparring. It's not a tournament, so there's no winner or loser or anything, but it's just going to pressure test your skills. And I mean, she's going to go with me. Even though I found out, you know, people who haven't bought a ticket, they can't enter the facility as an observer. So, she's got to go. It's down in DC. She's got to go past the time in DC. But she's willing to go with me to support me, you know. And, so I can't tell you how lucky I am that. That respect?
Jeremy Lesniak:
Nice. Nice. I want to rewind the tape. You told us something that I think is pretty important about you, in that when you do something you're all in? You know? 100%?
Steve Grogan:
Yeah.
Jeremy Lesniak:
And so, I want to know a little bit more about what your expectations or motivations were to get into martial arts. Was it something you knew you were going to be all in on? You talked about these different archetypes of people, but I don't know that we really got who you are out of that?
Steve Grogan:
Oh, well, mine was. Obviously, like I said, one of the things I wanted to talk about was the issue of self-esteem versus self-confidence. But you know, when I was a kid, and well, even today, if you see martial art fliers, where they're like, why should you do martial arts style x? Because it gives you discipline, build self-confidence, and so on. It's over. Yeah, I wanted better self-confidence, because I was the shy, quiet type for get picked on a lot in school. And, you know, verbally, but, you know, when people were sitting there saying whatever the hell they say, oh, four eyes or whatever. And that's the thing compared to things they really said. But I always had like, in my mind, I always had a snarky comeback. But I never said it. Because I stopped myself because I'm like if I say some thing bad, and people that are listening in start laughing, like if I make a fool of the bully, he might, in his embarrassment, decide, okay, it's time to get physical. You know, I mean, you might not try to knock my block off because I made a move of a fool. And I didn't know that I could handle myself if they did that. So, I wanted to get into martial arts for self-defense. And to free up my inner I don't know what kind of... This is a family friendly show. Hopefully I can get away with saying this “free up my inner wise”.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Yes. That's fine. Yeah.
Steve Grogan:
You know because I always, I mean, like, I think really quick. I think really quick on my feet, I have real like that, and I just have really good ability to have a really good snappy comeback, and but like I said, I didn't want to do it because I worried it would get physical. And so that is how I started out. Wanting just the physical skill.
Jeremy Lesniak:
If you found something that worked for you, if you kept doing it, you're still doing it. There was something about it that worked for you.
Steve Grogan:
Right, well, I mean, like I said, like I started with judo. And I was there only about six months because I mean, they focused a lot on tournaments, and not a lot about, you know how someone would come at you on the street. He basically started there are two things they do in judo for sparring, you either start right away on the ground, doing mat work, or you do the thing where you're standing up and you walk toward each other and you like grab on each other's skis, and you move around and you try to feel for the right moment to throw someone, you know, but not a lot of real bites started out that way. So, I wanted something that was more from that position, which obviously would be a striking art, you know, and I went to this one school that said, I saw the advertisement, it's like, come here and learn. Tiger club, Tiger kung fu Eagle. I can't remember all the others that have claimed. And it also taught weapons and a whole bunch of different forms of Tai Chi as well sun style Bagua all that. But they didn't really teach. Also, they didn't really teach a really realistic. It was more like the acrobatic like Wushu type of stuff.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Sure.
Steve Grogan:
And then I was just like, yeah, man. But I mean, to be honest, the thing that got me started, of course, was interested in finding a martial art in general was, of course, like many people's entry into martial arts was Bruce Lee. I can't remember the exact thing that started it all was a long time ago; they were offering a package deal where you could get HBO and Cinemax combined for discounts that if you just rented one or the other. Individually, they cost more, but together, they cost less, you know, that kind of whole, two for one type of deal. And the very first night we had it, they played fist a few furies, aka Big Boss, Fists of Fury, aka Chinese connection. And then return of the dragon, also known as way of the dragon. They played all of them, one after the other that first night we had. And then they yeah, and then they also played a best of martial arts compilation type of thing hosted by John Saxon was in him to the drain with Bruce, he was the Mr. Roper. Not jack tripper's landlord.
Jeremy Lesniak:
But there's a name that, you know, only the real diehard old school martial arts movie fans are going to remember his name?
Steve Grogan:
Yeah. And he was also Nancy's dad in the original Nightmare on Elm Street. Oh, that I didn't know. And he reappeared in Nightmare on Elm Street. Pretty. And dream warriors, which was like probably the coolest. My opinion probably the coolest sequel of any movie ever. So, it's got a rival in aliens and godfather to dream warriors last. Oh, yeah. And that's the other thing like we were talking about going out and left field before we started the interview. I can go out on tangents like a mile. A mile wide...
Jeremy Lesniak:
Hallmark of the show. Don't worry about it.
Steve Grogan:
Yeah. But so, the reason I bring up the compilation part is because John Saxon was narrating history of kung fu movies. And he talked about when Bruce Lee came around, and he said as a young man, Bruce Lee became a devotee of Wing Chun. And it showed a very small clip from this movie called Warriors Two, which was not a sequel, there was no warriors one it was from what I understand it was like a bad grammar thing. It was like, instead of Two Warriors, it was Warriors Two like you show up with your buddy, we are warriors two. Bad grammar is what it means. So, it showed a clip of the guy doing the wooden dummy and part of the Biu Jee form just looked really cool. And I wanted to take it. I wanted to learn Wing Chun right away, but I don't know I just for some reason, I just settled on. First thing I found which was Judo. And then when I got it, I didn't really want to do that anymore. I started to look around. I looked around for Wing Chun and there actually was a school back then. I had my mom take me out that night to try to find it. We couldn't find it. But we stumbled across because listeners got to remember this is back in the day of GPS on your phone. I think it might have been 93/94. It might have been before GPS, period. You know very few people had GPS is back then. They were more expensive back now. Yeah, you got to buy $100 GPS, now you get a free app on your phone. So, we didn't find it because there was no GPS.
