Episode 704 - Mr. Jeff Nosanov
Mr. Jeff Nosanov is a Martial Arts practitioner, author, and spent a long time working at NASA.
From the beginning I knew that the black belt felt so far away, I did not want it unless I absolutely earned it. Because I thought people got promoted to it just by showing up. I didn’t want that…
Mr. Jeff Nosanov - Episode 704
The connection between Martial arts and the film The Matrix is undeniable but for a teenager, it was a connection that’s life-changing. Mr. Jeff Nosanov, inspired by The Matrix, got out of his way and went into a dojo, and trained in Taekwondo. Aside from battling obesity, Mr. Jeff Nosanov used the tools he acquired from training to be able to achieve his ultimate dream of working at NASA. Yes, he’s that cool!
In this episode, Mr. Jeff Nosanov talks about how Martial Arts inspired him to get healthy and learn about fitness. Listen to learn more!
Show Notes
Check out Mr. Jeff Nosanov’s book How Things Work at NASA
Show Transcript
You can read the transcript below.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Hello, thanks for coming by. This is whistlekick Martial Arts Radio Episode 704. My guest today is Mr. Jeff Nosanov. I'm Jeremy Lesniak. I founded whistlekick. And I host this show, because I love traditional martial arts. It's really as simple as that. You want to see all the things that we do, because we all, because it's more than just me, love traditional martial arts, go to whistlekick.com It's the place to learn about all of our products, and our projects. And if you want to check out the products, and maybe pick one up, don't forget to use the code, PODCAST15 that'll get you 15% off, and help us connect on the back end that this show is supported financially, by those of you who love it. Everything for the show, it's on a separate website, whistlekickmartialartsradio.com, we release two brand new episodes each and every week. And the goal at whistlekick in the show and all the efforts. Well, we're working hard to connect, educate and entertain you with the traditional martial artists of the world.
You want to support that work, you have lots of ways you can help. Like I said earlier, you can make a purchase. But you could also follow us on social media, we're at whistlekick, or you might consider joining our Patreon, patreon.com/whistlekick, that's where you're gonna go for that you can jump in for as little as $2 a month, or $2 a month, we're going to tell you who's coming up next for guests. We're also gonna give you lots of behind the scenes stuff. At $5, you're getting bonus episodes that we don't release elsewhere. At $10. We're doing bonus videos, sometimes video episodes. Sometimes it's an exclusive video, but it's stuff you're not going to find off Patreon. I promise you that. And it goes all the way up. And at the top tiers, we've got a school owners mastermind that you can get on.
You can support whistlekick and write it off as a business expense. How cool is that? If you want the full list all the ways that you can help us go to whistlekick.com/family. Today's episode is with someone that is just open and honest and has great perspective and tells a story that likely resonates for many of you. It certainly did for me the idea of you know, I'm not gonna ruin it. I'm not gonna. I'm tempted to look at these intros. And I feel like I've got to talk for a certain amount of time. But I'm not going to, I guess I just did. But instead I'm just gonna say you know what, stick around. You'll like it. Promise. I'll see at the bottom, the outro. I call it the bottom. Anyway, hey, Jeff, welcome to whistlekick Martial Arts Radio.
Jeff Nosanov:
Thank you. Great to be here.
Jeremy Lesniak:
It's great to have you here. You know, we kind of in the pre show, we hinted at a couple things, you know, a tiny bit about your story. And it's one that was this element that I know, because everybody's story is pretty broad, right? There are some elements in there that we've heard before, but kind of feeling that, like every guest we bring on and where are you? You're over the 700 mark, we've done a few of these. Okay, it's going to be different, because it's always different. And that's my favorite thing about the show. So thanks for coming.
Jeff Nosanov:
Thank you. My pleasure.
Jeremy Lesniak:
When did you start training?
Jeff Nosanov:
Well, I started training about two weeks after the matrix came out.
Jeremy Lesniak:
And I want you to know that question elicited a bigger smile than almost ever has received. Really, it was just like a Cheshire Cat grin at that question.
Jeff Nosanov:
Yeah. When I think back to what really got me out of thinking about training and actually into a dojo, it was the matrix. And I was, I was 17 or 16. And it wasn't it, I can't remember. Anyway, I found the matrix. And like many people, I would imagine many teenagers, especially when he gets plugged into the computer and stands up and those come through. I'm not sure why that was such a powerful moment. It certainly was. I was a teenager, but I was intelligent enough to realize that's not how it works. But for some reason, I guess, with the benefit of hindsight, I can see that that was a moment of empowerment for the character and I think I needed to be ready for that kind of empowerment in my own life. And I happen to have taken the bus to get home from high school taking the bus, Santa Monica Boulevard in LA each and every day I go past this taekwondo school.
And there was a bus stop right in front of the taekwondo school. And one day, I just, instead of going straight home, I got off the bus and I walked into the segment. And I was about 350 pounds at the time. And I saw, I happen to be in a Blackbelt class. So I saw some moderately athletic kind of acrobatic stuff, you know, the spinning kicks and the fun stuff. And as a manager I like to be able to do that. And so I said, can I try class sometime? They looked at me and said, sure. And I guess it was the next day, or maybe it was that evening, I went back. And, that was it. That was the beginning. That was extremely difficult, because it was really, I was in very poor shape and had no flexibility. But it was empowering. And I think in retrospect, it was the first thing I did, as a teenager slash very young adult or getting closer to being a young adult, the first thing I did for myself on my own without being pushed into it, or encouraged by my parents, and so for that is sort of still has that deep, personal meaning that it was my thing.
Jeremy Lesniak:
And that was the thing that struck me when you talked about getting off the bus there. You know, forgive me for making an assumption. But the sense that I'm getting is that you weren't a terribly confident kid. I mean, most of us as teenagers don't have a lot of confidence once in a while you meet someone who does, but that's not the norm. And then, you know, you're drawing some connections between where you were at and where you wanted to be and the gap between. And of course, you end up stepping to that taekwondo school, when there's a black bottle class when theoretically the group that is farthest away from where you are showing up in that moment. And that wasn't enough to scare you off. And that's the part that's blowing my mind right now. Are all of those steps almost preordained?
Jeff Nosanov:
Well, it was scary. But I certainly, I guess, had the sort of wherewithal to not like to compare myself to them, but it did seem infinitely far away. I mean, that's for sure. And I think that's true of any fitness journey that's inspired by something you see outside yourself, you know, whether it's weightlifting, or sports, or just general mobility, weight loss, you know, the goal seems infinitely far away. Maybe that's like, by definition, if it wasn't infinitely far away, it wouldn't be the goal. You know, although there are some fitness YouTubers, there's one I really liked, who said, aim for halfway through your goal. And I think that's really interesting advice to give people starting out, because it's a little more achievable. But eventually, at least for me, I learned that there is no reaching the goal. It's life, you know? Yeah, the goal is to not die of something preventable. It's a great way to take care of yourself as long as you live. I mean, so. But that's me at 39. And, you know, having thought about it for a while, but of course, at the beginning, it was just like, wow, that's cool. I want to be able to do that.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Can you talk about those early experiences? You know, I don't want to be insensitive, but you, you call it out your own way. Right. And I have not had that experience. I have taught people with, you know, who have been overweight. And, I've watched them. Let's face it, struggle to do the same thing as someone who weighs. Yes, I would. And so, martial arts is already something that people struggle to continue with, right, they get there, and they have these visions of plugging into the matrix and going really well. And that's not a reality. You had an additional factor, not in your favor, at least physically.
