Episode 764 - Prof Jesse Dwire
Professor Jesse Dwire is a Martial Arts Practitioner and instructor at Dragon Phoenix Martial Arts in Massachusetts.
There’s no such thing as an advanced technique, just an advanced practitioner. That has been one of the hardest things a lot of my friends will ever understand.
Professor Jesse Dwire - Episode 764
Martial Arts with the family is always a good idea. In the case of Professor Jesse Dwire, he started martial arts training at the age of 12 as his father trained with him. By the time Professor Dwire was 19, he also began teaching Martial Arts. Presently, Professor Dwire teaches at Dragon-Phoenix Martial Arts.
In this episode, Professor Jesse Dwire shares his journey to martial arts, his love for Kempo, and the importance of tradition. Listen to learn more!
Show notes
You may check out Professor Jesse Dwire’s school information at Dragonphoenixmartialarts.com
Show Transcript
You can read the transcript below.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Hey there, what's going on, party people? Welcome. This is whistlekick martial arts radio. It's episode 764. And my guest today is Professor Jesse Dwire. I'm Jeremy Lesniak, I'm your host here for the show and the founder of whistlekick. And everything we do at whistlekick is in support of traditional martial arts. We're here to connect, educate, and entertain all of you with our various projects, and our products. And if you go to whistlekick.com, you're going to find all of it, it's all there, every single bit of it is there, you can buy it there, or it's linked from there. So go check out whistlekick.com. If you're not doing that, periodically, you're missing out. Suppose you want to go deeper on this or any other episode with our show notes in your podcast app. But the full extent of those notes is only available at whistlekickmartialartsradio.com, there are some things that just don't work in podcast notes. So check that out. If you liked this episode, go check that out. And while you're over there, you could sign up for our newsletter, which we send out once in a while, sometimes weekly, sometimes less. It's full of good stuff that's going on in our industry, and in our company. And hey, we bring you two episodes each and every week. Hopefully, you enjoy them, and you appreciate them. And if you want to show that appreciation, you could buy something from us maybe leave a review on whatever platform you listen to this podcast on Apple, Spotify doesn't really matter. You might also consider supporting our Patreon, patreon.com/whistlekick starts at $2 and goes up from there at $5 a month, go check out what we offer you for $5 a month, it's kind of insane, tons of value. And that's why people don't stop contributing to Patreon we get you and we keep you because we throw so much value your way. And speaking of value, if you find a lot of value in the things that we do, if you consider yourself part of the whistlekick family, please check out the family page whistlekick.com/family, you're gonna have to type it in, we put that little bit of a hurdle up for you to make sure only to people who truly love what we do, we'll put in the time because apparently, two seconds is too long for some people. And what are you going to find over there, it's the entire list of all the things you can do to help us out. But we also put some stuff in there that you're not going to find anywhere else. And behind the scenes, some bonus, some things for me personally. And it's a free sort of Patreon. So go check that out. Today's episode is a wonderful conversation with a man that I respect very much. I know much better now after speaking with him. But going into this, I had tremendous respect. Not because I knew him well, but because people that I do know very well have tremendous respect for him. In this episode, we talk about everything from how when, and why he got started, we talk about circles that were completed some throwbacks, and we talk about progress within the martial arts within his school within what he teaches, and why it's not always something that people find appropriate. So hang on, enjoy this episode, and I'll see you in the outro, alright, hey, Jessie, welcome to whistlekick martial arts radio.
Professor Jesse Dwire:
Well, thank you so much for having me. I appreciate it.
Jeremy Lesniak:
We've been waiting. When did I start bugging you to do this? Three years? Five? Yeah, it's been a few years, right?
Professor Jesse Dwire:
It's been a few. It's been a few.
Jeremy Lesniak:
That's okay.
Professor Jesse Dwire:
And I apologize for the time kids in life.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Life happens. I don't think you have anything you need to apologize for.
Professor Jesse Dwire:
I'm really excited. Happy to be on it today. So it's my second Zoom meeting of the day.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Oh, well, hopefully, this one's more fun. Whatever, whatever. The first one was.
Professor Jesse Dwire:
No, that was a really great business meeting. Okay, I belong to a really awesome business group. And they help me, they've helped me through COVID. They helped me get back on my feet before COVID too.
Jeremy Lesniak:
So that's great. Well, we'll probably not talk about those things. We'll talk about you. We're gonna talk about yours is interesting, because it's not always a subject people are comfortable with. Because if they were right like I wouldn't, I would just say hey, send talk for an hour and then send it over and we'll make an episode out of it. But because of that, I have a role to play here. And I like kicking it off in a really easy, boring, and even expected way. As you get started, what was your martial arts origin story?
Professor Jesse Dwire:
Honestly, it's always my father and I always did karate. We always worked out. He always showed me a few moves. He had done martial arts as a kid he was in the military. I never really got deep into it but just boxing, some grabs, just different. We don't come through the theater all the time. Every Sunday after WWF we'd be watching kung fu theater together. He traveled a ton. So once I was getting a little older, he's like you still love martial arts. And I love it. And that's when a karate school opened up right down the street from my grandmother's house where I spent a lot of time because my parents were always traveling. And that was, my instructor that I still have today, Professor Duncan. So we've been 30.
Jeremy Lesniak:
So how old are you?
Professor Jesse Dwire:
But I was 12.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Okay.
Professor Jesse Dwire:
So I was 12 and that was just that was it. I walked in that door with my Ben and Jerry's tied I t-shirt. sweatbands.
Jeremy Lesniak:
And I'm gonna give you a ton of love for that. The factories over there.
Professor Jesse Dwire:
Right, I walked in with that. And I can tell he looked at me like, and then here we are now with my kids calling them Grandpa almost 35 years later.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Age 12 isn't a common thing, right? I mean, you see that probably see that now some schools have a strong adolescent, teen demographic, most schools don't seem to and we're almost the same age. So I remember. It was not generally cool to be in martial arts. Back then. Was that were you a rarity at this school?
Professor Jesse Dwire:
Yes. I think I was a couple of my friends in the neighborhood started it. I think they got the yellow belt or orange belt. But I just I was a kid that ran around with a ninja outfit in the gullies. I was black belt magazine order in the back of the magazine, my ninja costumes and stuff. Yes. So I think my forever
Jeremy Lesniak:
Throwing stars if you have any of those?
Professor Jesse Dwire:
Tons of them. the blow guns. So I just always was into it. But at age 12, there was that gap. And I went right into the adult class then. So it was there weren't the younger ones were too young. And I was definitely in the middle.