And so, we stumbled across the other school there. And so, I just like okay, well, I want to do Kung Fu. Oh, I'll take this for now. And then later on, I actually was able to locate the Wing Chun school and got hooked and started. I remember going in was around Christmas time of 94. I was a senior freshman at the University at Albany. And I, basically, he ran the school, his name is Russell [00:20:38-00:28:39], and he teaches in Albany. And he ran the school in a way like, unlike any other martial arts school, I saw where they let you come in and take a free trial class. He was like, nah, you can watch tonight, and see if you like it, and come back and join. And I was like, oh, okay. Well, his house, his rules. So, I watched, and it was everything that I thought it would be from those few clips I had seen and it's real, economical, and up close. Like if someone gets in your face, which is what bullies do, because most bullies were taller than me. So, they would get up in my face. So, I knew it would work. For that reason, you know, and I came back the next week. Well, it was around Christmas time. So, I came back after New Year's. So, in January of 95, at some point, I started weighing shop.
Jeremy Lesniak:
I think I heard this in tone, not in word. But it sounded like that was kind of transitional for you that there was this that you had finally found where you felt you needed to be martial arts wise.
Steve Grogan:
Yeah. And I got confirmation of that. When I came back, and I actually joined the class, and I had, I can't remember, I don't think this happened on my first night. But if it didn't happen on my first night, it happened within my first month of being there. One of [00:22:17-00:22:19] senior students was just throwing, like just, I mean, in slow motion, because I was a newbie still, but he was throwing attacks at me to just test out, like, if I could see how to respond with the various, the blocks I had already seen, and started learning. And see who came around and was watching. He said to his, he said to the senior student, he's like, wow, he picks up fast. And the senior, his name was Justin, by the way, Justin's like, yeah, he's really getting good at it really fast. And it's just like, this is the style I belong, you know? Because it makes me think back in my days in Judo, where, you know, talk about this is a compare and contrast. When they were teaching us how to do the armbar, you know, I could get someone in an armbar, where they couldn't move, they felt like they couldn't move. But when other people did the armbar, to me, that hurt the way they did it, you know, because they did this thing where they took their forearm and kind of moved in, like a sign motion across your elbow as they got you into the armbar. And it hit right on some nerve and I'm like you know, whereas with me, I'm like, okay, I'm going to get that nerve today. And I put them in and I saw the arm across the elbow, and they're like, no and I just never was able to do it in the way where they did and I'm like, maybe this just isn't a fit for me. It seems like everyone else who I let do the armbar to me gets that nerve. I can't get anywhere. So, I then again, fast forwards the Wing Chun and I'm picking up inside of being told them. I'm getting really good at it inside of a month, you know, so like, there's a real something to be said for playing to your strengths. You know, for sure. Like, I don't know if you ever heard of this book is called Stress... The last version I heard it was called StrengthsFinder 2.0. It talks about how everybody loves the underdog story. Like they [00:25:00-00:25:02], based on, of course, the true story where this really short guy is determined to be in the football team and he keep going at it, despite everyone saying no, it's not going to work. And I haven't seen the movie myself. But what I remember him describing was something about how like, with by the time he was a senior, he finally got put called in and put in the game for like, literally like one play. So, he spent four years to be in a game for like, five minutes. And, you know, it's like, but they made a movie about him. Whereas now, if he was a short guy who had decided to be a jockey and the horse races, no one would have batted an eye, because, well, everyone who's short is, you know what I mean? Like, yeah, he went with something that was like, the easy win, basically, for lack of a better term and he was saying, the author of the book, this thing, how we tend to really praise people who fight against all the odds, instead of praising on people who have a hell of a lot more success, and faster and more consistent success, because they played to their strengths, because we look at that as they took the easy way out. You know, but when I read this book, it was like, super light bulb ring. I was like, yeah, yeah. Why? Why fight and struggle and all of that? There's an easy answer, they're playing to your strengths. And with the Wing Chun, I was played to my strengths, which is a very laid-back type of person. Usually takes a lot to get to me to wind me up getting mad or whatever. But relaxation is key in Wang, Chung, and sensitivity and stuff like that. So, I just think is a good fit for the kind of person I am. It sounds like.
Jeremy Lesniak:
When I take a look at some of the things that you wanted to talk about, there's a common thread here, and a lot of it, I mean, really, almost none of it is about the physical. Now, certainly, you know, in what you present on your YouTube channel, we'll get there a little bit later. But if we take that out of this list that I have in front of me, it's a very thoughtful list about things that require thinking. And longtime listeners know that, you know, that's, that's my favorite thing about martial arts is thinking about martial arts and the mental side, not just the personal growth and development side that comes from training, but the contemplation of if I think about what I'm doing, how does that change what I do? When did you start becoming? Because not everyone looks at martial arts. Not everyone spends time, you know, figuratively sitting on a rock, thinking about martial arts and how to train and what might be better and how do I do this better, etc. But it sounds like you do. Were you liking that day one did that come as you became more comfortable in Wing Chun? Where did that part of your personality and martial arts dovetail?
Steve Grogan:
Ah, well, I think it really came out. It didn't come out. In the beginning. I think it took... I think it was probably I'll say, as late as 2016. Because of my situation, you have to understand when I went to [00:29:02-00:29:05]. I mean, he, for a long time, he had class Monday through Thursday. And then once you got to a certain level, which he had given me permission to. I was able to go on Saturday mornings, as well. So, it was easy to train because, well, I always said people will train within a class six days. Theoretically, six days of the week, I didn't always make it to every class, but you know, I made it at least half of that whole time and then my situation changed. You know, I became, I got four kids now. So, tuition is a little bit was a little bit hard to come by. And but then I also then I move so that I was as close to his school anymore. However, there was another gentleman I heard of, namely Shifu Larry London, who taught and taught in another place called brought out in New York, which is, even from where I lived at the time, it was still 45 minutes. Now it's like an hour. But you know, it is what it is. And but he taught for free out of it. He was a member of the American Legion, and they let him teach out of the basement event room. And so, I was like, oh, well, I may be paying and gas, but the gas is not as much as the tuition at the other school, that's for sure. Yeah. And a lot of people, especially in Wing Chun, a lot of people frown on that kind of stuff. Like, you know, that lineage hopping type of stuff. But, you know, if I gave a damn what people thought I wouldn't get out of bed.