Jeff Nosanov:
Right. Yeah. And I appreciate being sensitive to the topic, but I'm open about it, happy to talk about it, the whole journey. It certainly made it more difficult, but, you know, I didn't. The thing about starting a weight loss journey, in addition to any kind of concern is like you don't know. You don't know. It's your journey. It's the only journey you've got, you know. So like, in retrospect and of course, also, like, on your first day, you don't start jumping, sending back and stuff. You know, like, you're standing. I mean, even standing in horse stance, which, you know, if you do it right, as always, is always strenuous. But that was like for some reason, I remember that for being harder than the kicks and, and the punches and push ups and stuff because it was just like, you just until you've done that in your life, you're not used to putting your body in that position, you know, no matter what your starting fitness level is. And of course, that's the point. But yeah, it was really hard. And, but it was really rewarding. I mean, I was the guy who was like, you know, when you're when your uniform changes color because you sweated so much. Like it starts out as white. And I don't mean to be gross, like it starts out as white. But you sweated so much within 10 minutes that it's like gray.
Yeah, that was me. For years really. And until I lost the weight, like I was a disgustingly sweaty guy. And but for some reason. And I was like washing the uniform between every single class, like I mentioned, I had like five year old farms for five days a week. But at the time, I was not particularly aware of my own emotional states. And I was kind of like looking back at a movie I used to see when I think about how you must have been feeling like I must have found that it was really rewarding, even though it was extremely hard. And I couldn't see the progress. You know, when I think about the belt system, especially as it's done in taekwondo schools in America, which is, you know, kind of stereotypically not entirely merit based, you know, we can go into that. But having those belts to aim for, like, for my yellow belts, I remember this distinctly, I had to go to a different location in LA. And I had just started driving. And it was, I wouldn't say it was intimidating to have to drive to like downtown LA, but it was different. And I got there, like two hours early, you weren't even open yet.
And like, for me, it was a really, really big deal to be taking the yellow belt. And, I guess I was as it is as so many teenagers are. I was really, I really needed that external validation. You know, and, you know, I can certainly see now and as a parent whose kids have done karate for, you know, a few years before COVID, at least, like the yellow belt test is like, I don't say this to minimize anyone's practice anyone's ever, but it's like the minimum. It's basically what you're trying.
Jeremy Lesniak:
In a lot of schools, that's absolutely true. Yeah.
Jeff Nosanov:
And that's okay. And, you know, particularly for adults, it takes a very long time for your body, for your arms and legs, and hips and things to really start moving in the way that you ultimately want them to. And nobody has that yellow belt. But for me, it was continuing this thing I started on my own under my own sort of motivation, and getting the extra validation from this new world. And I remember that belt test almost more than any other one. And I took a lot of that because I stopped and started as I moved around the country, and I went to a lot of different schools. And so I probably took twice as many belt tests as the average person who did get up to first degree, because I go somewhere new. And I'd be like, well, this is what I was in my old place. Where do you think I should start? Because from the beginning, I knew that the blackout felt so far away, I did not want it until I had absolutely earned it. I saw people get promoted to it just for showing up. And it's just like, I don't want to like that. You know. And I think that comes from, I guess, self judgment when I started because I really had very low self confidence and was very critical of myself. So we'll get to that part of the story. And the story gets pretty crazy. If I may say so myself. We'll get there but I forgot the question I'm answering.
Jeremy Lesniak:
That's okay. And that is the question. Yeah.
Jeff Nosanov:
Yeah, but thinking back to that yellow belt. That was a big deal. Really?
Jeremy Lesniak:
Yeah. How did you feel on the other side of that yellow belt test?
Jeff Nosanov:
I was sure I failed, which is hilarious. Really, you know, nobody felt a yellow belt test. But I guess it's critical. I was at that point, you know, and I guess I, I guess because it was the first thing I ever did that I chose that I wasn't being told to read for school. I wasn't. I chose to enter that myself because I had very high standards for myself. Maybe even by default, because it was the first time I had put myself in that situation instead of being at school and having a test or, you know, what have you where it's someone else's structure, you know, that I was put into by third parties? I could have walked away at any time so that made me. I don't know, they gave me very high expectations of myself fairly or otherwise, probably unfairly. Really?
Jeremy Lesniak:
What were the people around you saying about your involvement in martial arts? Friends, family?
Jeff Nosanov:
Sure. I think that lab so they were all really supportive. I think everyone knew I had a weight problem. So people were really supportive of me trying to do something physical. And, you know, friends would come in and watch the class and I got a few people to try it also. And yeah, so people were supportive, but it wasn't really something anyone I knew, before I entered that world had any experience with so people were people were great. People were always supportive. My family were like, obviously, it had no idea what what you know, didn't know anything about it. But if I would say, Look, I'm going through, I'm going through uniforms, like, I don't know, like, I don't even have a metaphor. I'm like, can I get 20 bucks for you know, for my parents, but yeah, sure.
And I find to look, I'm going to taekwondo after school, I'll be home, you know, whatever, like, yeah, we're fine. Whatever. So I had my mom had enough trust in me that she would pay for it. And, I think as a parent now of a nine and eight year old, like, I can't imagine more, I can't imagine a better thing to hear from my child, that my children then I want to go and do martial arts on my own, like, what a wonderful thing that would be to hear. You know, because it does represent those, at least what I think are those values that I want in my children of hard work, commitment and initiative. Stuff like that. Now, you mentioned at the time, I horribly sprained my ankle. I tried to jump back kick way before I was ready, and, and I landed with my heel facing up. Oh, yeah. That's to work. No, doesn't know. But it's like, everything is edible. Everything on Earth is edible, at least one. So luckily, you know, I got the foot taken care of, and it was fine. But you know, then they did that. They were saying, Yeah, of course, go back. But don't do that again. I'm like, I figured that out. I'll give it a go. Yeah, everyone was supportive.
Jeremy Lesniak:
That's great. Now, you mentioned moving around the country? Yes. A few times. I was going to college. The first transition there.