Jeremy Lesniak:
So if you started at 12, and you'd been doing this for a while 12 is old enough to have an expectation of things. Was it what you expected?
Professor Jesse Dwire:
Yes. it was really Professor Duncan who had a way of just teaching that made you laugh. And then his knowledge was in. It was so multifaceted because he started when he was eight. And so it was all the same thing and all the different styles that he did if you were watching Kung Fu, he could do Kung Fu. So we were doing karate, we're doing the cool takedowns and of course, I was in the adult class. So I had to be older. And I had like, always, I always liked being with the older group. I worked better with the older group, but it really was. Let's just say at age 14, I named my karate school. And the only person that knew the name of my karate school was Professor Duncan at age 14.
Jeremy Lesniak:
So 2 years in and you know, this is your thing, this is what you're going to do.
Professor Jesse Dwire:
I told my parents, this is what I was going to do. And they laughed at me. And I said, No, seriously, I'm going to be a karate instructor, and like, that's fine. You're going to college first. When your business fails, you got a degree to fall back on. They were realists. And that was it. I went to college and Agra University and started my first official school in the nooks, the Niagara University karate club, at age 18. And I had 50 students by age 18, which ran for four years. I graduated with three black belts. And that program continued for about six, or eight years after I had graduated.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Oh, that's super cool.
Professor Jesse Dwire:
It was awesome. I am still in contact with a lot of that my first male and female black belts are from that dojo.
Jeremy Lesniak:
That's great. So you graduated at 22 and moved back.
Professor Jesse Dwire:
I graduated was on 2021 or 2022. I got home and was gonna open up a karate school. But I was like I want to do massage therapy. Also, that was kind of a thing back in the late 90s, and early 90s.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Where did that come in? How does that come into play?
Professor Jesse Dwire:
Somebody had said to me once I was doing I was in college doing something. I was a social worker. That was one I might agree with what's been so I was always looking for different methods to help people not just physically but mentally. And I got into a lot of obviously the Eastern arts and things like that. And I, someone said to me once that anyone can kill somebody, but they can't always heal somebody, but anybody that can heal, somebody can definitely hurt somebody. And so I was like, well, that's a really different way of looking at it right? And I wanted to be able to heal somebody, and I wanted to be able to help them and I had my own bones manipulated and massaged at the end of some hard training. I was like, oh, man, I don't think I'm gonna be able to walk after that. And so I got into that and I got into an amazing school. So I was gonna do massage, you know, of course at 21 You're like, I'll beat him up there. I'll beat him up and they gotta come back to get healed. Later, I tried to open up a school in Syracuse with personnel at a mall when I was 21. And we were 50/50 partners, except he was the boss. So that didn't work.
Jeremy Lesniak:
It never works well does it?
Professor Jesse Dwire:
No, and then I got the one massage school, and I'll probably and I think it was 22. And I saw online, of course, you're looking at the Internet and there was looking for instructors up here in New England. And just it was a massive self-defense center at the time. We were affiliated with them, and I just called them out of the blue. And they're like, yeah, we are, what are you looking to teach? I'm like, I'm looking for something. And I just drove up here and we drove around, I ended up taking over a location of some people that were leaving. I was 22 or 23. I was 23 by then. So I moved here when I was 23. I didn't know anybody. I didn't have family, friends, or anything out here. I just wanted to teach karate. I moved out here and did it. It was awesome.
Jeremy Lesniak:
What did your parents think of that move?
Professor Jesse Dwire:
They loved me to move to do stuff. Okay. I think out of all of my friends, I thought I was gonna be the one who was gonna stay in Syracuse all everyone was gonna move away and I was gonna stay there. I traveled a lot when I was younger. And I really enjoyed Syracuse. And then I moved here and I realized how much nicer it is here. And, there's sun here, and there's no sun [0:11:26-0:11:27]. And they were really good. I don't think they thought I was gonna stay here either, though. A year and a half after being here. I met my future wife. So it was kind of putting down revisit that in stone, right? My father was raised or which kind of brings us back to that karate story. He passed when I was young, like 25 to 26, I'd say I think it was 26. And as I was going through his personal belongings, I found something as we're going through his little knickknacks. He let me backtrack a little bit.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Sure.
Professor Jesse Dwire:
In 1999, and 2000s is when I was first introduced to Grandmaster George Bizzarri, we had brought him out to Syracuse, and I started training with him. He's obviously the first person ever to bring our style of Kempo to the East Coast. And I started training with him a lot. And so that just to set the stone for there. When my father passed, I found a business card. And in that, in his little trinket, his business card was senior Grandmaster Georgia Bizzarri, third-degree Black Belt. My parents my father was originally from this area. So the stuff that he had taught me one of his favorite moves was the beginning of one kata, the quick kick, and then the jet lacrosse punch. And we always worked moved, my father and I in so the relationship when I went to Grand Master Bizzarri and said, Here's my car. This was sitting in my dad's Bureau, and half a and I Grandmaster Bizzarri, And I had like, a really profound moment. It was great. But like, it was good so I realized that my roots were been in Kempo since the beginning.
Jeremy Lesniak:
You were Kempo before you knew what Kempo was.
Professor Jesse Dwire:
I was Kempo before, I think my father didn't realize he was Kempo.
Jeremy Lesniak:
So cool.
Professor Jesse Dwire:
Because definitely, so that's that, I moved here and opened up a master of self-defense center at the time. And that lasted a few years. And we had differences. I had really great training underneath them. We just had some differences in how I wanted to move forwards and how we could do it. And we parted ways so John came from Dragon Phoenix Martial Arts.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Was it like, overnight that you did that? Was there a gap?
Professor Jesse Dwire:
No, gap? No. That's I think they took a fancy but I had a plan but I did. I've had my name plan since I was 14. But I didn't plan on not being with that organization. At the time, I actually thought we were going to work it out. And then again, we just couldn't come to negotiations. And professionality an amazing teacher he was and we just couldn't.
Jeremy Lesniak:
I don't want to pick that subject more than you're willing to. Are you willing to at least, what was the general area of disconnect? Was it training? Were its finances? Were once.
Professor Jesse Dwire:
When you're starting a family? I'd have to say there were finances. Okay. It was 100% finance again, there was I did a lot for the organization. I felt I did a lot for the organization. But I also felt they did a lot for me because I put in that extra time and effort. So I don't take away anything that they gave me either. But when it came to the financial part, I think I was just getting engaged or I was about to propose to my wife at the time and I couldn't I wanted to renegotiate our original terms because my school have gotten much better. we had proceeded and it just wasn't gonna happen. And I understood that and I hope they understand it now.