Jeremy Lesniak:
I think that's an important thing for all of us to remember.
Steve Grogan:
Like someone... It's like, somebody told me one time, they're like, I was telling them about this big deal people make about going from one lineage to another. And the guy, I can't remember his name, I remember he was a Chinese guy. And the reason why that's important is because of what he said. He's like, all these 21st century white boys clinging to rules that not even the Chinese people claim. If you've not even back in the day is like, you know. I mean, there are a variety of reasons, you may have to do that. Like I said, the money might be tight. The distance might be to break. Even, you know, maybe you get a job, a new job, where the hours you work, don't allow you to go to the first school, but you do. There are times you can make it to this new one. You know, I just don't see why. Starting at one place means you got to stay there till the end hell or high water, you know, it's so silly. But at any rate, my point being. Yeah, I mean, if you go to a different Taekwondo school, people don't bat an eye for some reason. Some people do. Yeah, well, I watch.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Some people do it. You know? My speculation is that when people talk about karate is not only, I mean, yeah, there's discussion and controversy about the various let's call it branches or arms of karate, you know, Okinawan versus mainland Japanese, and the founders and all those things, but there is general acceptance that at one point, karate, in the various styles of karate were pretty close to each other. Hmm. The same thing can be said about Taekwondo.
Steve Grogan:
Yes, the, I guess, like I don't hear about like, you know, like, for example, you got a Isshin-Ryu karate, and then you got children. Correct. So, I've known that there were branches that way, but I've never heard that it's always just boom. Taekwondo so like you never hear I mean, like around here where I live there's pace Taekwondo, which is that's because that's the teacher's last name. There's Brunswick Lee's Taekwondo because the school is located in Brunswick, the head teachers last name is Lee. But no differentiation in terms of, like I said, like Okinawan versus [00:33:34-00:33:35] and stuff like that.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Well, it seems like in in kung fu styles, that there is a great deal of importance placed on lineage and even more so than any other trends of martial arts. And to the point where being dramatically different and from a different region and bounded by a different person is not only identified, but celebrated. Yeah, our kung fu is not even close. Has nothing to do with that kung fu over there. Yeah, yeah, that's that seems to be the tone for some people. Right. Talking about the Chinese martial world. It sounds like that's what you're referencing.
Steve Grogan:
Oh, yeah. It's like some people say like, if someone's from the won't function, long lineage. And they see, like, if you post a video like, hey, I practice the blank Ching lineage and here's my Bong Sau how do you guys think? And you'll get people flaming you like, that's so stupid. How are you? Why are you learning to do Bong Sau that way you're going to get yourself hurt? And it's like, no, it's shut up.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Well, that part. That part seems to be universal. It is impossible I saw and I'm not going to name names, but a friend, somebody who has been on the show and some people may have seen me make this comment. But I posted a video of a forum and said, you know, this is the right way to do the forum as I understand it, and most people were commenting, thank you, I appreciate this. You did a really good job breaking that down. One person said, hey, you in this one spa, you kind of did this thing. And I don't think that's right. And, he said, oh, yeah, you're right, I thank you for offering that feedback, you know, a very open and welcoming person. And then this one person wrote this paragraph of just, you're wrong. This is so wrong. How could you be so wrong? It's really wrong. How can you be so wrong? You're really wrong. My comment was, can you be at least mildly constructive, and you're wrong here. And that part was wrong. And this is wrong. And we have these armchair martial artists who are so hell bent on winning out where people are wrong, that, you know, they're wasting all this time they can be training.
Steve Grogan:
Well, and that reminds me of something I saw on a group regarding credit, critical comments, but I'll come back. But he had asked about when the thinking part really came into. Yeah, it's because you know, I never learned like, when I was at St. John's, I had learned the three empty hand forms and the wooden dummies. And Wing Chun has only six forms. There's the pole, and then knives as well. I never got far enough to learn those. And I'm like, dang it, I want to, you know, and so, but the thing was, I had done like, there was a lot of, in and out of Spa 100% honest, I probably spent as much time out of Wing Chun as I did in it. In the classroom. I mean, I always did my forms at home and tried to train my techniques and my stance, and my footwork and kicks, and whatever I could, you know, the part missing, of course, was the in person doing something with a non-compliance partner type of stuff. I mean, it's always been with me, even if it wasn't class. But when I got started training with FIFA London, I was, you know, really, this is it. I'm 40. So, I was 40 years old. And I'm like, man, I should be better than I am thing and I want to do something. But now he's a class only once a week. So, I started asking him, what could I do at home? What should I focus on my own, and then he gave me some things, activities? And then I started browsing, you know, and internet forums and discussion forums, then I started browsing the internet, just, you know, Google search, YouTube videos. I just started to devour. I was fanatical about trying to find things I could do on my own, so I could get better, since he had only the one class a week, you know, and came up with a pretty decent list, then I actually went from having no idea what I should practice other than my forms, punches and kicks to having a surplus of activity ideas. And, you know, and then it became a matter of like, well, oh, my God, this list is so overwhelming. If I don't make some kind of schedule, I'll never, I won't get better, because they'll be too scattershot, you know? And so, I narrowed down, I'm like, okay, well, let's see, if I wanted to pick out let's say, for example, like five activities out of a list of say, 20. Oh, I'll do those for a while till I feel like, you know, I've made some decent advances in this stuff. But now it's time to change it up, then I'll pick a different file, and then swap them out. Because my whole thing is maximizing. I'm real strong advocate for maximizing time. You know, because, I mean, there's only so many hours in the day, and I live, like, with my life, there's no way I can afford to set aside, like, if I say, I want to train an hour every day. It's not in a row. If you know what I mean, I get here, I really do. Five minutes here, eight minutes there, 17 here, and it adds up to an hour. It does. But I don't think you have to do it straight to still get benefit from it.