Jeff Nosanov:
That was the first one and this is where the story really gets… I don't know. I hope it's motivational for you to have my attention. Okay. So yeah, I went to college, UC Irvine, so I was an hour away. And when I got there, I checked out the martial art programs at the gym at the school and they were okay. But it wasn't really what I was looking for. So I found a place where it was? It must have been Newport Beach. And I went there for most of college. And that was the first place where I, you know, stepped back a few belts. And that was fine. Because, you know, I wasn't like I said, I was I had patience, and I really wanted to, everywhere I went, I saw, I saw people physically functioning at a level I wanted to be at and I knew I wasn't there. So I said fine.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Was that roughly the same curriculum? The same style of Taekwondo
Jeff Nosanov:
Basically, yeah, it was basically the same form. And, you know, when I said, yeah, come and try class, we'll tell you what they'll think of your adventure. And that was the first time I learned well, you're doing the sidekick all wrong. You know, and, and when you see a real expert, do a sidekick, it's really a beautiful thing. I spent many years thinking about the mechanics of the various taekwondo kicks and like if you think about it, a roundhouse kick is like a whip. You know, a whip is made of multiple sections, and each section accelerates the following section. Ultimately, the tip of the web moves faster than the speed of sound, which is the sound of the crack of a whip, I mean, and the human leg is three sets the half you could maybe consider a fourth. And so I ran out get for example is it to me well as to get a rice cake is a really beautiful movement that uses the physics of each section, you know, and that you can hit, you know extremely hard with 1000s of pounds of force with your leg and I've spent many years thinking about that. And, this was well before I could actually do it, you know, because I was trying to understand how the black belts were doing it, you know, something that seemed impossible for my body to do. And, you know, a sidekick is almost like a properly chambered and extended sidekick.
It is a very unnatural notion. Because you kind of coil up like a spring and then you extend. And none of those, none of those, no part of that motion is something you do in your normal, everyday life. And so I distinctly remember being shown, this is how you do a psychic and I tried, I was like, oh, wow, I can't do this at all. No, you can imagine a half assed sidekick, where you don't have the chamber, you know, and where it kind of starts like a roundhouse kick, but then there's extends like a sidekick, I'm sure you've seen that. And then when you do a sidekick, and you really try to almost over exaggerate the chambering, it feels so I'm like doing it in my chair, you know, it involves the obliques and the hips, and he kind of coils up. I just remember that very distinctly. This was like 21 years ago, but I think wow, there's so much more to this. There's so much more to this than I saw or thought and that's kind of one of the things I love about it is every step forward, you take at least 10 more steps. 10 more details than that, you know, and the theme, I hope our conversation for me is like that, if that was so applicable to the rest of life.
For me, every step forward, you take, you see more that you don't know. And I really believe in the list in my case that directly influenced a lot of the choices I've made in my life and my ways, my career when and even for the multiple, you know, for the multiple multiple year periods where I didn't throw a single kicks, like I was still applying what I learned in the dojo, and then when I had my uniform and and that was also when I started having this this strange physical problem that I've only in the last like six months actually, I think identified which is I wish I would have this, this spasms in my upper back. And I could not get them resolved with chiropractic with medic with you know, medicine, modern medicine, and it was very, very frustrating for 20 years until very recently, after a kind of flexibility and mobility journey I've been on for the last year that I figured out it was my I think I figured I was minor that I believe because I have terrible scoliosis as a teenager then did only push ups for 10 years. I really, really just opened my window, let me know if there's noise. So long story, we can talk about it well, my flexibility journey is completely different.
You know, for years, I was the tall guy so I could get away with not being terribly flexible. Because I could then you know, I could kick over my head by bending backwards, which is not quite the way you want to do it. And nobody really called me out on it because I was looking pretty high. You know, I was the guy they demoed everything on because I could take a hit, you know, like the big guy. Well, at the time it was six three now I'm six two for some reason. I haven't figured that out but it wasn't my hair. You know, I did have hair. But I definitely was 6’3 and I'm definitely not anymore. I thought that happened when you're like 70 but who knows. But anyway, that was the first move and that school was my first experience moving to a taekwondo school. And I think I found that there's a comfort in going from high school to college and still having basically the same hobby or the same extracurricular activity, you know, that was separate from college, that was a completely different world. I didn't know anyone there, so I went to college with me. And, you know, I was exposed to different people teaching in a slightly different way. So that was great. It was kind of almost like, traveling enriches your life, you know, studying in different places enriches your life.
So that was college, and I don't remember what belt, I think I got up to red belt there. And then I moved to New York. I'm happy to tell the whole story of moving because it's really, I think, one of the most, one of the most interesting parts. And not because of me, but just because of the things I saw. So then I moved to New York after college, to be with my then girlfriend, who's now my wife. And long story, in a tiny apartment in Union Square for six months. So we moved to Queens, and I found that in another school in another taekwondo school on Queens Boulevard, out here, and that's where I long story. I live in New York now again, but I lived all over the place. Okay, but anyway, so go to that school. And that was probably my favorite place I've ever trained. incredibly supportive. Why? There were two instructors, Master Ray and Master Son. And they had this wonderful dynamic where one of them was very traditional Korean and was bad, like, near the top of the Korean domestic taekwondo institution. And Master Ray was just he had that perfect, that wonderful mixture sometimes of what I would call it east and west, although that seems so anachronistic to say old and old school and new and new instructional style. Like I found, maybe you found that too. I found that some people, for example, who have never who's never struggled with flexibility, cannot teach from a graph from zero. They cannot conceive that someone's hips don't move the way that they ultimately need to.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Well, you just do this. Right?
Jeff Nosanov:
Exactly.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Like why? Why can't you do this? Just try.
Jeff Nosanov:
Yeah, like, a lot of people who have never done push ups, if they start as an adult, it hurts their elbows. Right. And, and if you can't do a single push up, it's hard to get to two or three or 10, you know, and there's ways to get to one like with your knees down or whatever, you know, elevated. And so, Master Son was very much kicked over his head before he could walk probably. And so he struggled to teach. And I love the guy. And if he ever hears this, this is not a criticism. But I can see now that I had trouble learning from him, because of his level of mastery, physical mastery was so high that I couldn't relate to it. And then Master Ray, he could break things down. He had infinite patience. And he kept breaking down in a way that I could look up to them, you know, like, he could step so far down, that at my level, I could see myself getting somewhere, you know, and he also put me back to yellow belt again. So that was the second or the third time.
Jeremy Lesniak:
When you came out of LA came out of college with what were you ranked?
Jeff Nosanov:
Red.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Wow. Wow. Wow, a blow to your ego.
Jeff Nosanov:
Not at all, because I had no ego, I had very little self confidence at the time. And I said, Look, I said look, I don't And again, in these four years, I had seen dozens of people get a black belt for showing up. And I knew I didn't want that. I did not want that. I would rather be a yellow belt forever, then get that. And this was at the same school there was a guy named David who was in his 50s and he showed up in the having uniform on the uniform look a little different. And they gave him a new white belt. And you could tell it was a new white belt, you know, it was like perfectly smooth and all that but his uniform. It wasn't. And so that caught my eye and then after the first class, at the end of the class kind of chatting and like, you know, messing around and I noticed his movements were very sharp, that really crisp, you know, like snapping you know, when the uniform snaps. And I said yeah, so have you done it before? He said yeah, I applied. I lived in Korea in my 20s. And he said, but I've been an accountant for 30 years. So I'm starting over. And I remember that guy. I don't know what happened to him. But I remember thinking, wow, he's got a black belt in his closet somewhere. This is clearly his uniform from way back then. So he brought his uniform and got a new white belt. And I thought it was so interesting. And I still remember this, to see their muscle memory. Come back for this guy after who knows a lot.
