Episode 630 - Kyoshi David Ahrens
Kyoshi David Ahrens is a martial arts practitioner and instructor at the East Coast Karate in Rhode Island.
I don’t know if I could separate myself from the Martial Arts. People say all the time that Martial Arts is part of my life but I think my life is just part of Martial Arts.
Kyoshi David Ahrens - Episode 630
Lost as a teenager because of the tough life he went through. Martial Arts was the reason why Kyoshi David Ahrens was able to cope but it was Martial Art’s influence on him as a child that kept his passion. Today, true to his mission, Kyoshi Ahrens is teaching kids as well as adults to keep them focused, fit and confident.
Kyoshi David Ahrens is known for his integrity, professionalism, and unconditional commitment to excellence in his teaching and his training. He teaches all around the world, throughout North America, Okinawa, and South Africa.
Listen to learn more!
Show Notes
Find out more about Kyoshi David Ahren’s school at eastcoastkarate.net.
Show Transcript
You can read the transcript below.
Jeremy Lesniak:
What's happening everybody and welcome. This is whistlekick Martial Arts Radio Episode 630 with my guest today, Kyoshi Dave Ahrens. I'm Jeremy Lesniak, I'm your host for the show. Founder of whistlekick passionate traditional martial artists. And that's why we do all the things that we do here at whistlekick. It's in support of you, the traditional martial artists, if you want to see what that means, go check out all the stuff we've got going on, at whistlekick.com, our digital hub, if you will, and one of the things over there is our store. And yeah, it's one of the ways that we cover the expenses for this show, and all the other wonderful content that we try to bring you multiple times each and every week. And if you use the code PODCAST15 you save 15% lets us know that our efforts here with the show lead to some sales, and it all hopefully, connects dots and makes accounting people happy. If you want to go deeper on this or any other episode of the show, you're going to want a different website whistlekickmartialartsradio.com. We bring you two episodes each and every week, and the entire purpose behind this show. Well, it's to connect and educate and entertain traditional martial artists the world over. If you want to help guarantee future episodes of the show, there are lots of ways you can do that you could make a purchase. Like I said, you could share it episode, follow us on social media. We're at whistlekick everywhere you can think of, you could tell a friend about us. Maybe pick up a book on Amazon, leave a review on Spotify, or Apple podcasts or Facebook or Google or anywhere else you could think of. Or you could support our Patreon, patreon.com/whistlekick. Patreon is a place where we post exclusive content. And if you contribute as little as $2 a month, you get access to some of it. The more you contribute, the more we give you access to. I just wrote a huge update yesterday gave Patreon insiders, a behind the scenes look on a bunch of things going on at whistlekick, including future episodes. Some that we've recorded, some that we haven't recorded yet, we've got some big names coming. And if you want to be the first to know what's coming for this show, and the other things that we do, while Patreon is a great place to go. And on top of that, most people get free merch. You sign up, we send you a bunch of stuff. So go check it out, patreon.com/whistlekick. Let's talk about today's guest. Longtime listeners know that we break a lot of stuff out from the episodes as quotes. Sometimes we use them in social media. We put one at the front of episodes, we choose one and we include it in the description for the podcast episode. Well, this was one of the most quotable episodes we've had in a long time maybe ever. And really at the heart of its historic about martial arts, but it's about belonging. And it was one that I really enjoyed. And I hope that you do as well. So here we go. Hey, Dave, welcome to whistlekick Martial Arts Radio.
Dave Ahrens:
Jeremy, thank you so much for having me on. Super excited to be here. And I look forward to having a chat with you.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Cool. Yeah. You know, one of the best honors that we ever get is when someone's come on the show. And they say, you should go talk to this person, not only do they just say, here's a name, go talk to them, but they actually involve themselves in the process. They kind of serve it up for us, you know, let the other guests know. “Hey, I had a good experience on this”. And that's kind of how you came to us, isn't it?
Dave Ahrens:
Yeah, absolutely. I have a good friend of mine Sensei Eric Johnstone, told me about it and said that you guys are doing really good work here. And so that's what turned me on to it. And became an avid listener myself.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Oh, cool. Yeah. There's nothing better to me than to hang out with martial artists, talk about martial arts, and then know that other martial artists are going to enjoy listening to our martial arts commentary, conversation. I mean, what is better than that?