Jeremy Lesniak:
I agree. And in fact, there's even some evidence that psychologically we consider the mental component and to a certain degree, the physical component, that there is benefit in breaking up that amount of training in in smaller chunks, or you know, there are things that you are harder to train in five minutes, versus you know, 30/42 hours and vice versa. But I want to go back, because this is a great example of a question. And I think newer listeners, especially those who are new to martial arts, they have that fanatical bent that so many others do. And they feel overwhelmed by the sheer amount of what they could train, you know, over the last 18 months or so, we have all gained so many options for home training, whether that is supplemental to our class trainer or whatever. But you talked about having a long list and picking a few things out of that list. Can you talk about how you prioritize those few things that you would work on out of the larger list?
Steve Grogan:
Well, basically, like, for example, Wing Chun is mostly upper body attack. So, I would say okay, well, you've got punch, elbow strikes, chop, hammer fist back is on strikes. You know, and of course, well, the backbone of Wing Chun is the straight punch. And so, I would be like, okay, well, that's what I should focus on that, that straight punch. And not just straight punch, like standing there. And my basic stance, which our horse stance is called, Yee Jee Kim Yeung Ma. So, but aside from practicing in just that, like, let's say, I would do, I don't know, 100 punches in my Yee Jee Kim Yeung Ma, then I'll do 100 punches, where I shift my weight, more so to my left leg, and rightly, then I'll do another 100 with a while stepping, you know, and break it up, give it some variety, but then it kind of tricks my mind into thinking I'm not doing the same thing, you know. And then on another day, I might do the other upper body techniques I talked about, although I'll be honest, the one I practice, the least, would be my elbow strikes, because I mean, to be in a position where you're doing elbow strike, you'd have to be in super close. And you usually don't want to be that close to I just don't like it. And it's rare to be as well. So, I'm like, yeah, I'll do the elbow strikes. And I always do. Again, since Wing Chun is mostly the punch and stuff like that, I always do it twice as many punches. As I do kicks, it just came to me out of the blue one day, I'm like, yeah, that seems to make sense. And then there's the struggle back and forth between. Sometimes they used to also break out and do the defensive move separately, as well. Like I practice [00:43:06-00:43:07], which is a slapping block lopsided, which is grabbing. I would practice my lop side on the wooden dummy.
And so sometimes, I would break out the defensive techniques and do just them. But then I'm like, well, “do I really have to?”. This is where my overthinking comes in. I'm like, “do I really have to break the defensive techniques out to do separately?” Or can I, in my theory, aren't I theoretically doing them when I practice? The simultaneous attack in defense mode? You know what I mean? I go back and forth on it. But those were the four main things. Well, there are five main things. I use my forms, punches, kicks, defensive technique, and then the simultaneous attack in defense. Those I figured were the nuts and bolts, basics of the system, you know, and so I would practice those. And then I also was like, well, I should work on footwork. Okay, well, when you just say footwork, it's like, that's such a practice your footwork, it's like, okay, but how? I'm the kind of person who If I can't have a repetition number, I have to have a time limit that I aim for. Because otherwise, you could practice footwork all day, you know what I mean? And then still not be done. You know, you're never done. Never done. So, I would set a limit for myself. And I'm like, some reason I obsess over getting if I want to do something for a certain amount of like a running time. I always go by like every I go in increments of 15 minutes. So, I'm like okay, well I want to do for 15 minutes. “Jeez, I can't practice footwork, 15 minutes straight”. Well, I'll do five rounds of three minutes. Or you know what I mean like, and that's just how my brain works. I can't, like I couldn't, if I wanted to do 500 punches in a day, I couldn't do 500 in a row, I'd have to do 100. And then do like, again how I said, I do half as many kicks. So that's 250, I'll do 100 punches, then I'll do 50 kicks, and then three minutes of footwork, you see what I mean? Like I divided up in increments of like to in basically in five round blocks, which, going back to something I had mentioned in my bio type stuff, where I said, I write as well. Yep, that increment, that five, round split, comes from Shakespeare used to write his plays and try to act. And most acts are in three, most plays are written in three acts. But Shakespeare wrote in five. So that's where I got division.
Jeremy Lesniak:
And I think there's a lot of value there. There's a long-standing kind of attitude within martial arts that absolutely has some value that would suggest, build the discipline of doing the 500 punches at once, or the 250 kicks at once. And I could make an argument for that. But I can also make an argument. And I think that this resonates better for me personally, and for you, and maybe for a number of listeners, that suggests how good is that 499 punch going to be? Yeah. Well, that after you've done that, 100 you're focused, maybe, but you're probably bored. And are you actually training to get better? Or are you just going through the motions? Yeah, he spent time teaching knows that, you know, keeping things exciting is critical to progress. And it sounds like the way you're splitting it up the way I would often split it up. support that engagement. I think in smaller box.
Steve Grogan:
Speaking of speaking to strength, or speaking to a different way to say it would be, speaking, doing structuring things in a way that speaks to your own personal mentality or to me, not demeanor. We'll just stick with mentality because I can't think of the other word I meant. Maybe your character. It's a matter of like, if you're going to press the hard line and say “no, you got to do 500 all at once”. But then by three, let's say by 300 at best. You find your mind wandering, your hands are doing the punches. You're making your body mechanically do the punches, but your mind is like, “oh man, I still got to do 250 kicks or whatever”. You know what I mean? Like, yeah, your mind is somewhere else. And or maybe you're just anxious, like might say for London when I showed him an example of the schedule, I came up with for myself. He was like, why do you do Siu Nim Tao five times a day? And it dawned on me like, yeah, why do it? Because a lot of people believe in doing Siu Nim Tao, the first form, really slow. I mean, there are some people who can do it for up to a half hour and a half, there's a real slow meditative art to it. And by obviously, by trying to do it five times a day, I again, obsessing over that five, I just I couldn't. As I'm going through it, I'm like, I can't do this part slow. I got four more times to do it, you know what I mean? So, I wasn't doing it the “right way”.