Jeremy Lesniak:
It’s interesting how money ends up being such, that can be a divisive issue. If you look around you've certainly been around long enough that you've heard stories all over the place, It's a thing that when you get excited, I mean, we didn't talk much about the school where you were 50/50 I can only imagine that money played a role in that too.
Professor Jesse Dwire:
That never even got off the floor that literally got my stuff in the door that heavy bags in there. And then he basically acted like he was the boss. And you sent him out and I realized the very second that happened. It just wasn't gonna roll. He was an Aikido master. So he was gonna have a Keto one night. And I was going to do my Kempo on the other side on the other nights. But he was and he made it very clear that he was in charge. So I didn't even step. We never even I never got a single student in the door on that one.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Bummer.
Professor Jesse Dwire:
But maybe No, probably for the best. They all got thrown out a couple of years later anyway.
Jeremy Lesniak:
I do want to just point out before we move on, that anytime somebody gets into a partnership, whether it's professional or even romantic, it's really easy to just kind of say, You know what, that will be fine. It'll be fine. We don't need to unpack this now. And yet, statistically, business partnerships work out, don't work out. The divorce rate is well over 50% and usually doesn't work out. But how much more likely would it be? If we saw those things and said, you know, let's figure out a plan now. You know, it sounds like from what you're saying there could have been a way forward. If there was some kind of mutually beneficial way. How do we end up that we both stand or fall together? Those are in my opinion, then it's the heart of a good business relationship.
Professor Jesse Dwire:
I agree. I think it's difficult to order. At one time, I had a second school. An amazing teacher, and he's still an amazing teacher and school owner. And we had a business proposition, he started doing phenomenally. I didn't want to fall into the same traps that I was with my other organization. So he came to me and he says, This isn't working. I need this. I said I think that's a great idea you can have that you're doing all this hard work. The next year, the same thing happened, he was still doing even better. He says this doesn't financially work for me. I said you're absolutely right, you deserve more. And then, we did a handshake agreement. And I never went back on anything we'd ever agreed upon, in fact, and I gave him more, as we went through instead of being greedy about it, because that was, I'm sure he wanted the same thing. You wanted to start a family at some point in time. And, now he's doing really great and successful. And I'm happy for him, we broke ways after he bought the school off me, which was part of our negotiations, he had his own mindset, and I have mine, and I told him, You need to go and do your thing. And only did it and it's been great for him. But I made sure we separated that one, right
Jeremy Lesniak:
But I want to talk about that for a second because there's the financial arrangement there. But there's also a student-teacher relationship there. You know, we're so used to as, as people as not, separate from martial arts, we reach a certain age and we go off on our own, generally, right? And if you knew anything about the history of humanity, you know that there are traditions in every culture about becoming an adult. And yet.
Professor Jesse Dwire:
Changing the m and the n and Kempo. When it's when each generation leads to their teacher, they change the letter.
Jeremy Lesniak:
I don't know. I don't think I'll offend you with this. I don't think I know of a more useless argument in the world of martial arts. And whether Kempo has an M or an N? Because correct me if I'm wrong that is not a term that started in English. That's a term that started with a whole different alphabet with sounds that aren't exactly like what we do in English. Am I right?
Professor Jesse Dwire:
Okay, you are correct. All right.
Jeremy Lesniak:
So we're talking about the term that I understand is called transliteration. And arguing over a transliteration. Just seems silly.
Professor Jesse Dwire:
When I joke all the time, saying if I could just if I knew how to people knew how to pronounce it, it would just be ke question mark po had cracked glass about it all the time. When I say it, I'm like, and I'll take it when I type to him or something. I'll say I just type in the question mark in the middle just for fun.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Right. Now, to be clear, I understand that there are lineages where it becomes a distinguishing factor, it is Kempo here. And then this branch is Kenpo. And this branch is Kempo. And so it can have some relevance. But I've seen people who really get wrapped around the axle on whether it's an M or an N.
Professor Jesse Dwire:
When they really get wrapped up on who's right, and I've talked to some really brilliant people on it. I think I find it fascinating, I'll stick to what I believe or and I always have the can with the M was assault the can with the end was the hard can, that was one way of, familiarizing or getting them differentiated from each other. But then if you look down the lineage line, it literally is like, each person just left their teacher and switch the letter. It was as simple as that.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Like, so many things. It's okay, I want to do it this way. Now, I need to come up with a reason. Reverse engineering in there. So let's, let's go back. So no, not, whether it's Kempo or Kenpo. That's, but it sounds like it. And maybe, Thai makes it a little bit clearer. But it sounds like as your students running your second location, progressed as not only a school owner, but a martial artist, there was a mutual recognition, maybe not desire, but at least recognize that it was time for him to go off on his own. It is time for him to fend for himself to learn the lessons of standing or falling on his own, which you also did that Professor Duncan permitted you to have, that so many of us have had as an opportunity. And yet, in the world of martial arts, that is the point that probably of higher ranks, creates the most problems this desire to say no, you are, you are my student, you remember, you are mine. This possession almost, or
Professor Jesse Dwire:
Your hand like that made it and I wish I could remember it was that Parker Jr. or Master Chun Jr. When they explained to me that like if you want to foster somebody, you keep your hand open, and all the sand will stay in your hand. If you tighten that grip on it and tighten your grip around the people, the sands, it starts leaking out around your knuckles in your fist. And that just always made sense to me as I'll try to hold you up as best I can. I'm not going to put that grip on it. And Professor Duncan's shirt, he always said you're not gonna have Duncan's martial arts, you do your own thing. Don't be like me.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Because you can be.
Professor Jesse Dwire:
No
Jeremy Lesniak:
better than him at being him. You can be
Professor Jesse Dwire:
No way
Jeremy Lesniak:
you and crush it. But you've got to be you
Professor Jesse Dwire:
Got be me. Absolutely. And it's not easy. it's an ego thing. And it but it what's the whole point of view? You're kind of contradicting yourself, and you sit there and say you're developing students to become these like, to become the best they can be as long as they're underneath me, right? But it's garbage. If I don't I'd rather see them sitting next to me, at the same table with me not in somewhat, that's, makes no sense to me. Never has, I always that's people have to go and follow their dreams and do their thing. Even if it goes against what no one else thinks you should do or anything like that.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Right? We've had a recurring theme on the show over the last few months, this notion that what I believe an instructor of anything, their primary goal should be that their students surpass them.