Not as you know, sharp, but I could not see myself having done a lot of this stuff for 20 years. Like, if I were to go to a dojo now and start kicking the bag, the muscle memory would come back, I'd be sore as hell the next day, because I'm out of practice, right? But, somewhere those motions are in there somewhere. And I could get, you know, I could start training again. But so anyway, I remember this guy, remember thinking, wow, this guy says he's been he hasn't noticed in 30 years, but he's still got something. And that really struck me because for me, I was very interested in a long term fitness and health journey. And, in retrospect, that really set a great example for me that there's not only is this guy healthy enough in his 50s, or whatever, to keep doing this. And now as I'm almost 40, views don't seem terribly far away. And it's easy to think, well, of course, I can stay healthy in my 50s. But at that time, I was 20. So, it's like 50, seems a little older. And so anyway, back, back, I left a big impression on me, I don't think you ever knew that. There was also a guy there who was a cyclist and a dancer. And one day, he had that effortless, effortless sort of Anderson Silva type movement. I know what you mean, that's that. And he also got me into cycling, which for a long time before I had kids and could no longer be away from the house for six hours at a time. That was a big hobby of mine. And I hope to get back into it. But my kids are a little older. But I met a lot of great people there. But here's the story. Let me tell you one more example. And then I'll get to the really crazy part of the story that is really exciting.
Yeah. So at that place, they didn't teach you as a tornado kick until you're a blue belt. And so when I got my blue belt, it was the end of the test. I said, you know, they're like putting the table away, and you know, cleaning up and I said, So semester break. Can you teach me the blue belt? Blue belts can teach [00:32:47-00:32:47]. And he looked at me. And there was still the test that had literally just ended. I was like, I don't want to wait till Monday. And he said, of course. So we go to the corner. And he started talking about it well, and that really stood out to me because it wasn't about the formality or the or the testing or, you know, I just wanted to learn. And he didn't say no, we'll wait till Monday class on Monday, you know? Without a second thought I said, yeah, let's do it now. And, that's the kind of teacher that I want to be in everything. Whatever opportunity I have to teach anything. It's about the, you know, if a student is interested in reading any classroom is anywhere class time is anytime, you know. And so that really left an impact on me. And of course, that was just the beginning of many years of falling over while doing a tornado.
But I guess through all of those changes in my life, all that time in my life it was just having these little incremental goals in taekwondo really, really were valuable for me. Okay, so here's, so here's where the story gets. Not. So this is the school and in Queens. The third school. Yeah. So my girlfriend then and I, now my wife, we would go almost every day.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Oh, she was training too.
Jeff Nosanov:
Yeah, she came with me.
Jeremy Lesniak:
You convinced her to do that or into it?
Jeff Nosanov:
Yeah. And I think it was eventually I was going like, almost every night and then eventually I said look, just come with me and check it out. And so we were going almost every night and one night, Friday night we got there we had a normal class. Saturday morning we got there. Something's different. This is like 14 hours later, maybe all the pictures on the walls are gone. All the little knick knacks like the little flower pot, you know, the random stuff you don't notice until it's missing out of the office of the lobby and stuff on the wall. It's all gone. And someone we don't know is in the office taking stuff out of a box, like, oh, who's that? Where's Master Ray and and you know, the junior instructors and stuff. And they say, we're the new owners. And I'm like, oh, who are you? What happened? We were here like 14 hours ago? And they said, yeah, they didn't tell you. I'm not going to name the new owners, because you'll see why. But the reason I haven't named any of the squirrels, and given you the relatively common names of Ray and Son. And it turns out that overnight, the ownership of the school has been taken over by this, this taekwondo school group that has like 20 locations. And finally, the new instructor shows up and my girlfriend and I and the other students, we literally corner him, we say what happens? Where are our people?
You know, and he says, I don't know, they just told me to come here and teach today, because it was a new location. And what we later heard was that there was a hostile takeover of sorts, where the instructors that we knew and their their owner, you know, the owner of the school was basically like, pushed out by this corporate, the taekwondo school group, and basically taken over for reasons we didn't get the book to the bottom up to the point where our master basically, the weather nearly was a, there was a nearly a fight in an office between two competing school masters school honors, like in a kung fu movie. Yeah. And we didn't believe that at first. But the abruptness with which the transition happened, and the total lack of transparency to either the new staff, you know, it's not their fault. They thought it was just a new location, like, you know, but when you show up, and all the pictures of all the kids you've known for two years are gone. It's like a little bit of warning would have smoothed this off, smooth this out a bit. Totally. And they're like, oh, yeah, we're gonna take over your contract. So you're gonna start paying off now? And it's like, really? Is that what we're gonna do? And we were very protective of the old management. And, we stayed there, because we stood there for a while, because it was still the best location for us. And we just wanted to give them a chance. But the new place was very interesting. The old management encouraged everyone to go to tournaments in the Northeast. Generally, the new management only held their own tournaments for their school group. Which I see you grinning, which I found fairly cult like.
And, I remember thinking, Oh, so this is now my fourth, the fourth management, the fourth school management I've worked with in the third physical location. And none of these other people realize there's a world outside of this school group. And that's the way they want it. And that was really disillusioning and frustrating for me. Because for me, Taekwondo was about this new world that I got to explore physically inside of myself and around the country. And it was very constricting now, my girlfriend, because it was still the only physical place where she had done taekwondo . She sounded more tolerable than me. And she stayed there. And she eventually started to help out and like, she loved the stretches for little kids and stuff like that. And, but for me, I just really, really, really didn't like it. And so what I did, after a while, I got up to red belt again. And I just really didn't like it. I just really didn't like it, and I couldn't, I just couldn't stay there. So here's what I did. So I called the Old Master, Master Ray. And I said, did you talk to him prior? A little bit, a little bit. Once when they disappeared, it was clear they were not to go to this location anymore. And I said to him, I really would like to keep studying, keep practicing with you. I don't know if that's possible. But at the time, I knew I was moving out of New York. This was what it was like, late 2007. I knew I was leaving New York in June of 2008. Or August of 2008. I said, I want to train with you. Where are you training these days? And it turns out, he was training at the boxing gym, in Queens.
