Episode 680 - Mr. Osric Chau
Mr. Osric Chau is a martial arts practitioner and actor best known for his work in the series Supernatural.
I didn’t even knew what Wushu was. I just knew that we were training. It was every training montage that I had seen in every movie. So, it was like every movie was in the back of my mind as we were training. I just knew that no matter how tired we were or how much pain we’re in, we just kept showing up and it just became my thing…
Mr. Osric Chau - Episode 680
Mr. Osric Chau is a Canadian actor, best known for his role as Kevin Tran in the CW series Supernatural, Vogel in the BBC America series Dirk Gently's Holistic Detective Agency, and Ryan Choi in the TV shows set in the Arrowverse.
In this episode, Mr. Osric Chau talks about how he started his journey into the martial arts and eventually became a stuntman and actor. Listen and join the conversation!
Show Notes
You may check out Mr. Osric Chau's school on Facebook and Twitter.
Show Transcript
You can read the transcript below.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Hello, and welcome. This is whistlekick Martial Arts Radio Episode 680. With my guest today, Osric Chau. I'm Jeremy Lesniak, host for the show, founder here at whistlekick, where everything we do is in support of the traditional martial arts. If you want to see everything that we do, well, check out whistlekick.com that's where you'll find everything we're doing. And it's also the place to find our store. And if you use the code, PODCAST15 that 15% of anything you find over there, there's a constantly rotating stock of items, everything from apparel, to training products, to programs, so go check it out, the show gets its own website, whistlekickmartialartsradio.com, we bring you two episodes each and every week. With the goal of well, we're working hard to connect and educate and entertain traditional martial artists throughout the world. If you want to support the work we do, there are lots of ways you can do that you can make a purchase, you could follow us on social media, we're at whistlekick everywhere. Or you could join the Patreon, patreon.com/whistlekick. Patreon is a place where we post exclusive content and you can get in on it for as little as $2 a month. And if you want the full list of all the ways you can help, as well as a constantly rotating mix of behind the scenes and you know, other fun stuff. Check out whistlekick.com/family.
Andrew and I had the good fortune of meeting today's guest at Rhode Island Comic Con in 2021. And I knew pretty much from moment one, this was somebody that I was going to have a fun conversation with. And I did, we had a blast. And I didn't do a ton of talking, which is kind of standard for the show. But I didn't have to Osric just kind of went and he was super open about everything. And what we get is this conversation with someone who built a life with and I think to a certain degree by the support of their martial arts training. I'm not gonna spoil anything here. You may know his name, and some of the things he's done. In fact, we didn't name drop any of the things that he's done, so you might want to look him up at some point. But uh, it's a good chat. Hello.
Osric Chau:
Hey, Jeremy. How are you?
Jeremy Lesniak:
I'm doing great. How are you?
Osric Chau:
Sleepy on this side, but I'm too sleepy.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Did you just get up?
Osric Chau:
I did. Well, 40 minutes ago, but still…
Jeremy Lesniak:
Alright, you are West Coast, right? Yeah. Yeah, that's why. Thanks for doing it. And thanks for being willing to do it earlier. I'm guessing you're busy. So, yeah, no worries. Fitting stuff into the schedule. I understand how that goes. And if you're fitting stuff into a schedule, it means you find some value in it. So, thanks for finding some value in what we're doing.
Osric Chau:
Now, thank you for asking me and it's an honor. Happy to dive into some topics that I don't normally get to dive into anymore.
Jeremy Lesniak:
So, yeah, you know, we've found that that's one of the big draws for people who transitioned into a TV film. Unless it's, you know, Chuck Norris or someone who is exclusive, maybe not exclusively, but primarily known because they are a martial arts actor. They don't get to talk about their martial arts. That is very true. Which I think is a bummer.
Osric Chau:
Yeah, I mean, considering it. For me, it was such a big part of my life for a while. And then after my first job, I didn't really do anything that had anything to do with martial arts. You know, at the beginning of my career, it seemed like that was the only trajectory it could possibly go into because that was the only thing I saw. And then the street started to shift and so didn't stereotypical Asian characters that we kind of started skewing not directly at the Kung Fu training just kind of worked up. Probably, a good thing.
Jeremy Lesniak:
I think it is. I think anytime we can we can blow up stereotypes and broaden perspectives. It's a good thing. Yeah, I think so. And that's actually something that's come up on the show a number of times with guests of Asian descent that they feel like they have so many more opportunities in media now than they did even women does. A lot of them identify Crazy Rich Asians as the turning point. I don't know if you see it the same way.
Osric Chau:
I mean, it certainly was the tipping point, I didn't think there's a lot of movement happening in the years prior to. I remember, like, the two years before the movie came out, like before anyone knew it was gonna be anything like their gatherings of Asian American actors all over LA. And I tend to have quite a few of them. And, you know, we would just kind of call each other out, okay, why, why? Why do we hate each other? Why don't we support each other? Why don't we do this? And it was just like a very frank and honest conversation about what we'd all been doing as a community and how we were kind of cutting each other down. And, so there was a big shift happening already. So when the time crazy, crazy, rich Asians came out, we're all just ready to support it as a community. And, you know, like, we felt like we could not fail with this. So, it just changed a lot in a big way.
Jeremy Lesniak:
To blew up at the box office. I don't think I don't know if anybody knew it was going to be that big.
Osric Chau:
But I don't know, if you can you hope for the best. And sometimes it works out sometimes it doesn't even if the movies are, you know, amazing. It doesn't always work out. Or even if the movie is terrible, sometimes the workshop they got.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Sure. Plenty of examples of that. Was it that internal dialogue, you know, among that community? Was it fear over competing for limited roles that were so profiled?