Professor Jesse Dwire:
Correct.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Because if their students don't surpass them, they are less than them. And if you carry that out, martial arts just gets really bad. Like it gets worse if that's the path you take. But the other way, martial arts continue to progress to evolve. And I think on the surface, everyone would say that they want that, but not everyone, as you said, their ego can permit them to support that.
Professor Jesse Dwire:
A continuous theme in my dojo is I say to them, as I'm explaining it to my students, I'll sit there and say, this isn't how I did it. When I learned it your age, right? And I said to my people, the point is, I've got 35 years of experience now. So think about this, what I'm teaching you now to be 35 years to learn, then you're learning it in your second year, or you're learning it in your third year. And it is impossible, for you not to be better than me 30 years from now, right? Impossible. If doing tradition for tradition's sake is foolish. Our traditions are there. They're a part of our history, but just to do it, like I'm wearing a shirt right now, that's from our a big shirt. It's the fall seven rise, eight type thing. It's part of our whole career, part of charism Kempo in our family lineage line, it's been on it and it's part of our go, boom. And that's something we thought, well, it's fall down, get back up. Have that Dragon Spirit, have your Phoenix spirit, get up.
Jeremy Lesniak:
One of the things I've had happen in my own personal martial arts journey a couple of times, and I'm guessing that this has occurred for you, and that's why I bring it up, I want to talk about it for you. I've had circumstances where I have co-taught things to my instructors, things that I brought in from other training are things that I figured out, or questions that ended up with them saying, I hadn't thought of that. Tell me more about what you're thinking. And it's a really telling dynamic that an instructor is willing to learn from a student. Have you had that? Have you talked with Professor Duncan and have your students taught you?
Professor Jesse Dwire:
Always. The one thing we said was, try to get through black belt, get the black belt with what we're doing, get that down, you got your basics, and then you go out, Professor Duncan used to pay for me 18 and 19 to 17 years of age, to go to seminars. He'd be like, I'm going out of town. I need to go, I need to know what this seminar is about. You're gonna go you're gonna come back and show me what you did. Absolutely, I always bounce stuff off of him. And he's bouncing stuff off of me and asking me questions. So 100, and I do the same thing with my people. If I have, if I have a wrestler coming into the dojo, well, I'm not teaching wrestling that day. I don't care how well they're teaching wrestling that day, and they're gonna show me more things. You know, it's absolutely I always try to find that thing that other people can bring to benefit our whole school. That's not me, that lets them because they are part of the school.
Jeremy Lesniak:
It doesn't have to be this one wide dynamic of knowledge falling. Knowledge defies graph. Knowledge is space, it's the energy and it fills right, wherever you permit the openings to be it, will flow.
Professor Jesse Dwire:
Right? I love it.
Jeremy Lesniak:
All right. What do you love most about teaching?
Professor Jesse Dwire:
What do I love most about teaching?
Jeremy Lesniak:
I didn't think that was gonna be a hard one.
Professor Jesse Dwire:
If I were to, and go, I love to show. I love getting people to the same love and enjoyment as I have for I love when I can make somebody look at what we're doing or what I'm teaching. And their smile shoot across their face. And they see the joy that I'm giving off, they absorb that joy, they're having the fun and the joy in it. They own that from the adult perspective of it. But kids to adults, I love when I can see a line when you see the confidence drop, jump up, right like I love when all sudden they're there, then I can see the ideas, and I love seeing people realize there's so much more that they can do that they realize, then they realize, that's a big one for me.
Having those kids especially right now. Just getting the kids to talk or even like play tag, sometimes it's so used to not touching for the last couple of years, that it's they don't even know how to wrestle, I'm getting so many different things, but just to have that interaction again, and seeing the pure, energetic joy and then having no clue what to do and then bounce into each other because you don't know spatial awareness anymore. Right? So it's, I love all of it. It's been the joy of watching these kids just improve themselves as teaching. Teaching kids non-athletes sometimes becomes, teaching your future athletes now,
Jeremy Lesniak:
I find that for instructors that work with kids, especially as long as you have there are a few that really stick out over the years somebody that came in in a certain way and maybe they're still teacher training. Maybe they left after a few years but they made a really strong impression on you and you probably have a bunch of those I'm just the smile on your face tells me that you might be willing to share one there's somebody you might be thinking of.
Professor Jesse Dwire:
But I always had you know there was always want this. Yes. I've gotten many what it is? It's great though because I've had you know my school we have 3/6-degree black belts to fifth-degree black belts. I have the parents of the kids who came in 23 years ago, and 24 years ago who started with their kids. The kids are all off from college have jobs and have their own kids now and those parents are still with me and the same age, they were when they started. And I've learned so much from them, and they're still in there. Every one of them's in there once or twice a week in their 60s, in their 50s. So they and it's hard because they're there.
But I had this one kid, his name was Max. And he was just the superstar and everyone always knows I talk about Max a lot. ended up becoming vice president of a really big company in Boston, he won a Dubai award for an invention that helps with ADD ADHD. But he was super great. He was an 11-year-old who adults respected 12-year old that adults would listen to because he talked very similar to the way I would talk to the adults or the kids. He just had a mannerism and he's just gone on to have some unbelievable success. I wish he had stayed longer, but at the same time, I'm glad he didn't, because he wouldn't have memories now, right? So he made it up really hard and fast. And he worked hard. He was one of those 11-year-old, 10-year-old kids who were doing the 10 hours a week kind of training.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Cool.
Professor Jesse Dwire:
I've got one of those right now his name's Isaac, and he's off to college. But he was doing the same thing. 10 and 11 remind me a lot of Max doing the 10 to 11 hours a week at young ages, just because he wanted to be there and loved it.
Jeremy Lesniak:
And so that was you.
Professor Jesse Dwire:
I was 20 hours a week and by age 14 to 20.
Jeremy Lesniak:
How did you have time for 20? Were you cutting school? We've actually heard from people who cut school to go train, but I don't think that was.
Professor Jesse Dwire:
We're our classes, were from four to nine. Okay, and I would get off the bus, jumped on my bike, I'd ride down, have my key in my hand, and get there before the professors sometimes I don't lock the door. And at nine o'clock, my parents come to pick me up and that was Monday through Thursday. And then I had a real job on Saturday and Sunday at a restaurant.
Jeremy Lesniak:
When did you do your homework?
Professor Jesse Dwire:
Wasn't the best scholar. My parents knew where I was. I will say and I tell my students all the time I detested high school and middle school and elementary school. I wasn't a rule follower. Because I had so many responsibilities put on me at a young age that I didn't understand having to have a hallway pass to go to the bathroom. I struggled with those things at a young age when I'm home alone, for a couple of days a month at a younger age because my parents worked so much, right? But I made it to my job every day. I never missed school. And I had to have a bathroom pass. So I did not have an awesome but I got lucky I got into college and I did excel in college because that was on me. The responsibility was 100% on my go to class, don't go to class show up. Don't show up. pay me the money. I graduated with honors. So I mean, it was a much different world.