Kind of near, not near LaGuardia Exactly. But like in Flushing and Flushing, Queens. And so he said, come on, buy some time. And so, at the time, I was in school, and I had Tuesdays and Thursdays, I had class all day, Monday, Wednesday, Friday, I was in law school. And, like 10 hours a day on those three days, and then I had no school Tuesday and Thursday, which is great. Because I lived in Queens, I had less commuting and all that. But I had all day and Tuesday and Thursday off, basically. So I said, okay, I'll come out on Tuesday, it was an hour bike ride to the gym. And of course, I was there. So I wanted to work out as long as I could. And then it was an hour bike ride home. So it was very physically challenging in a good way. And after a couple of times, I said, you know, I'm really enjoying this. I've been training for like, nine, eight or nine years now. I would like to get a black belt from you. If and only if you think I've earned it. And we don't have to talk about it ever again. But I'm moving out. I'm moving in June. If you think I've earned it from them, I'd love to get it from you. And if not, I don't want it. And we never talked about it again. And a few weeks before I left, he said go to this address, your black belt was waiting for you. And so I went and picked it up. And that was how and that was sort of my Bucknell story. And that means most so I don't have a formal cookie one certificate or you know, the official. But after what I've seen, I wouldn't have it any other way.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Talk about talk about that training, right? Because I think most of us who have been around for awhile, we find instructors that we resonate with people that really mean something to us. And for a lot of us, we get the opportunity to remain training with that person or those people for a long time. But more often than not, something serves that relationship, whether it starts to stop training, one one party moves, whatever. But there's something kind of special in what you're talking about, in that you're able to see the contrast the same physical location, mostly the same people you're training with different management instructors, same more or less curriculum, it sounds like what you saw the contrast of him there versus him not there. Yeah. And coupled with you knew you were leaving, you had a finite amount of time with this man that you really valued. What was it like, training with him, because I'm assuming it was one on one.
Jeff Nosanov:
It was one on one and you know, your friends would show up. And it was a boxing gym. So it was if you go boxing and people lifting weights, and it was great, there was no heat and no hot water. It was more like an auto parts store or an auto shop rather. And it was very well equipped. And sometimes we would just, we would just punch the bag. And sometimes we would do, I don't know 500 hook kicks or something. And sometimes he would lift weights with his friends and I was young enough that I could lift weights with poor form without injuring myself. I wouldn't do that. If a bunch of guys I know are lifting heavy. I would either not do it or just lift the normal way that I left and not try to keep up with them because I'm 39 years old. But I will basically just follow his lead. And there was actually one time this Greco Roman wrestling guy came and I don't know if you've ever experienced that. But when he showed me the under hook, hold or whatever. I don't know what I don't even know what it's a whole bit under hook. I never felt so much physical strength around me in my life. That man could have ripped my arms out of their sockets like Chewbacca losing the holographic chest.
Jeremy Lesniak:
We've been on this show and I love it.
Jeff Nosanov:
I will do my best. Like, and this all of this leads up to my career with NASA, like this is all directly getting there. So the space reference is entirely like in character. But so I got all this random exposure. One day I really pushed myself too hard but there was this couple who showed up to let me finish the story about the wrestler guy. It was like a statue was alive. I did not know a human being was capable of that. It was so inspirational. And the guy was like a really intense guy, but obviously not going to kill me. I'd never done it before, but he could have it with an eyebrow. You know, I had never had I knew that the ancient Romans wrestled naked in the mud, you know, whatever. But to really to literally be an expert, Greg Grieco rustling holes was a mind boggling experience. I was like, I cannot move. If this guy wants to, I am effing dead. It was incredibly powerful. And I'm so glad I had that experience, because I just didn't. It's like, it was like, it was like 10 years earlier, when I saw the black belts for the first time from the bus stop, like, wow, I didn't know people, the human body was capable of this. I thought this was a legend.
I thought this was a myth. But anyway, that was cool. The day I pushed it too hard, there was a couple who was there. And so that they were doing cap words that have taekwondo. And if you ever don't have to worry, you know, it's like doing squats for like an hour straight. And so at the end of that I get on my bike. And I can't pedal but I'm like, Okay, this is interesting, I got an hour bike ride, it's like 25 degrees out, I can't move my legs. So I sat there for a half an hour, and I was able to hobble home, but, but again, wonderful to see that in person to see that, that beautiful art in person and physically experienced that, you know, and when there's nothing quite like when you when you're so when you're so directly faced with the limitations of your own body, in a safe environment, or at least a safe ish environment. So that was, again, those things stand out to me, because I don't know, it's just very, it's just so different than everyday life, you know, when you're going through school and jobs and careers. And like, there's a deeper world, which is the one way to explore that is with martial arts.
Jeremy Lesniak:
So what's coming across to me is, you know, if we were to really simplify this story, for you, it's valuing knowledge. It's valuable information that you so greatly gravitated towards someone who encouraged branching out. And your stories, I asked you to talk about that training with him. You said a few words about training with him, and shifted into talking about the things he exposed you to the other people, right. And you know that's not a judgment, you and I are very alike in this way, to see more and to realize how much more there is and that you're never going to get all of it. And then, you know, you foreshadowed a bit talking about NASA, I'm assuming there's no one at NASA that doesn't value knowledge.
Jeff Nosanov:
I also assumed that
Jeremy Lesniak:
Okay, so maybe my assumption is wrong, but perhaps better stated as a general trend, that the people involved in this organization.
Jeff Nosanov:
Yes, it's hard, but not impossible to get a job at NASA without a deep passion for not for learning. And I see that we're almost at... I'm going to keep talking to you as long as you'll have me because of this.
Jeremy Lesniak:
I want to hear how all this stuff relates to NASA.
Jeff Nosanov:
Sure, sure. I don't know that I've ever gone through it in this much detail. So it's really cathartic for me to tell the story. So, okay, I'm moving out of New York, I have my black belt. And I'm almost afraid to wear it. I'm like for me if it means so much more just to have it in my drawer or like it means so much more off of my body in my mind, then whatever means you know, around my waist. So then my wife, my girlfriend and I got married and we moved to Lincoln, Nebraska where I have. So, I went to law school in New York. And my formal training is actually as a space lawyer. It's weird.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Yeah. So, I would have assumed that was post SpaceForce. That wasn't a job, no space.
Jeff Nosanov:
Now, people have heard of the Space Law, sorta, but at the time, it was like, remember, it was 2008, the economy was collapsing. My choice was to get a job in the most devastated industry of all. Real Estate, wow, okay. Well, I was gonna say law, but because the law firms were basically all the entry level law jobs were decimated, because the top of the head was cut off. And everyone, you know, moved up, was kind of like the Soviet Union collapsing where everyone was, grasping for whatever was trying to loot whatever they could find. And not leaving a lot of room for entry. But anyway, so. So we moved to Lincoln, Nebraska, where I was going to do the space law program. And so when we got settled in, we went looking for martial arts school. Now, this was where things got really interesting. I mean, maybe this whole thing is interesting. I hope so. But martial arts in the Midwest was such a different world. I don't know if you've ever been or experienced, but lacking, this is going to be somewhat generalized, because that's okay.