Osric Chau:
Yeah, I think it is there. I mean, there were a lot of issues, but scarcity was one of them. And there are so few roles that you can easily do the math, if I don't get this one, then someone else will get it. If that person takes this role over me, then that person is my main competition, therefore I don't like or whatever, right? So there are so few roles that you could track down every single role that you audition for and figure out who got it because they're a bad few. Like I remember I had a lot of like, Caucasian friends who were actors, like in the early days of ballet and man, like slanderous, we got like, five, five auditions today, three yesterday, and like, it's been like that nonstop. And I'm just thinking, wow, I'm lucky if I get one week. And like, I don't know, there's problems.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Here's a question for, you know, I'm certainly outside the industry, you know, Caucasian actors, more roles available, but I would assume far more people vying for those roles. Yes. Was it still a more favorable ratio?
Osric Chau:
I think there's so many factors in place. So yes, the pool that you're in definitely makes a big difference. But at the same time, there's different pools, depending on your experience. The clout of your agent and manager were like which rooms they can get you into. But I would say even from a manager or agent's perspective, if they know that there are like 100 rooms they could get you into. Even if they can't get you into it, they'll be like, well, I can at least try 100 times whereas for someone in the minority, they're like, okay, well, there are 10 rooms that I could get them into, I have a good feeling that they're gonna pop up. So, do I want to take on someone that I know is really good, but there's only 10 rooms or someone who's got a lot of potential, but there's 100 rooms and like, you know, the ceilings higher, right, where I don't have to work as hard. Right? So, there's a lot of factors all the way down the line up and down the line that that go into that will kind of be to your advantage or disadvantage.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Sure. Anytime anyone talks about advantages, disadvantages, persistence, right, like as a martial artist, my mind goes to martial arts and, you know, I looked at what you sent over and you said something in here that you also said when we met, you know, that you attribute your time in martial arts to your success? Acting? You know, in my notes here, you know, that was not the plan.
Osric Chau:
No, I think at the time when I started acting, I mean, I fully identified myself as a martial artist. I wasn't really an actor. I was a martial artist, the aspiring stem person who kind of dabbled in acting, and I didn't really understand just how much of an impact martial arts had on my life at the time, even though I identified myself as a martial artist, like, I lived and breathed it. And in a lot of ways I applied all of the lessons that I learned in martial arts, the theology, the just the practices towards every other aspect of my life, and I didn't really understand it. So, I didn't really go to university or college. Well, I went to the University of Beijing, the Beijing sports university, and I studied wushu. And the one thing I know about being a student is that I mean, when I was in high school, I was just learning things to regurgitate onto a test and then forget and what I understood of school was that you're supposed to, essentially learn how to learn or at least find something that you enjoy doing so that you will would acquire these things, and I never found that subject except for martial arts.
And that was the first subject, even though it wasn't really, you know, your standard subject, it was the first thing that I sought out, right, I would go online, and like, in the early internet days, I would be on these forums, I would look for people who are doing this in my community, I would go to the parks and see who was practicing in the morning, like I was that guy, because I wanted to acquire this knowledge that I did not have. And I think having done martial arts for over a decade, I finally understood what it meant to learn something, right. And so when I finally liked it, I looked at acting like, oh, like, I never really gave it much credit, I didn't really understand what acting meant, or how hard it could be. And I just started applying all of the things. I'm like, Oh, it's just another skill that I have to do. And, you know, it's such a basic thing, but I, I only approached it from a martial art standpoint, and I'm like, okay, I have to train here so I can get better here. Right.
And then in terms of like, you know, your advantages and disadvantages, like, you're not going to fixate on your disadvantages, necessarily, as a martial artist, like, okay, if you have shorter arms, you're not gonna, you know, you're not going to go into a fight saying, like, okay, I'm gonna lose, because I got shorter arms and the guy's got a longer reach. No, you have to figure out what your arsenal is. And, you know, you play to those advantages. So, to that aspect, I was always a very positive thinker, because I'm like, Okay, well, there's not that many Asian parts. There are more Asian actors than I will stand up, right? So smaller pools, or because no one's really done it before, then I could be the first right. So I'm always thinking of the positive aspects of being a minority actor in this field that hadn't really created too many careers that I could replicate. And I think that was a large part of what kept me going was just me looking at this as a craft and not so much. Who can I follow in the footsteps of?
Jeremy Lesniak:
You're talking about your youth and not finding passion in academics, but being very aware of passion for martial arts. So, when someone talks about finding martial arts as a kid, there's usually an outside influence, you know, let's we're talking about youth is, you know, 16/17/18 you're not driving yourself there. Most of us aren't blessed to have martial arts schools within walking distance. And we usually don't even have the money if we do so. There's a parent, there's somebody there that at least tolerated our interest. What's that early story for? What do you look like?
Osric Chau:
Well, me, I have two brothers, younger and older. And we were all very physical kids. We watched like Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles growing on Power Rangers and all the Jackie Chan Van Damme movies my mom could pirate on VHS. And we would just like, fight a lot. I remember being like in the school year and I would like to do choreography with the other kids except they didn't understand what choreography was and I was just like punching them in the head. Because they didn't know to dodge obviously that's how you're supposed to do it. Don't get suspended for that one. But my parents actually did not want to put us into any kind of like Karate or Taekwondo one because it was expensive and two because they thought it was gonna make it worse. They felt we were gonna Have more excuses to get into fights and just be more violent. And it wasn't until I think I was. I was 13, my brother was a year younger. So me and my younger brother, we were like, we kept begging and begging. And finally, my mom found in the Chinese newspaper, these little ads with some Tai Chi teacher that was offering free classes. And I remember she would have sold it to us. She was like a used car salesman. She sold it to us. Oh, yeah, this, this is like, you know, he's like, some champion from China, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So we went there.