Jeremy Lesniak:
How much do you think what you learned in school about being a social worker applies to what you do now?
Professor Jesse Dwire:
Every interview I have right now I talk about my social work degree. So every time a new student comes in with the parents of the students, we talked about a couple of different things, you know, self-defense, physical fitness, and mental awareness. The icons and the I can- attitude that I also thought about my social work and how we are we're trying to uplift, we know we've got to lift the spirits. It's a correct, we're gonna correct you, we're gonna make sure we praise you, it's not just gonna be correct, correct, correct and there's gotta be some praising and we got to find where their value is and what they're great at, and not compare him to anybody else. So that was not always the way because Professor Duncan always allow me to have other teachers. And that was very uncommon, because all the teachers that he allowed me to have, would in turn, within a few years, four to five years turn around and say, you're no longer allowed to train with Professor Duncan. And I would laugh, I give a nice handshake. And I tell you, I appreciate all your time. And I go back because I never went into an agreement with an instructor without them knowing that I had permission from Professor Duncan. And they always said, that's great. I think that's awesome. And then it would change a few years later.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Why is that so common? I have my theories, but I want to hear from you.
Professor Jesse Dwire:
One was straight to the point. And I did appreciate that it was a hard pill to swallow. Master Chun Jr. was very straight to the point about he was never rude. He loves Professor Duncan. But he is very straight to the point and teaches ever he says, What if you're going to learn my way and you want to survive and live through the face teaching it my way? You can't have any misconceptions by doing it a different way. And then halfway in the heat of the moment, your body, and your mind flip flop. And I liked how he stated that I was like, I can take that. It's not who I am, who I am right? But I could accept that there were a lot of things that he had always thought about him and I was very close for a while. He talked on the phone all the time. He went to all of his seminars. He was at my school quite a few times. He had a huge influence in the power buildup and the history of martial arts farming but he had at least a point over the other people just in light of being second or equal to somebody So you can have to and you cannot have two master instructors. It just didn't. I didn't. So I always have the professor and he's always been my life coach, my martial arts coach, my social worker.
Jeremy Lesniak:
How do you handle that for your students? Are you encouraging to say, No, you're like you mentioned I think you said three, you have three six times? So you must be if they're still with you in training. You're probably kicking them out from time to go over there. Do that like go, do something to do this. Go see that person.
Professor Jesse Dwire:
One of my instructors to the fifth degree goes and does Taichi every week. A few other guys, don't look down there. They're older now. They are in their late 50s or early 60s. 67 is one of them. No, they're not training elsewhere right now. They're happy and they're moving their bones. You know, coming in, they're having fun again, trying to get back to what they can't not, you know, in that episode 100%. I want my black belts. I want all my students I want them in the martial arts symposium, used to go to the Saratoga festival where I met some great instructors there. I want them to go and explore that's why I bring in people all the time. I'm always bringing in a guest instructor probably twice a year, with different arts, different styles, and different mentalities. Some I love some don't come back, it is what it is. But no, they Campbell's the mud system. So we got to make sure that we keep that fresh.
Jeremy Lesniak:
It's so funny that you say it that way. To me, every martial arts system is. It's an amalgamation. If you want to call it mud and call it mud. Somebody somewhere along the line said, Okay, I'm choosing these things, and excluding these things.
Professor Jesse Dwire:
I'm doing it right now.
Jeremy Lesniak:
And then the idea actually, I've heard some tell about this. And then if anything, when anybody says this is how it has to be, and they try and they take, what, to me, it's a very natural and organic process. I like this, I don't like this, this works for me, this doesn't work for me, I want to teach this, I don't want to teach that. And then they put a very rigid line around it, they put it in a box and say it cannot be changed. It seems so contradictory to me.
Professor Jesse Dwire:
Well, before the internet, they used to tell us that the combinations in our system can never be changed. Because those were the direct movements that were taught directly from the temple. And you can never change the combinations.
Jeremy Lesniak:
This is the 108.
Professor Jesse Dwire:
Yes, yeah, that was a story that was passed on to us pre-internet. Kempos, we can manipulate the open hand thing, but the combinations, are set in stone. And except for.
Jeremy Lesniak:
It's a good story, isn’t it?
Professor Jesse Dwire:
Different.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Like, right, it's a big game of telephone, wait, we have the same master, two degrees up, and you do this way, and I do it this way. Who's right?
Professor Jesse Dwire:
Now, genius. So I'll say this is genius. I didn't hear him say this until about the 2000s. He might have said it earlier, but I didn't hear it publicly said [0:37:45-0:37:46]. that the combinations are all different, because he was 12 rings of Kempo. And each combination had 12 sections. Now I thought this was a genius kind of thing too because it goes back to a lot of the old story theories, human Grandmaster Bizarri, Professor Kimo, they would have 20 techniques, he had to do 20 different ways, right? So you'd have way more than just 20 techniques. But he said it was 12 rings of Kempo and all of them together, created the whole system of Shaolin is what I heard them saying, in 2000. I thought it was again, I don't know. 100% could be part of it. I'm not part of it. But I kind of enjoyed listening to that thought that theory put into.
Jeremy Lesniak:
The last thing I'm going to do is, is say anything that could even be inferred as speaking poorly of a man who now has passed away, right? I mean, like, he's never going to be on the show, like it bums me out. Incredible. But I think, what I think is more interesting than what is said there is why is it said because we all want to be part of something, right? Like, we want to feel part of that lineage to say these techniques are what came out of the Shaolin Temple, however many years ago, that's like, it gives us a sense of belonging. And I think that that's something that a lot of us really don't have these days.
Professor Jesse Dwire:
And I agree with that. But now, I mean, we can all admit that those techniques did not come out of the Shaolin Temple.
Jeremy Lesniak:
There may have gotten probably a few people listening going, wait, what? Yeah, I'm sure I disagree.
Professor Jesse Dwire:
And I was saying way before, the internet. And it's, again, I don't trash when people ask you what the best system is. as and when people will call me it's like, what school is the best school or town even I'm on my public forums in my own town, I always say, all the schools in town are great. You need to figure out what instructor meets your needs and fits best with your kid.I mean, I don't trash any of the systems, I think every one of them has benefits. And again, I think it's really the teachers, what're the teachers thought processes? What are their intentions? right?