That's all I got. But lacking the direct Korean, this is just my observation that is direct in places where you didn't have first generation Korean immigrants starting school. Do you have these weird things? Like American, like, you have places where people have American flag, Gis instead of the simple plain white Gi which always represented in an old fashioned way, to me to be a form of humility, and like, you have these like, bright colored, sometimes literally American flag printed uniforms, and you have just, what I found is it was much more about fighting than about, it was much more about competing with others, and then improving yourself. If I could summarize it, and that's, I'm sure that's not true everywhere. But there were a few places we went. There was one place we went that actually wasn't like that. We were only there for nine months. So we didn't actually sign up anywhere. But we tried a bunch of different places. But there was one place that taught the staff that I really liked, but I wasn't going to. It didn't work with my schedule. I had classes at night. But I had never experienced that on the coasts and that sort of hyper nationalistic co-option is not the right word, that super kind of hyper nationalistic merge, the merging of hyper nationalism with taekwondo was very strange to me.
Jeremy Lesniak:
It reminds me of the way football culture is in the Midwest. I didn't go up there. But you know, I've had conversations with people who talk about football being the pastime. At any level, you know, people coming out in droves to high school and junior high football games, where you know, here in the northeast, that's not a thing that generally happens.
Jeff Nosanov:
Yeah, that's as good an analogy as any, but combining that with the completely combining that with the I don't know how to say it. I want to use the word foreign. But that doesn't sound right. You know, you go into a martial art school, you go into martial arts school, and you've got a Korean flag on the wall.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Right, like, comment if it's, you know…
Jeff Nosanov:
Jeremy, sparse the core. I'm going to call that Eastern, because I just don't have any other word for it.
Jeremy Lesniak:
And that's I suspect far more people relating to what you're talking about. Realize, so just don't don't sweat that shirt.
Jeff Nosanov:
I'm just trying to paint a picture of what I saw in the hyper American version. That to me, so much of so much of what I valued about taekwondo was it's a different culture. And when I walked into a place that tried to apply American culture to it, it was very jarring for me. And it really was what didn't work for me. And I saw them encouraging aggression in children, not confidence and confidence. But I had previously seen four other places. Aggression was not the point. Confidence and discipline and self improvement was the point those things were still there. But they had a layer of aggression that I really, really did not like. So I didn't really formally train there. I just started weightlifting in Nebraska, because there's nothing else to do in the winter. But, I didn't train in martial arts there. So then we moved to LA, I started working at a national center and my wife started medical school. And we ended up at a wonderful taekwondo school in Pasadena. And I did a group on I had a group on for like, 20 lessons of capoeira, which is really interesting. Not enough to keep up and wear your rubber. But I started, I did it once a week actually, it took that long, I really feel like I could even work out again.
Jeremy Lesniak:
For me when I started a couple it was my cat. Yeah.
Jeff Nosanov:
My cats couldn't even identify the different muscles that by that at the end, it was just like one frozen block of meat. So that place in LA that the tech house was where my wife brought her black pot while she took her black blood test while pregnant with our son. Wow. Yeah, so that was cool. And, you know, when he was born? Oh, so that was the place I trained, actually, with a black belt on. And, you know, having shown up there already having a black belt was a really interesting experience. And, and I really I tried to, you know, no matter how I feel, I know, I know what it feels like to walk into a place and look at someone with a black belt, you know, so I tried to use that as a way of being a leader, or a teacher or an example. You know, I really tried to embody that. And I hope I did. And when our son was born, we really stopped training extensively. And then we moved to DC in 2014 for my wife's residency program. And it didn't train there when and then we had another baby, our daughter in 2014, they started doing karate. My son started when he was three, this was in Bethesda, Maryland. And he, so he would, you would do the very, you know, little kid class and my daughter would sit there and watch and when my daughter turned to this was great. She walked up to the instructor, she said, I do karate. And, and the instructor said, No, you have to, you can't start till you're three. And she said, I do karate. And that went on for a few weeks because he said, fine, go. She said, if you can listen, and you can do what the other kids are doing, you can start.
Jeremy Lesniak:
So she did and went okay. Yeah, yeah, that's gonna happen.
Jeff Nosanov:
And so they both did it until COVID. Until COVID hit, and then we moved up here to New York for my wife's fellowship program. And, you know, through all of that, all those years, you know, I talk about I talk about, oh, so let me before I kind of draw this all together, like so in 2014, I had to leave the NASA center because my wife's residency training program was in DC. So when you finish medical school, you have unlimited input into where you end up with for your next step of training. And if you don't go there, you don't think you're done. That's it, you know, so you gotta go. So that's a very long story itself, but basically, it was a huge blow to me. If it was the I was very depressed, it was very hard for me, it was extremely hard. And then I started two companies, and then in 2019, the government shut down to ruin them. There was another big setback and then we moved on, we moved up here and then COVID. And, but the point of all that is, is that I have been used to struggling and failing in martial arts for 20 years. And I really believe that that experience really helped me. That's What I mean by using martial arts every day, even if I don't kick something, I really believe that that gave me the mental resilience to get up and figure out the next step.
Like I just tend to remember for years struggling to do a tornado kick. So, I used to tear up like the skin, a lot of my feet used to get really torn up from trying to pivot, you know, on a tornado kick, after several years, and I couldn't pivot fast enough, and so I wasn't getting the rotation. So I wasn't, you know, it was just very clunky, it looked like a, you know, a drunken robot, like trying to do it. And it felt like it too. And then one day, I was watching someone doing it. And I realize they're not actually maintaining contact with the ground the whole time, that during that 10th of a second pivot, they're not actually sliding, they're just barely leaving the ground on that planted foot. Or maybe there's just the contact with the ball of their foot. And then before they do the jump heart, that's when they have just the slightest moment, momentary full contact with the foot that lets them push off.
And that was it. And then I did it, then I did a proper tornado kick for the first time. And I don't know why. I don't I honestly don't know why I don't know where the all consuming desire to get this stuff right came from, but it was there. And I really believe it's transferred over to other parts of my life, you know, I have these random moments of these random memories of like, finally figuring something out, like, like, the first time I did a hook kick. And I felt oh, that's how I can see now how other people can chain a hook kick in with other moves and like, keep moving. You know? So, somehow that experience in math really helped me with things outside of my training and, you know, major life challenges and transitions and stuff like that.
Jeremy Lesniak:
It makes sense. And it's something that I think a lot of people are likely nodding along with, you know, it's a common experience to to perseverance, right, you know, one of the five tenets of Taekwondo
Jeff Nosanov:
And on perseverance, you know, throughout all this time, I kept having those spasms. And I really, I still struggled with flexibility during COVID. You know, I never really kept looking for a solution to those things. And I kept trying different stretching programs. And during COVID I finally bit the bullet and bought something I kept getting Facebook ads for called, I'm going to pick I'm going to plug them because they're really that valuable to me there. I want to make sure I plug them properly. It's the 21 day hip challenge from yoga, yoga, you know them.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Okay, I've seen that ad come through. Sure. Okay, yeah.