And I was like, testing the teacher. I'm like, okay, like, I remember being so cocky. And funny, like, I didn't even know what to look for. Because I knew so little at the time. I just, I was just so I know, skeptical of my mom, I guess. And, you know, he did Tai Chi, you know, it wasn't what I was into. And I guess my mom just kept us there long enough that we finally just started doing things. And sure enough, he was a wushu coach, he was a champion in his youth, and he came here to teach blue shoes. And there, there weren't really that many schools back then. And he was just teaching people at the park. And so that summer, me and my younger brother, we trained with him twice a day, every single day, because he just showed up at the park. And so we just went and it became an obsession. And I didn't even really know what wushu was, I just knew that, you know, we were training. It was just the thought that we were training. It was every training montage that I had seen in every movie, and it was, you know, painful stretching and conditioning were all these things. And then in the meantime, we're doing these forms that I didn't quite understand.
I'm like, oh, yeah, this is kind of like Jackie Chan for. Right. So it was like every movie was in the back of my mind as we were training. But I just knew that it didn't matter how tired we were, or how much pain we're in, we just kept showing up. And then it just became our thing. It became our identity. Like when we got back to school, like we were the wu shu kids, right. And then, and then at some point, we, you know, our community got a little bit bigger, we finally went to competition. And we saw like, oh, wow, we're very traditional, these other kids, they're, they're doing the competition forums, it looks so weird and foreign, and it doesn't make any sense. And then you start looking at him like, okay, well, it's more of a sport now less of a fighting, you know, applications kind of thing. And so you kind of adjust and, you know, every time you open up your community, you take another step out into the world, you learn something else, and it's scary at first and you hate it. And then you're like, okay, well, I guess that's the way of the future. And you can either reject it, or you can accept it and, and find your way in it. And we did that so many times. As we got into the Vancouver martial arts community, and then the Canadian, Wu shu community. And then at some point, we went to China to train to see like, okay, like, Beijing, China, that's where the hub of blue shoe is, like, I want to, I want to see what the best in the world are doing. Right. And so we went there. It was originally a two week trip. I ended up staying for seven months, because I'm like, I just want to do a semester at this university. And it's so cheap in China at the time.
And, I loved it, you know, and even thinking back to those days, like, that was my entire life. I hadn't, you know, I dropped out of school. To go to this school, technically, I enrolled in school too. But it was, you know, waking up at six every morning, going to eat at the cafeteria for like, 50 cents, and then you train all morning, you'd have lunch, you'd watch, like, another class in the evening, or in the afternoon, and then you train before dinner. And then you just do video reviews, you know, in the evening, and like, that was every single day for seven months. And like thinking back like wow, I don't see myself being able to do that now. Just the physical toll it took on me, but it was just really cool that I got to experience that and like, that's how you get good at something. Train habit. And so if I look at any skill that I want to develop today, like well, if I want to do it, I have to be able to put in the hours I have to allow myself enough recovery time to be able to go at it 100% Again, am I able to do and I'll be able to quickly determine if i i mean if something's worth chasing after you, even if I if I know I have the time for it.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Anytime we have a presentation of something that we're interested in, right, you're, in this case movies, you're watching these movies you're seeing, you've mentioned Jackie Chan a couple times. And then you talk about, you know, this older instructor who starts off centrally teaching you tai chi, and you're like,”This is not what I was expecting”. But somehow you got from your expectation to at least a reality that you were okay with, because you kept going. And not only did you keep going, it got pretty immersive, I don't imagine someone says, oh, yeah, I'm going to go to China for two weeks, which turns into seven months. And family is okay with that, unless they really see why your passion?
Osric Chau:
Yeah, I think passion is the main thing, right? Because I mean, I didn't know at the time, but I just thought I like to do whatever I want. But my parents were very supportive. And I think they just wanted all of their kids to be able to do the thing that, you know, meant something to them. My dad always told me, like, if you love what you do, you don't work a day in her life. And I took that to mean, I'm going to throw that back in your face, because I don't want to be a doctor. Turns out, he actually meant those words. And they saw that we went out of our way, in a too large margin to do this thing. I mean, and my mom was one that introduced me to us, so she didn't really say anything. But yeah, I think part of it is that there was a discovery, like, you only know so much at the beginning. Right?
There's no way anyone can just like no, that's a destination. Like that is exactly where I want to go. And this is the title. Like if you know that, like, honestly, that's a superpower. And there are people who have figured out nine mazes. And I'm like, wow, they're gonna go far, because they have that laser focus. For a lot of us, for most of us, I would say, we only have a general direction that we kind of like, and hopefully we liked it enough to start moving in that direction. But on that journey, you start to discover things and learn things that we like, even more or less. But hopefully, there's at least a couple of things. You're like, “Whoa, I didn't even know this was the thing”, that's the thing that I really want to do. It took me five years to get here. But I'm glad I went on this journey. Because it's all related to everything that I did up until this point. So, I think knowing that there's that room for discovery was important. And because every day when I was training, I was learning sexually. I was discovering things about the thing that I was doing every single day for years. I'm still learning more things about it. There's something exciting about that discovery.
Jeremy Lesniak:
You said five years is that five year mark, is that from initial exposure to training to coming back from training.