Jeremy Lesniak:
I have long said that for one martial arts school owner to trash another school owner, is to say, I would rather someone not train them, to train with that person. Because ultimately, that's what happens. There are areas and you might even be aware of them where all the instructors throw shade at the other instructors. And all that does is create a culture in the area of people saying I'm afraid, afraid to make a bad decision. So I'm just not going to train. That's where that leads. And I think that that's such a bummer, because even the worst instructor I've ever had, for me had people for whom they were the right instructor.
Professor Jesse Dwire:
Absolutely. I've had instructors that no one wanted to go to. They didn't like their demeanor. They couldn't handle being called something or other, right? I wasn't there for spiritual guidance at the time. I was there for some martial guidance at the time. And it's you can pick and choose, I've always, I've tended to train out of state a lot with a lot of my teachers that I find on the road that has something to offer that I haven't seen, and then make sense, and that was something that I always was going for, I have what I taught my students, but I was always searching for I needed to fulfill in my own martial arts needs to get to me to where I am almost I'll never be completed. But I keep filling in holes that I feel that I have. And I've always had to do that in different systems. I've always trained outside the system, right?
Jeremy Lesniak:
Speak to that concept, because it's very similar to a metaphor I use about martial arts training and rounding out and everything. Never be filled.
Professor Jesse Dwire:
So, if I'm feeling really confident in one game, I'm realizing within a week or two that I'm really lacking in another game. And I want to know why or how come if I'm looking at the OB Jutsu, the flexible weapon techniques and the belt techniques or something, there are some great things and I was very weak, I want to train with somebody who obviously was great. So it was in the Filipino arts doing it. And then I found a Japanese instructor who was unbelievable at it, who I was like, wait for a second, a Japanese instructor is going to be rockin' the flexible weapons. And I had never seen it done that way. And it was amazing, right? So I saw all right, well, I found who I'm gonna go train in Virginia with right now and travel to Virginia all the time. So it's just because it's for me when oh, the last person who created their system before me, was able to figure out what they needed for themselves and pass it on. But it wouldn't always mean that it was what I needed, so no.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Absolutely.
Professor Jesse Dwire:
For you. I mean, is that the same?
Jeremy Lesniak:
Like, yes. Well, I think, for me, one of the most empowering realizations was, there is so much to know, even if you forget about being cross style, there is so much to know, there are literally not enough hours in the day for me to forget progress, maintain all of my skills in everything. I always have to sit down something, and it's like, okay, my forms are going to regress over the next year or two years or six months or whatever. Because I'm spending more time focused on sparring or self-defense, four or four, right? And it can be really easy to say, well, no, that's not going to happen. But I've never heard of anyone who's been training for decades. disagree with us. The people who disagree with us are the people who don't realize how much there is that they don't know. When you talk about an event, like the symposium, and for those who may not be familiar with that event, Terry Dao, who has been a guest on the show, and a top student under Bill Wallace put on this wonderful event. And that's where you and I met at the symposium. And it's a bunch of different instructors doing a bunch of different things and a bunch of different ways. And it's a heck of a lot of fun. But it does not take very long for your to train with the other people to go. Oh, oh, and I come out of those events going, okay. I am already training. There was one day, Jeff Driskel, who we have not had on the show, but a wonderful instructor.
Professor Jesse Dwire:
I had a few times he's just awesome.
Jeremy Lesniak:
He’s great. And I had to sit down and say, okay, he's in Pennsylvania. I could do that. But at the time I was training in four schools. The idea of adding a fifth I was like, No, we've got to put this one on hold. This isn't gonna happen right now. Because there, there's only so much time and only so many hours in the day.
Professor Jesse Dwire:
And that’s you better pick wisely. That time you're not gonna get it back.
Jeremy Lesniak:
That's right. Prime is the only thing you can't make more of.
Professor Jesse Dwire:
That's right. It's one thing that I took a while into my adult years to figure out but it became very real, like, what, you're right, I can't get that time back, I can make more money, I can start a new career, I can do this, this and this, but Mocksville spend that time with my family, again, not gonna be I'll spend that time with myself going out being with “me” time so 100% on that.
Jeremy Lesniak:
As someone who's trained with a bunch of different people, and was not only permitted but encouraged to do so very early on. And as you said, at a time when few people did, how do you decide who is and it's the right word, but it carries something with it? So forget the tone, who is worthy of you to learn from? Who is worthwhile for you to become a student under?
Professor Jesse Dwire:
I like that. When they answered a question because a good instructor is going to ask you, what are you looking for? If I'm searching, I'm talking to people out, there was a time I was looking to hit better, I want to punch better. In boxing, I've done boxing, and I want so I asked certain instructors, what is the method for realistically when they hit me. How that hit felt going? Ooh, I haven't been hit like that before. How did you do that? And when they can actually repeat the same thing over and over again, there was more depth there that, I was always looking for depth. I went on a big history crusade for like, a decade, where I was just wanting to figure out Kempo. I want to go all the way back to the roots. And, of course, you just got a bazillion paths. So people leading you in all different directions, it was very difficult. But I wanted to and for my understanding of where our lineage came from. It was just, it was a need for me. And I felt like I fulfilled a lot of that need. But in that process, because of that knowledge, I got to meet one of my people that influenced me a lot Hachi, Anthony, because he had a moon in a mountain moon patch. So of course, what I do, I say to this guy, when I'm much younger, I'm like, oh, Professor Syria, or, and he goes off, he would sit down, he wasn't saying, oh, because I said, Professor Zero, he just said, he thought it was a dumb Kempo guy.
And so you're gonna sit down, we're all out of Saratoga event. And he's like, alright, so what do you know about this path? And I said, Somebody goes, alright, so then he started asking me all these lineage questions. And I was able to answer them. And he looked at me against me delve a little deeper, then he dug a little deeper to see you're not some dumb Kempo guy. So be careful when I say, you're not some just know, a little bit. So because of that, I went to his workout the next day, and I didn't know him at all. And I went to his training session the next day, and I didn't go to a single other training sessions, except for Doug Marcaida's session that weekend. So I just follow this person Hatchi Anthony around the whole time. And, he wowed me, he was doing things that were magical stuff, except the pain was left with marks in streams, right? So there was, and he was doing it to Austin, he was very just down to earth, and he had a background, that was very legit. And he wasn't the same person, as everyone around here. That's the other thing is, a lot of us are all training the same thing here in New England, that we're all just kind of repeating the same thing to each other, which I do love obviously, I'm part of a few groups up here, we kind of we were going over that repeated stuff. And I liked that. But if I'm wanting new stuff, not or something that may be completely off but the same I'm here to go outside, right? so if when I wanted to indulge my Kung Fu side of Shaolin Kempo, I was on the phone with [0:48:47-0:48:48] all the time.