So, I was like, well, what if, instead of doing Siu Nim Tao five times, I made it a point to do any number of the forms five times a day. So, I might do Siu Nim Tao just once and do it the slow and controlled way that you're supposed to do? And then I would work, pick one form to really focus on. So, let's say okay, the second form, Chum Kiu. I'll do those one three times. And then I'll do my, say, the wooden dummy form or so, you know, so I got five. I didn't do one form five times, but I did five forms collectively, you know what I mean? So again, that's just the way my brain works. I need a structure to how I do things. I can't just randomly you know what I mean? I can't just randomly stand in the middle of the room and say, “okay, I'm going to start doing some martial arts stuff”. I need that structure to it. I need it. I'm the kind of that I needed an end game in mind.
Jeremy Lesniak:
I got it. We got it.
Steve Grogan:
Because I mean martial arts in and of itself, martial arts as a whole does not have an ending, you never thought he could say, “oh, well, I'm good enough”. And then you stop training. You know what I mean? Like, do so. So, since that is an ever-expanding infinite ocean of possibility. I can't change that, but I can make it. So, my practice has a finite goal.
Jeremy Lesniak:
I want to take a bit of a hard left here. Okay, I typically do this is not really my style, but in what you sent over, there's a subject here that I have never seen anyone mentioned before. And I want to hear I want to hear about it from you because it's intriguing. The difference between self-confidence and self-esteem and how martial arts builds one but not the other?
Steve Grogan:
Yeah. Okay. That's funny, I wanted to write an article on... I wouldn't say I'm good friends, but I'm becoming good friends with another guest yet on there. Melanie Gibson.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Melanie is great.
Steve Grogan:
And I've written some guest articles on her site. And I had said one where I want to suggest an article self-confidence. It builds self-confidence, not self-esteem. She's like, “oh, it's interesting”. But you know, my book is saying that's exactly what it does. And I'm like, “oh, I don't want to conflict with your message”. But I mean, it's like, for example, I told you how I wanted, I started wanting to learn martial arts to deal with bullies in school, and if it happened to get physical, alright, so after a while of learning, I got pretty confident that I could have handled myself if he went at me. But I still felt like crap about myself as a person, you know, like let's say, the bully came up, and he's like grammar, and I'm, like, get lost, and he got lost. And I'd be like, “oh, yeah, cool”. If that had gotten physical, I could have handled it. And then eventually, my thoughts about that would stop. And then I'm just sitting there, looking out the window. And I'm like, the thought floats across my brain. I'm a really crappy person. I'm a garbage human being, you know, I just had this low self-esteem. The difference? The thing is not a lot of people explains the difference. A lot of people think the terms are interchangeable. And they're not. self-esteem is about how you feel about yourself as a person. Not about how you feel like, wow, that bully got in my face and swung at me and I knocked him out with one punch. I'm a good puncher. You know what I mean? That's confidence in it. Right? And that's a feeling good about an ability that has nothing to do with how you feel about yourself. You know what I mean? Because you can be like, I'm a good puncher, but I'm a crappy person. You see, what I'm saying?
Jeremy Lesniak:
Vice versa. You can be a good person. And yeah, we're a poorly skilled Martial Artist.
Steve Grogan:
Right, right.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Anything in theory.
Steve Grogan:
But here's the thing about that. The person with good self-esteem says they're a crappy puncher. You want to know how they react to that? Either saying, so what? Or they say, yeah, I'm a crappy puncher. Well, I don't want to be so I'm not going to sit here whine about it. I'm going to do what I have to do to get better. Whereas the person with bad self-esteem would be like, I'm a crappy puncher, too. I'm a bad person and a crappy puncher, all my life sucks. I'm useless. I'm worthless. I'm not going to get out of bed. You know what I mean? Its martial arts can help you. Yeah, get better skills to handle getting picked on or getting jump, or whatever. But it's not going to change how you feel about yourself. As a person, you go to class, you get a rush because the teacher said, great kick. And it's like cool, but then that rush you get from that compliment will fade. You know, and unless, well, I wouldn't say unless, because here's the thing, good self-esteem. If you have good self-esteem. You don't need to get a rush from things like that. You like hearing them? Sure, but you don't need them. You don't need external validation and that was a problem of mine for a long time. Like, I remember. You know, like, for example, if like, say you're the kind of person like, you feel like, you're single and you feel like crap, because you're single. And then you must be a bad person, then no one wants to be with me romantically. And then you get a girlfriend or boyfriend, whatever. And you think, wow, yeah. Well, I must be cool, or a good person that someone wants to be with me. And it's like, yeah, great. But then so what does that mean? If they dump you? Right? You know what I mean? So now, does that mean that you really are crappy? They just didn't see it? And then when they realized you were terrible, then they don't do. I mean, what? You know what I mean? It's like, or does that mean, “oh, I was a good person. Now, I'm a crappy person again”. So, that was my problem point. And I never got, I was never one of these people who like, if a girlfriend broke up with me, I said to myself, “Oh, great. She dumped me now, no one will ever love me again”. And I never got to that point. I have known other people who did. But I never went there, myself. It was more about you know, feeling like I was a bad person or a bad partner. You know, especially when sometimes people dump you and they tell you why. If they just say it's not working out, you don't have to be mean about it. You know what I mean? And I don't think anyone is, well, it's different if you got somebody who's cheating on you nonstop or beating the hell out of you. Yeah, they're just a bad, they're bad. They're not a good person at all. If they do that kind of stuff. But if you got someone who just says, like, I think more often than not, it's not that one person's the bad partner, and the other was, whatever. It's more like, if you hook up with the wrong person, then it's, you know what I mean? It's like this is not compatible.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Exactly, we've all got our baggage, we've all got our histories. Yeah. And you can handle your stuff and but there's still going to become part of your character, what you've experienced your history, right? Makes you who you are. Right? And, yeah, we have this psychological condition where we, individually must remain the heroes in our own story. And we will do incredible mental gymnastics to make remain the hero, no matter what actions we take, right? We've all seen people that we never would have imagined, would have done terrible things do terrible things, right? And they justify it and sometimes their own expense.