Osric Chau:
I know it was more like 10. I mean, it couldn't be however long, right? Like however long it takes you to go down that road. I mean, for me, like I hope there's a discovery. Because if I knew everything that's gonna happen to me, what's the point? Right, like, I want there to be an aspect of the unknown, like, I need there to be something for me to cover because I like if I were to break down my life in terms of purpose, and what would I want, like, I want to learn? I want to experience things, the good and the bad. And, you know, I think all of it just helps make everyone a more complete person.
Jeremy Lesniak:
What was it like, coming back from China? Most of us have no idea what it's like to make martial arts, your academic pursuit or your job, such that you're doing it that many hours a day. It must have been eye opening. It must have left you a different person.
Osric Chau:
Absolutely. So, when I came back, well, there's quite a bit. I've come back from China, I would say two times, like two big times and like completely changed my life. So, the first time it came back was after training and almost immediately I went to the national team trials issue. So, I made the Canadian national team and then I got like this buggy knee and I had to get checked out. Remember the physiotherapist just looked at my knees and I didn't even know, like, I don't even need to know what you're doing. If you want a future with your knee, you're going to stop. And he started laughing and like, okay, I guess I should stop drinking for a while. And then he took like six months off. And it was weird, obviously it was such a big change. But I remember like, the first day I took off, was prior to my plane ride, like, my body just shut down. Right? Because I was in such a state of soreness that I didn't even realize it. And the moment my body had a chance to breathe and relax, it just completely shut down for like, three days, I think everybody shut down. Like I couldn't move, I was in so right. And it was like the first day I took off. prior to me coming back.
So, I just remember, like, that was a shock, like, oh, okay, I probably shouldn't push my body, like, forward so much like, I was young, I could do it, but you definitely need some rest period. So that was a big lesson. And then coming back after not training for six months, I mean, it was a very different life, obviously very stationary, or watching a lot of people train, I still showed up for classes, you know, it helped teach and coach. But I found that I got better after the six months of recovery, because I started training my brains in a way that I never had before. Because previously, and when you go to China, I hope it's different now. But their Olympic motto is like, you know, faster, higher, stronger. Right? And essentially, that was all, like, that was the main notes that we ever got in training was like faster, like, go jump higher. Right? Do that faster. You know, okay, he's stronger here. Right? And like, how do you interpret that? Right? For, for a lot of kids, like, I'm only as strong as I am, I'm only as fast as I am. Right? We did strength training. We watch these, you know, these incredible athletes and like, how do we do more of what they're doing. And we're just like, trying to live their life essentially, to be faster, stronger, and jump higher, and all those things. And so when I was forced to take the time off, I reflected on that I'm like, Okay, there's got to be a better way, there's got to be a faster way. And that's when I started, like watching all these kids training instead of like, just doing it myself, and exhausting myself. I'm like, “Oh, actually, there's a lot of technique that you can adjust to that, you know, it's still very traditional, it's still very contemporary, but like, I started looking at it more as physics”.
And, you know, I started pulling from gymnastics, and all of these other disciplines, like oh, if, you know, like, essentially, there's only, you only have this much time in the air. And it really doesn't matter how many seconds it is, it's all a ratio, and I started playing around with like, okay, if we move our leg here to here, this will make your jump here, this will make that twist here. You know, I started thinking of it in physics terms, and I started piecing it together. So, instead of doing it 10 times, I would just do it, like twice, and then I would think for a long time, and then do the third time, and usually that would get to where I wanted or needed to be. And so I think it helps me be a better coach, it helps me be a better athlete. And I think that was probably the big step for me, in terms of, like, I don't need to train harder anymore. I just need to train more efficiently. I have to train smarter. And so I think that was the beginning of me wanting to train my brain because like, okay, I'm 21 At some point, my body's gonna start deteriorating. Like, obviously, I want to try to minimize that, but it's my brain that I have to start training now, because I've neglected for most of my life.
So, I think that was a big turning point for me, having forced myself to take some time off, just to keep my knee for the future. And then the second time it came back, because I eventually moved back to Beijing to live for a bit to pursue the film industry. It was just a different pace of life, right? Like, you're in Asia. Things move so fast. There's millions and millions of people around you. And when you come back to North America, I think my first reaction was like, wow, it feels like everyone here is moving in slow motion, and I'm sprinting. So, I think those are the two reactions coming back and certainly helped shape my life and the way I live.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Caught bits about the approach that China takes to Olympic development, the intensity, you've hinted at some of that. My understanding is that athletes are selected far earlier there, then we're familiar with in most Western countries. Oh, absolutely. And the intensity that you're describing even, even in words, even the slogan faster, stronger, higher. As you started to consider alternate approaches, you know, being thoughtful and introspective and some self analysis. Was that something you were doing at that time? Or did that have to wait until you came? Back to Canada?
Osric Chau:
I think a lot of it happened while I was unable to train, right? Again, I think training your mind. Like, when I was a kid, I just didn't really think of it. But like, that was the main thing, like I trained my way to him for like, eight years, and I didn't realize it, but like, the whole time, like, I'm not like, I'm not the type of person to get into this fight. I'm not anymore, maybe when I was kid, but like, I'm never, if I do it, right, I'm never gonna need this. Right. And so the whole time, you're thinking, you're just thinking, right? And, I think that was the biggest thing, right? Like, in China, I was thinking of like, faster, higher, stronger, I'm like, “Okay, I just had to be faster”. Like, and I was training beside a lot of the kids in the Olympic program for other sports as well. And, you know, their selection is, well, you have like, over a billion people here. And if you're going to select, you know, the ones with the genetic advantage as early as five years old, sometimes maybe even younger, put them all in a program if they want, if their parents allow it. And, you know, within that group of kids who have those natural advantages, you introduce them to the sports, and then you find the ones who love it, or who will put up with it, and just do it. And then you see, out of the 1000s, who become the hundreds who become the dozen becomes their national team, right?