Jeff Nosanov:
I finally did it. And it is absolutely life changing. For the first time in my life, I actually started developing more flexibility and range and range of motion. The reason is that it has you hold these poses for five minutes straight. And what I found after the first couple of weeks of awkwardness and, you know, soreness, the entire previous 20 years of my life when I was stretching for 30 seconds or even a minute, was almost completely useless. It took two minutes, two full minutes before I even started to actually stretch. I thought I was stretching all those years. I wasn't actually stretching the muscle. Maybe I was getting the connective tissue to relax. But I wasn't actually stretching the muscle. And I've been doing these programs from that yoga body 21 day stretch and some other stuff for a year now. I recently started doing the hip, the head, this one session for hamstring stuff. And at 39 years old, I am more flexible than I've ever been. That's awesome. And I'm applying to I've been applying that to the to the tech minor stretch.
Jeremy Lesniak:
I have something similar on the other side.
Jeff Nosanov:
Okay, holding it for five minutes, which is excruciating. But I'm breathing deeper, I'm feeling better, I don't have that tension in my back. And I realized that we've been sitting at a computer for 20 years and doing push ups. For the first time, even though I started lifting weights and, you know, worked out the back also, like, no wonder, like, I had never stretched this in my entire life. And I never gave up on stretching. And I didn't get anywhere for many years. But I kept trying new things. And now I do this stuff for like, an hour a day while I'm in meetings, or like reading or watching TV or something. And it is absolutely life changing. And I think I'll be able to touch my toes with straight legs by the time I'm 40.
Jeremy Lesniak:
That's wonderful. And again, it's that this recurring theme of your willingness to remain open. And just just keep trying, you know, yeah, you're if I did my math, right, your black belt was 10 years.
Jeff Nosanov:
Yeah, something like that. Right?
Jeremy Lesniak:
Like, a lot of people aren't going to handle getting pushed back, okay, red belt to yell about, right? Like, they're not going to deal well with that. But you kept going, your priorities were slightly different. It wasn't about rank, it was about wanting to develop and be better. And, and I refer to that as a white belt mentality, you know, this idea that there is so much more infinitely more ahead of you to learn than you've already learned. And it's there. I think a lot of good things happen.
Jeff Nosanov:
And I would just, I'll never forget the moment I got my black belt, and I realized, oh, my God, there's so much I don't know. And, yeah, kind of like I felt like I didn't know that before. But the first time I put it on, I was like, Oh, I don't deserve this. How do I end up with this? I know that I was sure I worked really hard for many years. But oh, I left, that's something that you'll appreciate. So, this was a few years after I got my black belt in 2010. We went on our honeymoon. I don't remember if it was either a honeymoon or was I going to say I went to Southeast Asia twice, once for my honeymoon, visiting my sister in law, who was living there and the second time for her wedding in India. And one of those two times we were in Thailand for a week at this time. I guess it was a resort. And one day, I was like, I'm gonna go walk up this mountain and see what's up there. And it was like a tourist. It wasn't super touristy. But there were like rock climbing groups over here. And you know, people on the beach and like, it was beautiful. It was wonderful. But I'm like, I feel like walking up this mountain. And I get to the top of this mountain in like two hours.
And I see this rickety boxing ring. And this guy comes out. And it turns out, it's a multiagent. Yeah, and I'm like, I'm standing at the top of a mountain. I'm already exhausted. But this is the Thai gym. I know this guy doesn't speak English. And so I kind of go like this. And I'm like, with a smile on my face. I'm trying to convey can we like, can you show me something like, I'm here? I did. You know, he wasn't expecting me. I wasn't expecting that. And so, you know, he brings out a pad and we kind of communicate with gestures and smiles. And you know, he's got his very basic training equipment. I mean, I'm lucky they are heavy with the stick, you know, but, but. And the boxing ring is like a real sprained ankle, ankle spraining magnet, because there's like boards, I remember this distinctly. The boards are not. There's gaps between the boards. And I'm like, I have big feet and my feet are gonna get if I'm not careful, we're gonna get stuck in here and twisted. This guy's feet are much smaller.
So I don't know why that stands out. It was rustic. I'll put it that way. That's a good word. And yeah, and so we spend about an hour and like, of course, I'm thinking this guy is so much more legit than I am. I'm just an American who's trained in an air conditioned gym for, you know, for a while. This guy's probably been doing this on a mountain with spikes on his fist. And he's got ropes around his hand. But you know. And so I think Taekwondo and we don't really speak English. We don't speak the same language at all, but he recognized the word taekwondo. And so I show him some stuff and I don't know, he's probably humoring me. From my own humility. I have to believe you are humoring me because this guy, for all I know, is like a cage fighter in Thailand, right? But, I'm thinking like, I'm never going to have this opportunity again, or at least not like this. And if I do, I'm going to be a lot older.
So I gotta try it now. So we just kind of go back and forth. And he shows me he shows me that in the so this is I'm glad I learned this because I thought in in Muay Thai, when you need somebody, I thought you're moving your knee up, apparently or not, your knee remains stationary and you're moving your whole body and you actually strike with the top of your knee, I thought it was at the bottom. So not that I had any intention of hitting somebody with a boy timey. But it was cool to be shown in Thailand on a mountaintop without any English. And then I remember thinking, man, someday I want to have the I want to go to Japan and Korea, I want to do karate in a waterfall under a waterfall, you know, these kinds of, maybe they're stereotypical in a way. But I want to have these authentic experiences.
Jeremy Lesniak:
You know, because of movies, who actually gets to do these things like that's awesome.
Jeff Nosanov:
There was actually a, there was a great TV show back in those days where those two guys would actually travel the world and do this, this African one was called, he was in like the heyday of it was before YouTube, but it was like the heyday of a kind of traveling documentary time. And these two guys would go to Japan and train karate in the mountains and stuff like that, and all over the place. So I was like, I want to do that. But anyway, so getting back to today, like, I haven't done my stretches yet today. But I'm going to get a nanometer closer to touching my toes. And I haven't trained taekwondo much in the last seven or eight years since my kids were born, I guess, almost 10 years now.
But COVID is opening up, we're moving again. In August, my wife finally began her training. And I always wanted to train taekwondo or karate or something with my kids, when they're getting bigger. And they're big enough to be training with them with me, not just like when they're little kids with a little clap, you know. And it's looking like, by the time we get somewhere we can get settled and find out, I will be over 40 years old, but more flexible, and I've ever been, and I'll be ready to hopefully have that special time with them. And hopefully, to some a little bit of what it's meant to me. And that's sort of my journey today. And I'm still gonna go off at the end.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Now, in hindsight, if you go back, you know, obviously, the genesis of the desire being the matrix and plugging in neo and all that, you know, I'm sure.