We were doing seminars with him and the Shaolin Kempo part from [0:48:53-0:48:45] and then I always had my stick fighting. So in our Kempo has a lot of stick fighting, and it just hit him with the empty hands so it was great. I like going outside the source so I almost connect what I already knew, but didn't know how to say properly or if I can get multiple ways of doing the same thing with different ways of explaining how it's done. It helps when I'm teaching because it gives better triggers to the students. That was another reason I always like that.
Jeremy Lesniak:
You mentioned going down a rabbit hole for a while on history. Is there a rabbit hole now?
Professor Jesse Dwire:
No.
Jeremy Lesniak:
No.
Professor Jesse Dwire:
That we mystery that we mean.
Jeremy Lesniak:
No that is there something that you're exploring, is there, you talked about it as kind of holes, what some people might say, you know the weaker parts of your quote game.
Professor Jesse Dwire:
I am spending the time now I am feeling the material overload, in my opinion, is what I call it. That's happened. And I think it's that part of letting go of tradition for tradition's sake, I don't want to change something that might have changed something type thing. And I think my biggest thing is I think we're professionals that we've been doing this for a long time. That's who we are to change things. I think we've got a lot of time in the game, to be able to change things, we feel something new has come to light. I mean, when Grandmaster Bizarri came here, there were roughly 17 to 20 techniques and four forms. Okay, you go up to the next generation, more forms more techniques. You go to the next generation, you got 108 techniques, and 20-something forms. You go to the next generation now we've got added Kempo punch techniques. Now, where are they getting all this stuff from their cross-training? right? They're cross-training, and they're bringing in new stuff, but they're not getting rid of the repetitive stuff.
Jeremy Lesniak:
And if I may, this is something that has been a pretty big realization for me just over maybe a year, probably not even that long, when they went from four forms to more forms. Is each of those forms as good as when there were only four? or is it diluting the time? And the quality of each of those forms? It's actually lessened.
Professor Jesse Dwire:
I think we could struggle with all that because how deluded are those forms when they were taught in 1960?
Jeremy Lesniak:
I don't mean deluded in terms of, I mean, I know.
Professor Jesse Dwire:
Yes, Grandmaster Bizzarri would say I can just do one kata for the rest of my life and be a master of one kata, and be able to fight. By just doing that one form, what is it? I fear the man that does one thing. 1000 times instead of the person who does 1000 things once a day. I just
agree with that. But I think martial arts as a business, culture to find the business. And what culture do we have in the 70s and 80s Shaolin? You had Kung Fu on TV? David Carradine. So I'll suddenly Kempo become Shaolin Kempo, right, and all the Kung Fu stuff came in. And then we had a period of time, say, let's say late 80s 90s, we're getting better at the material wasn't the key, it was who had the most material. And now who can memorize the most things and do them and look good? And now we don't have that because there's so much material, that we're not really getting good at any of the material.
And that's my struggle city right now. And I look back to the old roots of the Kempo, you go back to the kaiju and everything cause you Kempo you have the judo you had the jujitsu, you had the locks, you had the throws, you had the boxing, you had to stick fighting. That's where our roots are. Why are we doing all of those? Again, Fortunate Professor Duncan was a judo guy. We always did judo throws, he was a go-to guy before Kempo so we could do the harder forms. And not just so we had that I had that ability. Luckily for me, right, but we need to go back. I need to go back to that. From my own, because I wanted what's best for what I think's best for my students right now. And right now, what I think is best for my students is not memorizing a bajillion techniques, but throwing some gloves on, feeling competent, hitting that bag, and feeling confident being able to go through the partner drills and also tangling it up on the floor.
Jeremy Lesniak:
The deeper I get in my training, the more I believe that it is what I broadly classify as freeform movement, whether it's sparring in any way, randori, or rolling, self-defense, anything where the input in the output, the attack, and the response are undefined. You can still have parameters at times, but that's where all the good stuff is. When you give people the opportunity to kind of figure it out. And if you've got, if you're saddling them with 65 forms, and 242 combinations, and all these other things that they have to do. When do they have time? Not everybody is good to train 20 hours a week.
Professor Jesse Dwire:
That's it. I could do it. But I was putting in a year's worth of training every month almost.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Exactly.
Professor Jesse Dwire:
It's a difference of two hours a week versus 20. And that's what I think we, as the school owners forget, we're like the why 5% of the people 1% of the students who are going to continue. So of course, it worked for us, we, that's what we were in are, right?
Jeremy Lesniak:
Like different breeds.
Professor Jesse Dwire:
Different breeds. And when I'm sitting there in my own head for years, I go, I don't understand why this doesn't make sense to you. This is easy. We just do it. And oh, and I'm like, oh, wait, you've only been here twice a week.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Oh, wait, you have a job
Professor Jesse Dwire:
Which is great. But I want to be able to make sure I can pack that in, twice. And I want them to get the best of the night. I still love my forms. I still love my weapons. And I still love doing a lot of my combinations and Kempos. But I had to almost pick and choose which ones at this time are best for the students to work on. What's going to correlate, am I going to show them a form because it looks pretty? or can I show them a form and then withdraw the techniques and movements so there's not just wasted movement, but it's the repetitive repetition of movement for a purpose?
Jeremy Lesniak:
I think of it as a core curriculum, which is the stuff that everybody no matter what is of importance to you in martial arts in this style, this system is necessary. So the thing is, nobody's going to argue over it anyway, right? Like, we all need to know how to punch and do these few kicks and whatever. And then you have what I refer to as an extended curriculum, something it all has value. But maybe it doesn't all have equal value to everyone.
Professor Jesse Dwire:
Correct? I like that. I just so much this is so it's plus, you're also changing a pattern, I gotta change my thinking. And it's more, it's harder for me to change that thinking than it is for some of my students to go, okay. Because they've never seen it differently.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Right? Are you enjoying this process?
Professor Jesse Dwire:
Yes, and no.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Okay.
Professor Jesse Dwire:
Would life be simpler? If I just follow the plan? Yes. But would it be fulfilling? No. I know what I am enjoying it. And I just got to realize, one of my friends will say ready, ready, fire, aim, hey, ready, fire aim, and I just got to get it going, and then kind of help it, I gotta realize it's not going to be perfect. And then the people I teach are going to have to change it, and have to make it better and see where my gaps and my flaws were.