Like if you have that kind of selection process, and then, you know, I'm looking at that thinking, like, I'm just the kid, going the way that I am wasn't selected, and he kind of felt like, you know, this thing chose me to some degree. And I'm like, I have to compete against all of that. Right? And I didn't really think again, this was me thinking like, these are all my disadvantages that I'm, you know, I'm fresh out of luck or too late, you know, I, I don't have this or that this genetic ability. You know, so sucks for me, right? And then when I got back, and he was in recovery, I started thinking like, Okay, this is where I, this is where I have an advantage if I can do this, like my brother was taller, like, okay, and I can't compete against my brother who's taller than me in this aspect. But because I'm shorter, I can do this thing. Better. Right? And you start finding the thing that makes you new, right, finding the thing that gives you an edge, you start inner sharpening that ax so you go in that direction.
Jeremy Lesniak:
We've had quite a few guests over the years who had some kind of roadblock to the path that they were on. Yours is your knee. And in every case, they've described that experience that either stopping point deviation, whatever, forced. I don't know that they would use this word, but I'm going to epiphany around who they are or what they were doing or where they wanted to go. And it almost sounds like that's what you're describing that had you not had the challenge with your knee. You may not have developed this other. I'm going to call it a more insightful approach to training and physicality.
Osric Chau:
Yeah, I mean, I think for me, I learned fairly early that I just can't have definitive goals like specific plans to like to some degree, like you want specific goals and plans, but I guess like, the grand scope, the Grand Master Plan, like I just never had, because things keep changing. And I keep learning things. drastically affected. And so like, you know, I do look at my life as a journey and I'm on this journey. And as I learn things, like, I'll see that, you know, the destination is going to change. And so, you know, I've been through a lot of these big epiphany moments. And if I were to attribute any success to myself, it's my ability to, to adapt and change and be versatile. Right? And I mean, I think as humans, that's what we know how to do. Right? If you get cold, you put on a jacket, it gets hot, you take it off, right? But there's this idea that, like, oh, I don't, it's the unknown, I don't know how to deal with it. But to some degree, you don't know until you get there, and then you'll figure it out. Right.
And I think I've put a lot of emphasis on myself so that I will be able to figure it out. So, I will always step out into that scary, unknown zone. And, wherever it leads me, I'm generally okay with it. And I just kind of roll with it, even if it's drastically different than what I set out to do. Because I would have learned something that made it make sense for me in the grand scheme of things. And so I try not to have any master plan that I would be so devastated if I did and actualize it. Right? Like I have a big general goal that I want to do. But there are so many ways of attacking it that it doesn't matter how I do it. Right, the way that it happens, doesn't really matter. So I have values that I want to aspire to keep. I have challenges and goals that I do want to achieve and succeed in. But yeah, how does it happen? I don't exactly know. Now, I'll probably discover it. I still know.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Willing to share any of at least the directions of those goals?
Osric Chau:
Yeah, I mean, one of my first big goals came into being when I'm like, “Okay, I want to be an active thing”. I want to push for Asian representation. And that's something that I've been doing for a while now. And at first, it was weird, because, again, we were fighting each other and we would see other Asian actors as competition. And you know, like, I struggled with myself there because like, long, how am I pushing for representation if I want more people to do this, but I also have less people do it because it would be easier for me to do that person. And it was like a weird, weird thing there until like, we finally came to kind of just disagreement, like, “Okay, if we were just all good, and we create more things for ourselves, like, then there's room for everyone. Right?” And then at some point, I just started supporting everyone, even those that I'm like, “Okay, well, if they do well, and they get this, I won't get it. You know, there came a time where I just, I'm like, you know what I'm okay”. And, then I realized, like, oh, well, now that I'm spending so much time with these guys, like when they're like my best friends, like we're so different, that it doesn't make sense for anyone to take them over me, it's, they're just a better fit for this thing. Right.
So, like, even within my own community, I got to know them well enough to know how different we really are. And that we aren't, you know, we aren't all the same. Even if we are on paper exactly the same. We're just so vastly different, how we talk or mannerisms, you know, the types of people, the vibe we give off, it's so different. So, it started mattering less and less whether I got the job or not. And then I started doing behind the cameras, things like producing, writing, directing, and then like, I actually really enjoyed this. Right, so I can attain that same goal behind the camera. And so for me, you know, like, wow, I thought I was gonna do it. You know what I don't need to do by acting anymore. I can do this way too. And now I'm going into the food industry in Vancouver and I'm like, well, actually, there's, you know, having learned the food space now like there's a lot of things that I can change here in terms of the way people look at certain cuisines and how that's accepted in this city. And we can change, you know, the culture in this city by ways of opening certain establishments and marketing in a certain way. Right like…
Jeremy Lesniak:
This is a part I have zero knowledge about what's going on with food.
Osric Chau:
Oh, so I started a couple of restaurants in Vancouver.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Let's start a couple restaurants. I've worked in a kitchen. I know how exhausting just that aspect of the businesses that nobody opens a restaurant least not successfully. On a whim. I mean, this is a big deal. And yeah, in multiple like it's come from.