Jeff Nosanov:
If they hadn't ruined the first movie with all the crappy sequels, but yeah.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Have you seen the fourth one?
Jeff Nosanov:
Yes, it's terrible.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Ah, see, I completely disagree. I think it is really, almost as good as the first. I think it's funny.
Jeff Nosanov:
We may need to have another session.
Jeremy Lesniak:
We might, we might, I will spend an hour not to tell you why you're wrong.
Jeff Nosanov:
I'm curious. Let's schedule it, but don't go on.
Jeremy Lesniak:
But I'm still struck by this very clear, persistent, word that keeps coming up from a path that you've walked in your training. And as you've woven in and out, you know, and right now, you're kind of woven out of training, but you're still training, you're still applying, right? Like it's not, you know, you're not done. And all of that resting on what you presented it in still sounds like it was just short of a whim.
Jeff Nosanov:
Well, I think that at the time, I really, okay, so like, if I was looking at a teenager now doing the things I did, I think what I would observe is this person needs something to own for themselves that they chose. As a teenager, I felt like I was getting told what to do. Like everyone does. I was, you know, didn't have a lot of choice in what classes I took or like, I didn't. I have some really good friends but like, I really have no confidence with girls like I didn't have I didn't have anything that was mine. I feel like and I think I don't think I would call it a whim. It was more like martial arts was exposed to me at the exact right time. I needed something for myself. And I think that's where the emotional connection came from and continues even though at the time I couldn't have recognized the emotional components because I was a, you know, teenager, but even just going through all this for the last hour, like, that's the through line. And I still, you know, when I stretch now, or when I work out now it's like, that's me, that's my time. You know, that's not unique to martial arts, plenty of people, fitness activities or their time but, but for me, it connects deeply to the whole to the whole story.
You know, if I want to travel more eventually and some, if I ever get the chance to do karate under a waterfall in Japan, I want to be ready physically to do it, you know, I don't want to have to wonder, Am I gonna get hurt? I don't want to have to wonder, you know, so to say nothing of just generally being healthy and strong and you know, able to deal with what life throws at me. But yeah, it's this, when you have something inside yourself that, you know, no one can take away. No, no external factors can stop you from doing, you can just redirect it. Like, I'm not trying, I'm not a member of a dojo right now. But I still stretch at home and I and for me, it's all connected, you know, you need that internal, I think it's very valuable to have that internal motivation that you apply by going to the gym or you go to the dojo or you take a belt test or whatever. But it has to come from within, you know, at the risk of sounding cliche. And I'm very grateful for having had those experiences and opportunities that allow me to, to keep, keep growing, you know?
Jeremy Lesniak:
Glad you've been willing to come on and share it now. You also have a book that, yeah, it was in December this.
Jeff Nosanov:
Yeah, so part of, so I wrote a book about my 10 years with NASA. Okay, and I really had no, I don't self publish. I wrote it because I want to share what I've learned. I had a very unusual career, starting with a space lawyer and doing a bunch of stuff we haven't even talked about. How things work at NASA, and how things work at NASA everyday secrets of space exploration. And I'll send you the link later, please try to tell the story of this large institution that really has been central to world history in a lot of ways that people don't realize, for the last six years, and this is a very important part of my life. And, actually, there's a great connection here. Like, I spent 10 years working for NASA literally exploring the universe. And COVID hit and, around the time COVID head, what I realized was I had spent 10 years searching the universe, and I found myself. I work from home, my wife in her training is still working 100 hours a week, I do most of the childcare. But after all those years searching the universe, like I'm very, I'm content right now. And COVID You know, everyone's had such a different response to COVID and I'm very lucky that I haven't physically been affected by it. You know, my wife is surrounded by people that COVID for two years, none of us have gotten sick. But I really did find myself after this whole journey. And I'm content.
Jeremy Lesniak:
If I may venture some of that content and fitness content. Being content is rooted in what you learned in your training.
Jeff Nosanov:
Yeah, it is. It is and I think having that experience of setting goals reaching them physical self care, it's helped them COVID actually because I know that to a degree I can prepare myself physically for what's out there. keep myself healthy and have confidence to evaluate the you know the world and and take care of myself and my family.
Jeremy Lesniak:
So, where you said the book is self published, where can people get it?
Jeff Nosanov:
They go to the Amazon, it's on Amazon, you can go to the title of How Things Work at NASA. So HWCAN.com. Sorry, howthingsworkatnasa.com. We appear to be down right now, maybe we edit this out.
Jeremy Lesniak:
But we just make sure that the right links are in the shot. So just make sure you get us what we know. And I would also imagine that if someone went to Amazon and just punched in most of those words in roughly that order.
Jeff Nosanov:
Actually, it's just howthingsworkatnasa.com all the full words. Okay.
Jeremy Lesniak:
How things like howthingsworkatnasa.com, got it?
Jeff Nosanov:
Yeah, yeah, I'll try that to you right here. And, yeah, it's my story about my experience within NASA. And it's an unusual experience. Because again, I started as a regulatory compliance kind of legal person, and ended up doing a lot of program management and, and actual research. And, I changed roles all the time. And really, I think, because I'd had so many different transitions in my life. It was martial arts and otherwise, that really helped me with the constantly changing opportunities. I had an unhealthy switch, kind of switch as I had the chance to. So that's my story. And, I hope it's been interesting. motivates people to try. Try new things, whether it's martial arts or not.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Well, of course, yeah, we'll get that link in the show notes and everything. And I appreciate you being here. today. So we're gonna wind down and what final words do you have for the folks listening today?
Jeff Nosanov:
I think I would just say, you know, if something is if you're curious about something, just go try it. Even if you're woefully unprepared, just like, you know, don't don't be, don't be constrained by the formalities of things. Like I just walked into that school and said, Can I try it? I didn't ask if there was a trial class. I said, Can I try it? Let them tell you, you want to learn how to sail, go to us, go to a marina and say, we found the first person with a bone stick? Will you teach me how to sail? You know, forget the four, forget the modern formal boundaries of things. You know, all that's made up, you may have to deal with it, but it's still made up.
Go find someone at the park during tai chi or whatever, and say, can you show me they might say no, they might say go to this school. But you know that all these things are boundaries in our in, in our heads that? Sure they're real, and you got to deal with them. But starting without them mentally is a great way to go. Whether it's martial arts or sailing or archery or whatever. You know, it's so motivating to have something inside yourself that you can, that can survive any of the changes that life throws at you. At least that's what I've learned.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Jeff, I want to thank you for coming on. What a fun story. The idea to me that it was so important to him to earn it. That's what stuck with me the most in this episode. It was so important that he deserved what he had. That's not a sentiment that we often see. When we do see it, it seems to come in hindsight. So the foresight even at a younger age to have that. That standard is really what I'm taking away from this the most and I think says a lot about him and his character. So Jeff, thanks for coming on. Thanks for being you. Really appreciate our time.
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