Jeremy Lesniak:
But that makes them part of that process. And they will learn something through that, the students who come after, won't learn, they're gonna have a better understanding of the why, because they've seen the contrast.
Professor Jesse Dwire:
That's right, like, after Black, while training for myself, is really strictly based on what Professor Duncan created for his style of martial arts. So I'm really good. His forms are the fighting techniques, and the concepts so I make sure I'm really working on his material so that I have it down when he's not sharing it anymore, right? So, but, you know, these kids are gonna, it's gonna be great, I really am excited. And I really, and I enjoy the teaching method because it goes along to a method that we're taught before, was, it didn't matter, there's no such thing as an advanced technique. And that's been one of the hardest things for a lot of my friends to ever understand, was one of my instructors, Hans Anthony would always say there's no such thing as an advanced technique, just an advanced practitioner, you can't tell me that you're from Ball kick is the same as that white belts from Ball kick, right, like, and that's a very basic kick. But when you hit somebody, you're gonna be able to tell, you know, you should be able to manipulate that body to where it's going to land, right? Where the white belts are going to flare it out. And, you know, is a row an advanced technique in Kempo? I guess, was it an advanced technique in judo, though?
Jeremy Lesniak:
It's only advanced because something has to come first. And you look at it.
Professor Jesse Dwire:
What system are we doing? or if I'm doing this system, I'm gonna be doing that a lot more than this, right? So it's true, there's a lot of truth in that. So when I'm teaching, my hopeful new way of doing it is they're all in the same area and have the same level, learning the same techniques at the same time, so we're just going to be a little better than others. And those people should be at that level a year from now. It's not a new concept. It's just newer for me to teach it that way.
Jeremy Lesniak:
So let's say it's 10 years from now, and we bring you back on and somehow I haven't seen you in between now. And then. And I think Jesse what's been going on with you and your training and your school and just your martial arts life? Since I last talked to you, what would you hope you were telling me a decade from now?
Professor Jesse Dwire:
A decade from now what I'd love to be telling you is that I've made some students and people feel how I felt about the love for the arts, and they want to move on and teach it themselves. And they would be running the school, my school, or another school or something like that, again, being fair about everything, but I would love to be able to in 10 years, and I would love to be able to sit back and have more managerial things and seeing what I've created and how they take into it. You know, I want to see people be successful It's taken me a long time ago from a nonprofit school in Syracuse, teaching in the inner city, with government grants, and everything like that too after a long time, feeling comfortable in my business. And I'm feeling comfortable in the systems and feeling really great with everyone surrounding me too. And that's another thing that I love being surrounded by the people that I have right now in the school outside of the school. And that's just been something huge for me surrounding myself with the right people
elevating me. And as I'm being elevated, I want my students to feel that elevation, want to break I want them, I want everyone to come up with me.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Awesome. Well, we've got a bunch of different people who are going to be paying attention to this, you know, different schools, different countries, different systems, levels of training, reasons for training, what would you say to that group of everyone.
Professor Jesse Dwire:
Keeps training, keep working on what you think is your core, and then see what you can know, but then don't be afraid to think outside and look outside the core because it can only improve it. If you find something again, it might not be a new technique, but it could be a new way of expressing it or hearing it that makes yours better, you'll be able to fine-tune in, even more, there are always ways.
I found that if I'm trying to learn a technique, that part might be a hard style. And I talked to a kung fu guy, and all of a sudden, oh, there it is, I didn't have that piece of it. Oh, wait for a second, there was a spiral motion in that straightforward linear motion to you know, there was, you know, you had to find both, so stick to what you believe is working for you. But never be afraid to explore outside of that, and to improve yourself because you don't have it yet. You don't know it yet. You're not the best you can be. And but only going to work for it. You got to just keep working for the best you can be and the only way to do that is by exploring and training and doing new and different things to and perfecting your hope and hone in on your art.
Jeremy Lesniak:
If people want to get a hold of you, how?
Professor Jesse Dwire:
You can go to Social media, martial arts, and Facebook. If anyone really wants to reach out to me, my email address is XiHandwyer@gmail.com. I am definitely accessible on Facebook. I'm right out there. Look me up, you're gonna send a friend request. So make sure you kind of tag how we know or what we know because I don't it's going from a personal to a business page. But it's still it's in between. So I'm watching while I'm allowing on it also. But I love sharing everything although show knowledge and listening to other people and their stories and going through what their training was. And in I guess it's sharing and expressing a little bit of mine right now and more of an open forum is different. But I do love it. You know, just like going to the symposium I love, you know, you see me on the floor I love once that game faces on, it's usually the same smile face to the enjoying every second of the moment. Keep doing that from 2022 to 2023. Everyone just keeps enjoying the moment.
Jeremy Lesniak:
I appreciate anyone willing to come on here and publicly speak with me and share their mind. Especially when some of what they think believe and are willing to share is stuff that might ruffle some feathers. The idea of changing material, and our conversation about diluting results by having additional requirements is something that not everyone's willing to chat with me about. But I had a great time talking with Jesse about it. And I think we're on the same page. We're on the same page about a lot of things, especially our dedication to the arts and our love for what they can do for so many people. So thank you, Professor Dwyer, appreciate you coming on. Hey, have you checked out the show notes yet? The links have you checked out the photos that we included? Have you checked all the good stuff out at whistlekickmartialartsradio.com? You should. We got two episodes each week that we bring it and they're all there. If you want to find episodes on Kempo or kendo, you can search for them on that site, there's a reason we tag things and we put the transcripts of it makes it easy to find stuff that you might be interested in. Here we are 764 episodes in and every month we see people listening to every episode, not one person I don't think it's one person. But we do see attention on every episode that we've done in the past because they're all cool.
They all have value. Speaking of value, if you find value in this show and the other things that we do as a company, please consider supporting us. You got things you can pay for for products, and events, but you also have lots of free stuff to take just a little bit of your time. If you've never left us a review, please consider leaving us a review. If you've never shared an episode with someone that might not know about martial arts radio, please consider sharing an episode. We appreciate the support of everyone who has and continues to support all of you Patreon contributors, all of you who post episodes on your social media. Don't worry, I see it. I know you're there. I know you're doing it. It means a great deal to me. You know, I'd love to come to your school and have a seminar. If you are curious about what that might look like. Reach out to me. If you have a topic suggestion if you have a guest suggestion. Reach out to me if you have feedback on what we do as a company, reach out to me by email address, Jeremy@whistlekick.com, and whistlekick social media is as you might have guessed @whistlekick. That takes us to the end. I will see you again soon. Until next time, train hard smile, and have a great day.