Osric Chau:
It's been crazy. And the pandemic was like, the most insane timing. But my favorite restaurant in the world is a restaurant called dough chime, and couverts a vegetarian, nice restaurant. And as a vegetarian for like 10 years, it was always hard to find a restaurant that I would recommend or take people to that I liked. Yeah, but this was the first place that I just got so excited to bring anyone in everyone, including, especially my carnivorous friends, because we would have a meal. And then at the end, I'm just watching them, like did you notice that he wasn't meat here. And they're like what? You know, and they just didn't know. And it wasn't because they had all these meat substitutes or whatever. It's just because it's just a very good meal that didn't have any meat in it. And like people don't really realize that for a lot of the time. And, that's how the chef, kind of like he created it, because he's like, look, I think most most vegetarian places, they're thinking like, “Oh, here's a meat dish”. And this is how I create that meat dish with vegetables. And he's like, “Well, like, he's like, I'm dummies, and you know, if I look back into my history, a lot of these dishes are plant based already, and people just kind of forgot it”.
So, I just took these recipes, like the plants are the star of the show for most of getting these dishes regardless, and, you know, the meats just kind of there. And he's like, so I just went back, found the dishes that I like, put the vegetables up front again, and they just like, you know, seafood in a way that made people think that it should have meat in it, the flavors are there, the texture is there. It's not a meat dish at all. It's not pretending to be the dish, but it kind of gives you the memories and the flavors of it, because that's what's in our history. And you just kind of built these plant based dishes from the ground up. And it is, again, by far my favorite restaurant in the world. And turns out the chef I went to high school with and he also went to school for screenwriting.
So, you know, we hung out, we were both in LA doing film stuff. And when I came back here, I just, he's like, Oh, you got to trigger this place. Like, I think you'll like it. And I just became a regular they're so fast. And then after a year of going there almost every day. He's just like, oh, well, I'm looking to expand, like I got this opportunity here this opportunity. They're like, I don't know, if you'd be interested in me I just jumped at the chance. So that has taken over my life in a weird way. But um, it's just like, part of this adventure, this journey that I didn't expect, I still don't really understand they know way more about food and restaurants than ever have. But it's to that same end, right? Like, I can still push raising, representation opening, you know, Asian restaurants or just giving like, chefs, who, in a lot of sense are artists, like giving them a platform to do what they do. That's kind of the same. And for me, just the different media.
Jeremy Lesniak:
If someone was too well, how about you if you were to describe you, in these varied interests, that I can see ways that they thread together personality wise. There's a lot of creativity. What if you were to find a way to describe all of these things that you are passionate about? How would you term it?
Osric Chau:
The thing that I like most about all of the things that I've ever done, was that it always comes back to the community. Right? If you’re doing the thing that you enjoy, and it's supported by a group of people that you enjoy doing it with, like, honestly, nothing else really matters. I love that collaboration. And you're not always going to get a good group but just the possibility of having that amazing group together, where you have that chance to make magic is like, that's what I'm in it for. Like with my martial arts group, like I love the people I trained with, like, We're best friends, we hung out every, every single day, all day, every day. Right? We just, that was our thing. Right.
And then with the restaurant groups, the same thing, like, we're all best friends. And if you're not, you're doing it wrong, because you're spending a lot of time together. So, it's just that collaboration of like, okay, like, I bring this aspect, you bring that aspect in our powers combined, it becomes a greater thing, right, and it's being able to navigate all of the different, like, there's so many like pieces, and you have to navigate all the egos all the politics and, and if you can get through all of that red tape, then again, you have the chance of creating something greater than the sum of its parts. And it's so cool when you succeed at that. And, you know, like, having done both film and restaurants, I understand why the vast majority of them fail. But at the same time, I like the challenge. I like the unknown, and I like being able to figure things out. And I mean, to some degree, I just have this weird determination to like, just want to bet on myself that I can figure it out.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Where did you get that from?
Osric Chau:
I don't know. Maybe, maybe just…
Jeremy Lesniak:
Just instilled that in you like you. You can do this. Can you figure this out?
Osric Chau:
No, I think it's just like being super stubborn. Like if someone tells me I can't do something like I have to prove it to them. Right? Like, for me motivation, like comes in that form of spite. I guess I'm like, if someone likes the reason why I'm vegetarian is because someone didn't think I could do it. They didn't think I could do it. And then I just did like, alright, I'll just do it till the end of production, which was like, a three month period and I did it. Like, I was so bad. I'll just keep going. And like, it wasn't even like that thoughtful of a move. It just changed my entire lifestyle because someone doubted me. That was it. It's kind of weird if I think about it, but…
Jeremy Lesniak:
I wonder if any of it comes for you from the same place? It comes? For me? We're both smaller people. Yeah, there's a little bit of a…
Osric Chau:
Yeah, I'm sure we have a chip on our shoulder shit. I think I especially like being an actor. Like when I started as an actor. Everyone's like, you have no one who takes me seriously. Everyone thought that it was like they're like, that doesn't exist for Asian men. Why? Why would you even try? Right?
Jeremy Lesniak:
And like were you trying to do that didn't exist. There.
Osric Chau:
Like when I started acting, there were no careers for Asian men, as actors. Like they're like, again, you can think Jackie Chan gently, you can think of the action stars. But like, no one in my immediate circle, my social circle, no one I met knew of any, like, could name you know, one, let alone five Asian male actors that had careers as an actor. Right? No one. Every single one of my family members liked it. I guess he moved to Asia, where the Asian roles are, which is why I moved to China. And, you know, to some degree, like I moved back, because I'm like, What am I doing here? Yes, I'm Chinese, but I don't fit. In China. Like it's a very different culture, my values are very different. The type of person that I am is very different. We consume very different media and the type of person that I want to be is not this. And so like moving back, it was like, I mean, moving there, I learned that it is my heritage, but it is not who I am. And so I think a big part of my motivation is like, well, I just have to prove people wrong.