Steve Grogan:
And it's so I'm just going to, I'm just going to say like, in keeping with another example of what someone would think, if they have good self-esteem versus, they don't. For example, when one girlfriend broke up with me, she's like, this isn't working out. You're just too intense, Steve. And I'm like, “What?” And then, I mean, other people have said that about to the point where I was like, “oh, well, this isn't just for that one before”. Yeah, this isn't just her saying it's other people. And then when I had bad self-esteem, it would send me off in a tailspin. Like, what is it? What does that mean? What do they mean, I'm too intense? How do I dial it down? I don't want to be too intense, like someone who's like a scary, overbearing, creepy guy or something. And then nowadays, because I've been through a lot of the encouragement of a previous partner, she was super huge into, you know, mental health and things of that nature, she got me off my butt to finally get a mental health evaluation. And then, you know, found out certain things about myself, and they're like here, will prescribe you this. And now, just so you know, meds alone won't do it, you need to go get consistent counseling/therapy. So, after going through that, and years and years, I mean, my self-esteem has just increased exponentially in those last three or four years over any advancements I had before that.
So, no matter what the rest of that relationship was, like, which I'll just you know, is not good. Oh, if nothing else, I cannot take that away from her sheet without, I'm sure I would have gotten around to it, or someone else might have pushed me to do it sooner or later. But just thank God, you know how they say that old cliche, everyone comes in your life for a reason? Well, that was her reason, get me off my butt and get me where I'm at today. I mean, obviously, most of the work was done by me. Because, you know, there's nothing she could do to make my self-esteem raise, it would either go up, or I had to do that work myself, but she's doing really... She did encourage me to get out the door. And do it. And here we are today. But, you know, nowadays, if someone says to me, I'm breaking up, but you're too intense. I just shrugged it off. Okay. Because what they mean is, I'm too intense for them. But if you find someone, you're not too intense for, then that means that their statement is not universal. And they finally helped me really realize a lot of people have said to me things to try to make me feel better in the past. Like, if something like “Oh, man, she called me too intense, I'm really bummed out about”. And my friend would say, “her statement has nothing to do with you”.
Like, how does it have nothing to do with me when it was about me? I don't get it. You know, and then I finally realized what they mean is like, for example, if you had dated that woman, instead of me. And let's say, like, you just said, you've had people call you intense as well, she would have said the same thing. You know what I mean? So, that's why it's just that my type of personality. And if I'm not the only person in the world is like this, then she'd say that about any. So, it's all about her, what's too intense for her. So that's why it has nothing to do with me, and I'm like, wow, I finally get it, you know, it was so coo to have that finally click but again, if you have the better self-esteem, someone just says this isn't working out, you just say okay, and you go on your way, you know, and it's just such a weight lifted, to have that feeling, to just let these kinds of things just, instead of really digging inside and hitting that, you know, hitting that emotional, soft spot, to just let them bounce off.
Jeremy Lesniak:
There's a quote, maybe people would call it more of a cliche that I'm trying to find, I'm going to, I can't find it. So, I'm just going to butcher it. And then I want to ask you about the work that you're doing on YouTube and your book and all that. If it's something about if a fish is judged on its ability to fly, it'll never see its value, something like that. Right, right. Yeah. There are so many people in the world and there are so many martial arts and there are so many martial artists. And, you know, you talked about and to me, this is kind of coming full circle, you know, you had a passion for martial arts, you were interested, and you didn't let that initial school. Knock that out of you. You didn't say, “oh, martial art isn't for me”. And unfortunately, a lot of people say that when they don't find the right school, the first try, right, and you kept at it and you found the school that worked for you, you found what worked for you. And I think you can apply the same lesson, easier to say, than do for sure. When it comes to personal relationships, whether they be platonic or romantic. And, you know, we all have value, we're all figuring our own stuff out. And we all have people out there that will click for us. And unfortunately, some of us, you know, live in the woods. I'm raising my hand, and there aren't many people around and so a little bit harder to find people that we click with. And some of us have other things, you know, one of the things I've learned of age is that far fewer of us have great, healthy, broad friendship circles than television and movies and internet would suggest to us, most of us have a couple really good friends and a bunch of acquaintances.
Steve Grogan:
Yeah, and it's fine. Like you said that about platonic thing to even just try. I remember just trying to make when I was just talking to people in high school, and I was super huge in fanatical just like I am about martial arts. Like I told you when I get interested in something, I dive in without even checking the water first, I just dive in headfirst and I get into it. I was the same way originally, like a long time ago with horror movies. And I just, I don't know, I just like the stories and the plots. I especially like, the way that they made special effects artists made the unreal look real. You know, I just thought that was cool. And when talk about it with people. And like I said, I would dig deep and find out like, oh, yeah, you know that dude who did the gore effects for Friday the 13th? He did Dawn of the Dead and Dave of the Dead. You know what I mean? Like, I would go fanatical about stuff like that. When people wound up being like, well, dude, you're a little weird. I'm like, why? What? Yeah, dude, you're still little too into those horror movies. Are you going to be the next? You're going to be the next Son of Sam, man. And I'm like, no, I just like movies. You know? And a long time ago used to bother me when I would try to open up and be friendly with people. So, I'm like, you know, I just won't bring up that I like horror movies. I was pretend I like comedies better. You know what I mean? But nowadays, I'm like, with again, fast forward to contrast with the better self-esteem version of Steve. I don't like whatever. You're an idiot. You know what I mean? It's like, I mean, think about how many thinks about how many serial killers there were before. Horror movies became as drastic as they are. What the heck did they watch? You know what I mean? You just did?
Jeremy Lesniak:
Yeah. Correlation and causation are not the same.
Steve Grogan:
All right. So, now I realize I'm like, okay, well, that person's just kind of bizarre for thinking that.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Let's talk about YouTube. Because a conversation on serial killers in martial arts is not one, we're going to have time to unpack. Yeah, actually, there was something really interesting there. Yeah, but maybe we'll have to have you back for that one. Yeah. You have mentioned, I think at the top of the show, you've started your own Wing Chun lineage. You're putting that information out there on YouTube, you've got to [01:06:54-01:06:57].
Steve Grogan:
I have not started my own lineage. I mean, everyone's says, theoretically, [01:07:03-01:07:07]. Like when I said, “call me”, “what do I want to be called by”? “I want to be called Steve. Because you can't call me... I would never portray myself as you cannot call me, don't call me Shifu. Because no one has bestowed that no one has said you've learned the system enough for you can be called Shifu now. Okay. until slash, unless I get recognized that. No, I'm going to be 100% honest.
Jeremy Lesniak:
I know, I understand and relate very strongly to that statement. So, forget that part of it. But you do have a YouTube channel where you're sharing some information. Can you tell the listeners about that?
Steve Grogan:
Yeah, I mean, it started with me wanting like I told you, when I started training with [01:07:49-01:07:50], London, and he does only one class a week. I mean, he would train more but with me, but it's really hard to make a broad elven more than once a week being an hour each way. So, I had to settle for the next best thing, which is whatever I can do on my own, versus whatever I can rope, family, friends and loved ones into doing with me. And obviously the family, friends and loved ones don't know Wing Chun. So that leaves a big question of well, what the heck do I do and in terms of Chi Sal. You know, because if you're practicing with people who don't know what the heck Shifu is, then they cannot do Chi Sal with you. At least I should say the right way. And if anyone out there doesn't know what she said is we don't want to get into a long explanation of that. Look it up. Chi Sal.
Jeremy Lesniak:
A lot of people notice [01:08:38-01:08:39] ...
Steve Grogan:
Yeah, yeah.
Jeremy Lesniak:
But even outside Chinese martial, right. We're just again, not sure.
Steve Grogan:
Right. I'm just used to people saying what the heck is that? Do I just say look it up? But, no. So, I said, I spent a lot of time digging around trying to find things I could do. I even found something I could do. That solved the pesky Chi Sal question. What if no one around me knows what it even is? Through a courtesy of a video done by a guy named Tom [01:09:10-01:09:12], he's a Wing Chun guy. He's in Chicago. He used to be a cop. He's a very outspoken guy. You know? But still, I mean, here's the other thing. I don't pay attention to anyone. They say, oh, that guy sucks. Like why? Well, he's got an ego problem. Okay, but can he do Wing Chun? Good luck. That's good enough for me. You know, I don't believe in shutting people out because they have bad attitudes. If they got skill, then I just watched what they're doing. And I'm like, oh, well. He can do something I can't do, that's cool. I should work on that. You know, I mean, like, if you discount people by their attitude or because they're a crappy person. I mean, he would just miss out on a lot. As sad as it is, but anyway, I spent a lot of time gathering up these tips on how to train at home, not just solo stuff, but with people who might not know, Wing Chun or might not be a martial artist of any kind. And I was like, you know what I should. At first, the idea was I just assembled them into an hour, think about it. I can't remember which came the YouTube channel, or the Lone Warrior book. Well, they're kind of like, around the same time. But my idea was, you know what, I just took a lot of time gathering these up. I wish. Wouldn't it be cool. If someone else had already done that? Well, maybe no one did it for me, but I can do it. So, excuse me, I just started to share random tips, free tips and ideas for people who want to get better at Wing Chun but can't make it to class as much as they want. You know, maybe on the nights that you do make it, it's a classroom full of beginners. So, you still don't get any cheese out practice. You know what I mean? And that was the initial thrust of the channel. Then I started thinking about, you know, if you don't eat right, and if you don't fuel your body with the proper fuel. And if you don't exercise to me, you're going to be sluggish and out of shape. And, you know, give up easier, like, you'll get winded easier and have less stamina and everything, blah, blah, blah. So, I should have some tips on exercise and nutrition, as well. And so, there was that. And then my adventures with that where I started out with things like P90X and insanity in beach body type workouts. And then I moved, I realized things really took off, when I found out about something called high intensity training, which is just sounds like a lazy person's workout come true, once a week 30 to 40 minutes tops. But that combined with proper nutrition, I was 241 pounds at the beginning of January 2020. I nowadays, I'm still trying to get down to my “ideal body weight”. But now I fluctuate between 163 and 166. So, anyone who thinks once a week, for 30 minutes can't work. I invite you to look at my before and after pictures. And you know, it does the trick. So, I started offering exercise and nutrition tips/ also making videos about like my struggles and stuff being realistic about that. Because I think that's another thing like people look at a guy like Tony Horton who did P90X, and to see how rich he is and stuff at 50, or whatever, however old he is now. And they think, wow, well to be like that. I'm 50 now, but I can't start now and get like that. You know what I mean? Like people think you had to have started like that when you were like, young enough to walk to be that fit now. And it's not true. All this stuff about metabolism slowing down, don't eat after eight o'clock and all that. There's just so many silly myths out there. And I said about wanting to bust them. And well, here's the thing, people will either listen and take it into consideration, or they'll say, no, my belief is the right one. And they'll stick with what they believe. And that's fine, too. I just wanted to; I just feel like doing my part. Putting my word out there. And my thoughts. And I think a lot of people get, like, get in all these flame wars and stuff. Like they take things too personal, like you say to them, it doesn't matter if high protein, low carb, but you just have to watch your calories. And you're just saying your opinion, but people get all bent out of shape. Almost like he directly said to them. Hey, Jeremy, this one's for you. You're an idiot. Because you believe it's high protein low cut, you know what I mean? Like they take it like you said it to them directly, like a personal insult.
Jeremy Lesniak:
And we live in this time when, you know, whether we're talking martial arts or diet or anything, people feel like they have to be put into these corners, these camps and they have to defend it. So otherwise, everything they've done up until now is irrelevant. It doesn't matter if their way is viable. If there's another way that's viable, then it could be better and what they've done might not be the best, and Heaven forbid, that they've invested any time in the thing that might not be the best because their ego isn't sufficient, right?