Like, and I tell people this all the time, especially now that I'm like pitching stories and projects and stuff like people will tell like a lot of networks or executives have like Well, historically speaking, like that hasn't done very well or like in our studio that hasn't very done very well having this type of person lead that type of movie. And I keep saying, ``Look, I'm not interested in repeating history out of being someone that makes history”. Like that's it. Like I can go into all the numerous reasons why those didn't work out and I think a lot of it is because you will have two examples. And you really didn't put much money or effort into it, because he kind of wrote it off as soon as he jumped on it, but like, there's probably other reasons than this person. Like, it's a girl action movie, like, girls can lead action movies, if you do it right. The same way that guys can lead action movies if you do, right.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Right. When you look back, whenever that's going to be, you made a pretty bold statement there. You want to make history, you don't want to repeat it. What is making history look like?
Osric Chau:
I mean, for me, it just means I'm not afraid to be the first. Right? That's all it means. It doesn't mean that I'm gonna go out of my way to like, be the one to do all of these things. Like, I know, it doesn't matter. I could follow history too. But if my path is taking me somewhere that I'm like, Oh, I have to do this thing. And no one's done it before. It's dark and scary. Because it's unknown. Like, to me, it doesn't matter, then I'll make history, right? I'm not gonna go out of my way to make history, like, I'm gonna do what I'm going to do. But if it just so happens that no one's done it, then I'll be the first. Right? Like, that's all it means. Like, I don't have to, like I don't have an incessant need to be in the history books or anything. I really don't care. I just have goals and things that I want to accomplish. And sometimes those things have not happened yet. I think that's all that means. For me. That makes sense.
Jeremy Lesniak:
You mentioned that you've enjoyed being on the other side of the camera, and that you're pitching stuff. And you've done a bunch of things there as well. What kind of things are you working on behind the scenes? Anything that you can talk about?
Osric Chau:
Yeah, I mean, the restaurant stuff, right now, it's kind of all encompassing. But that makes sense. Yeah, I'm always writing and there's a couple of scripts and projects that I'm shopping around and developing and. And these things all take time, right? So, it's nice to be able to get a couple irons in the fire, and then just kind of focus on the things that you have to deal with at hand. And then sometimes a random thing will pop up, and I go, okay, I guess I'm doing that.
Jeremy Lesniak:
When you put these scripts together, are you also going to be in front of the camera? Do you envision yourself as playing one of the roles? How is that interesting, you know, when I talk to actors who also write frequently but not always.
Osric Chau:
I used to solely write for me to act in but I think having directed for the first time just this last year, I there is just a really nice kind of freedom of not being needed in front of the camera, there was like an incredible burden of responsibility on my shoulders, but I'm kind of okay with that. So I feel like, I don't I don't need to act. If I can create stories that I know mean something to me, then I think that's enough. However, like being able to act is just another you know, it's just another way for me to do it. But I can produce, I can write, I can direct, it really doesn't matter as long as you know, helping tell that story. So, yeah, I don't. I don't think I need to act like the descriptive writing now I'm, originally when I started, I had intentions to act in it. But now I don't want to act. I just strictly want direct. Because it's a story that I want to tell. It means something to me. And I would rather make sure that all the pieces lined up. And part of that is finding an actor that can do it. And knowing my community is growing is as strong as it is. I don't feel like I have to be that accurate because I'm going to be unable to find somebody to do what I need them to do. I have absolute faith that I'm gonna be able to find many people that can do what I can do. So unless it comes to a place where I go, I'm the only person that can be this wrong. Like that's probably the time.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Years ago, I think it was for season two of Into the Badlands. I had the chance to talk to Daniel Wu. And that was pretty much his experience. I'm not supposed to be in front of the camera on this one. And if I remember correctly, he described it as these screen tests. bunch of people. None of them working in the studio kept poking him like, “No, this needs to be you.” And he's like, “Fine, I'll do it”. And if you've seen that show, you know how amazing he did on that side of the camera as well.
Osric Chau:
Yeah. So I mean, sometimes it happens that way. But I don't feel it. Yeah, it's so specific. And Daniel, for so long, like you when I moved to China, he was like, he's a big name. Before, I think about when I started martial arts, and partly.
Jeremy Lesniak:
He's been doing it a long time. And he's awesome. Yeah, he's great. So, what's next, you know, you're feeding people, you're writing scripts, you're acting. I'm sure you're not bored. And I'm sure that if you saw a glimmer of light of what most people would call free time, you would fill it with something else. So, there's a lot there.
Osric Chau:
What I get, I think, for me, like having that freedom now, is important. So, for a lot of artists, certainly actors at the beginning, right, you, you take what you can get, right. And I've been fortunate enough that I've gotten some pretty cool jobs, and that I really enjoyed working with people that are, you know, really cool. And I think at this point, though, like I want to be more picky, I don't want to take everything that comes my way. I want to, you know, I want to dictate the stories that we tell, I want to really have a hand in creating the narratives that go out into the world that shape how people think, you know, so I think I see myself more behind the camera than in front of the camera, like, I don't need to be a public figure. I don't need to have my face everywhere. In fact, I would probably prefer the show. So I think having the restaurants if I, you know, we're still building up so many things. But if we can set it up right, then I don't have to worry about it so much. And then I can just focus on writing, then I'll just, you know, be locked away in a cabin somewhere and just write stories about my family. And then try to put them together, essentially. That's what I want to do.
Jeremy Lesniak:
One of my favorite questions that I will sometimes ask folks in the film industry, if you get this absolute dream nod from a from a studio, and they give you like a stupidly large budget, let's pretend it's there is no budget, it's that large. And this is the type of a list film where if you ask someone, they're going to say yes. What's the genre? What role in the film? Are you playing? Maybe what's it about? And who are you bringing in?
Osric Chau:
See, it depends on which hat I'm wearing. The directors have to be actors.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Any role?
Osric Chau:
I mean, as the actor. It's hard not to be based. And just jump into this superhero space. I mean, I wouldn't want Dickin, I would want to do something original. Just because I'll probably say sci fi because I don't want you on site. But I love making weird things. So, I would like to do something. Sidebar, I know that. If it's a big suit, the producer in me says like, “Okay, well, if it's that big, it's got to be action oriented because you can sell that in any market and you have to be able to recoup your budget, right?” And then you would say, “Okay, well then I have to do this big space action, you know, action”. So, essentially that is where my mind will go. You end up with Transformers for like, the director in me says like, “Okay, well I wanted like, I just want to do a movie for my parents. I want to do something that honors them”. That kind of picks apart our relationship are very complicated and, and dynamic relationship and and that is probably a five to $10 million movie at most. So, I guess we'll put it in space and then be $100 million. Yeah, I don't know. That's a tricky one. That's a tricky one. That's a good question.
Jeremy Lesniak:
What about other actors? Is there anybody that you hope you get to work with in some capacity?
Osric Chau:
There's an innumerable number of actors that are willing to work with. But I think, for me, I have jumped in behind the scenes like, now, for me, it's so dependent on the story, it is so dependent on the project, right. And I don't want to work with someone just for the sake of working with them. Like, it's got to make sense. Like, I don't want to act in a project just for the sake of it. If I don't fit into that character, or whatever, it doesn't make any sense. And I don't want to be there. And part of that is, you know, for an actor to find their own space within it, but it doesn't always make sense. And so it makes sense. It makes sense. And I think part of the fun of doing these projects that you get to do is that, oh, it makes sense for all of us to be together on this project. Right. And that's a weird science in itself. But there's a joy in being chosen by a girl, your knowledge, your knowledge to be part of this group. So, there's a lot of outside gratification coming in that makes me want to be on the other side of the camera to push.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Well, this has been awesome. Well, we'll wind down here. If people want to get a hold, even social media, anything like that you can share?
Osric Chau:
Yeah, I haven't been very active. Nothing in a restaurant is like the same process, and not the most glamorous, and it's not even I go, I want to take pictures of rubles to share. Yeah, I don't know. When you're building it up. It's like, we got to build a foundation by pouring concrete. Now we're like, putting tables together.
Jeremy Lesniak:
You know, what? I don't underestimate people's interest, and behind the scenes in the build up?
Osric Chau:
Fair enough. Fair enough. There's just so much happening. And most of the time, like, oh, man, I wear the same shirt for like five days in a row, because I'm just too tired. And I got to know, like, in an office, like, just going to the office and doing paperwork and like, paperwork is not sexy. I don't want to show people how to do QuickBooks because I barely understand.
Jeremy Lesniak:
And I'm laughing from understanding. Because I'm mocking you. I get it.
Osric Chau:
Yeah, I'm learning. I feel like I'm adulting for the first time. No, it's not. Not the most fun. Like, I appreciate what it's doing for me as a person.
Jeremy Lesniak:
We all want it as a kid. We're like, oh, I can't wait to grow up. And then we grow up. And we're like, oh, man, I just want to take a nap and have someone give me snacks.
Osric Chau:
I would love that again. Yeah, just be the basis for that. That's my life at home.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Final words, for the folks listening, what are you going to leave them with?
Osric Chau:
And I'm just tired now. It's like 70. Thank you for listening. Thank you for giving me a voice. And, and I appreciate all of you. Very simple.
Jeremy Lesniak:
There's a pretty good chance that you had a similar reaction to mine. In my conversation with Osric Chau. This is someone who I don't think accepts boundaries. With the limiting kind of just goes for what he wants. It's a powerful sentiment and one that I find incredibly motivating. We've talked to absolutely wonderful people on this show. And we continue to do so. And I don't expect that to change anytime soon. What I found different here, though, was the breath of things that he's involved in simultaneously. And that's something that we don't get too often. And it's something that I can appreciate because I think it's a way that I might describe myself. Lots of different stuff going on at the same time. I hope that you will check him out.
In all the various places you might still haven't talked about the things that he's done and I kind of want you to go look stuff up if you don't know him by name, because I think you'll be impressed. I certainly am. Osric, thanks for coming on the show and really had a good time. Really appreciate your generosity with your time and your openness. Saying all the great stuff you said.
If you want to go deeper, find links, photos, all that good stuff related to this episode, go to whistlekickmartialartsradio.com And if you're up for supporting us in the work that we do, you've got a lot of options you could leave a review, maybe buy a book on Amazon, or help out with our Patreon, patreon.com/whistle Kick. If you want to bring me to your school for a seminar I'd love to join you. Reach out and we'll find a way to make it happen. And remember, you've got the code PODCAST15 to save 15% off a shirt or some gear or anything else at whistlekick.com. You know we'd love to hear your guest suggestions. And our social media is @whistlekick, my email is Jeremy@whistlekick.com feel free to reach out. Until next time, train hard, smile and have a great day.