Steve Grogan:
That's another example of a problem. Has low self-esteem. Because if they had good, they wouldn't care. But then speaking of myth busting, then I also started to think about and this was actually added at the original thing was it went okay, Wing Chun tips. Oh, and then exercise, it was just a hop, skip and jump to adding exercise and nutrition. But then the more I realized how much better my self-esteem had gotten, the more I realized I'm like, you know, I'm busting this exercise nutrition myth. I started one playlist on the YouTube channel, it's called Fighting Words where I share my, because any, like I said, anytime you share your opinion, people think you're starting prep, just because you shared your opinion. Like, you're saying, I think of something this way. So that means everyone else wrong. And you're not... You're just sharing your opinion. But so, I jokingly called it Fighting Words. Because I imagine the things in that playlist would cause the most flame war stuff. You know, oddly enough, those are the videos that have gotten the most people saying I agree with you. But it didn't work out that way. But I thought to myself, well, I'm saying this myth, here's a myth in nutrition myth, here's a martial art myth. Here's this, here's that. And now my self-esteem is getting better. And I've done this through emails, medication, and counseling. I'm like, you know, why not also talk about mental health. And I said, I actually started talking about it on this website called Marshall talk. And I posted. I said, mental health is the most neglected aspect, not only of martial arts, but of life in general. And I went on a big, huge, long rant about, about what I meant by that and why I felt that way. And explaining things I had been diagnosed with, and actually got a lot of praise on there about forth me and forthcoming candor, and everything. And I started to do that on YouTube, as well, I have mental health, I'm going to actually start up an entire playlist that's devoted to self-esteem, because I'm just so sick of like the misinformation now, people thinking, self-esteem, self-confidence, and even arrogance and narcissism are all interchangeable. It's like no feeling good about yourself saying, I'm a good person. That's not arrogance. You know what I mean? Like, I mean, unless you're out there, you know, strangling cats and kicking babies. And you're saying, I'm a good person, then it's like no, dude. You need help.
Jeremy Lesniak:
If you want to find the YouTube channel, let's we talked about, I want to make sure that they know how to find it.
Steve Grogan:
Easiest thing to do is just type, just go even if you go to just Google or YouTube itself, just typing geek Wing Chun, and I'll be the first
Jeremy Lesniak:
And of course, you know, in case somebody is new, and they don't know that we do this, we have shownotes at whistlekickmartialartsradio.com. And we probably right.
Steve Grogan:
And then you also asked about the book and stuff. So, the reason why the book exists is because I summarized what I feel for all my best tips into the book. And whereas the tips on the channel are free, the book costs, because you're paying for the convenience of the fact that I summed up all my best tips into one spot, so you don't have to dig around through hundreds of videos. Find them.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Yeah, perfect. All right. Well, cool. We're going to link all this stuff. And you've got, you know, a website and Facebook and Twitter, and you're all over the place that Geek Wing Chun, that's you? Nobody else? That's you. So fairly easy to find.
Steve Grogan:
Yep.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Which is cool. And, you know, I just kicked things I apologize. And so yeah, I think you've probably been hearing, and this is a good time for us to fade out. But I want to ask you for one more thing as we do and that is, you know, you've talked about a lot of good stuff we have covered a wide variety of topics on this episode than just about any episode, I think is awesome. I absolutely love when we do this, because that means we get something for everyone. But if they were to kind of not necessarily sum up, but close up our conversation today, with respect to the listeners, you know, I'm going to record an outro later, but this is your last chance to talk to them. So, what would you say to them as we fade out here?
Steve Grogan:
Basically, I would say, you know, at my channel, again, not to overly blow my own horn but I think you get an A view of Wing Chun at my channel that you might not get in other places. And I know for a fact You definitely don't get stuff about mental health and self-esteem on other martial art channels. And I know because I look because I'm like, you know, people always say, oh, when you're starting a YouTube channel, you got to find your niche. And then it's even better if you find a sub niche, and I hit a goldmine. No one's talking about how mental health can affect mental health can affect it. So, you don't want to get out of bed to go to work, which is something you know, you have to earn money to live, you know. But if you don't want to even get out of bed to earn money, if you think you're going to want to get out of bed to do martial arts, which is an “optional thing” for you. And I know, for us, it's not optional, but you know what I mean, it's like, you don't have to survive. You don't have to do martial arts to survive, you do have to work so you can pay rent and utilities and buy food. So, you'll definitely get a unique take on all of that. And even the exercise stuff is unique because everyone's doing, everyone's pushing, go to the gym six days a week for an hour at a time. And then this whole once a week, 30 minutes flies in the face of everything, but it works. And you stick with me and see the transformation and hear me out, you'll understand. You know, like I said, you'll understand a different viewpoint. And you'll either try it out, or you'll stick with what you do. And that's fine as well.
Jeremy Lesniak:
You know, we've never tracked the number of topics that we've covered in a particular episode. But if we did, I suspect that this episode might be one of the ones where we talked about the most different stuff. And if you know me, longtime listeners, you know, I love that I could go all over the map, and we did on this episode. And that's one of my favorite things about what we do. And I really want to thank Steve for his willingness to go in all these different directions for the duration of the shows. Awesome. Thank you so much. If you want to go deeper on this episode, go to whistlekickmartialarts radio.com. That's where we've got the links for all the things that we talked about Episode 622. You can go right direct to Steve's YouTube, website, recipes, social media, all that stuff that we chatted about today. Now, if you want to support us, if you think that the episodes that we put out are worth a little bit of money, consider supporting us on Patreon. consider making a purchase at whistlekick.com. And if you want the free support version, v1, the version of helping us out that doesn't cost you a dime. Well bring up a friend, she's somebody messaged, “Hey, have you guys checked out this show?” You know what's going on with whistlekick? They're doing some cool stuff. And if you've got feedback, if you have ways to help us make cooler stuff, we want to hear it. Best way email me jeremy@whistlekick.com or social media is @whistlekick. And if you've got guest suggestions, topic suggestions, you can leave them at the website. You can email me whatever works for you. Now, that's all I've got for you today. Until next time, train hard, smile and have a great day.