Dave Ahrens:
Not much, it's not my opinion, especially when you have somebody that you're chatting with somebody that you know, loves it, and is into it. To the degree that you are. I do love it. You know, I laugh all the time. Because I just say that there's two kinds of people that you have martial arts conversations with. One of them is kind of, you know, “Hey, I heard you do karate”, then turns into kind of a really odd conversation, and then there's the people that, you know, see it from a similar perspective as you as something they do as part of their life. And it really is, it's one of the best things.
Jeremy Lesniak:
And I think that's something that almost everyone who's been on the show has in common that it is part of their lifeblood, it is an aspect of who they are that becomes really hard to separate. You know, you can you can take the training away from the person, but you know, they don't stop being a martial artist. And I think a lot of us experienced that over the last 18 months or so, you know, what does? What does my relationship to martial arts look like when things are thrown for a loop?
Dave Ahrens:
Yeah, I don't know if I could separate myself from the martial arts. People say all the time that, you know, martial arts is part of my life. And I think my life is just part of martial arts. It's just something that, you know, I'm just another cog in the wheel along the way. But there is no definite notion, there's no me without my karate. How long have you felt that way? Do you remember a point where you had that realization? I would, because the feeling has to come before the realization right. I would agree with you that the feeling has definitely has to come first. And I'm not sure if I really at the time, you know, quantified that as you know, that kind of a feeling. It's probably been honed over the years to really understand that. But I think it came to a point when I felt like I had, I don't know if this is the right word, but a mission. I felt like, there was a direction that I needed to go. It was kind of beyond, you know, me just wanting to go to the dojo and train in martial arts. And stuff felt like there was someplace I had to go. Something driving, and I don't even know, to this day, if I know what that thing is. Because it still drives me every day. But it sounds like some people might use the word calling. I guess you could use a word that that would be an apt description for it. You know, I don't know if it's been my calling my whole life, or is it? If that's something that I think we'll never find out as I supposed to be here? You know, but I definitely feel like this is I'm exactly where I need to be.
Jeremy Lesniak:
That's a comfortable feeling. One that a lot of people don't experience.
Dave Ahrens:
Agreed. Agreed. Yeah, so calling mission, it definitely has had a huge impact on my life. And you know, I'll do martial arts until the day I die. And you are right there, there really is no separating the martial art out of the martial artist, especially once they've had that connection with it. And, you know, it's gone beyond just a just a hobby.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Now, you're an instructor. And I would imagine that you've had maybe not the same conversation, but similar conversations with students over the years, they've asked you about your relationship with training or when you got started things, things like that questions that we generally ask on the show. But when you have that conversation, with your students, about the blurriness between who you are as a person and who you are as a martial artist, or to say to another way, what you might look like, at this time, if martial arts was to somehow be extracted from you, you know, some alien Space Technology just sucks that knowledge out of you. When you have that conversation, I'm assuming you do. How does that go? How do you explain that to them?
Dave Ahrens:
It's a really good question. And I'm glad that technology doesn't exist. Me too. You know, I don't know if there's a picture in my head yet of myself without what martial arts has given me. I think, you know, it would have to bring me back, we would have to go back in time and look at, you know, who I was as a teenager when I started and you know, what paths I was on and where I believe now that I thought I was heading. But I would think it would be easy to say that if that technology did exist. And that was taken out of me, I would probably be the last. I don't know if I would know myself. And, you know, when I have conversations with my students about, you know, the connection there who I am, I think they understand it, they see it. Because again, whether I'm going to be or not, I'm always me, and that has martial arts woven throughout it. But I think when talking to students, it usually ends up being in those times where they may be lost, and they're trying to find their way to, you know, do I want to continue to do this? And, you know, do I want to make this a lifelong venture, because once they've gotten to that point, then the conversation changes, because they've already been what we tend to term as lifers in this, but to a student that is trying to figure out if they want, if they weren't going to do, they really want crushed a martial art in their life, you know, in the current state. So, for instance, they're already coming to the dojo, are they training? You know, because we all know that once you do martial arts, even if it's for a little while, everything that you learn is going to be with you forever. It may not be in the forefront of your consciousness. But it's in there. But for trying to separate the corrupt day out, in that way. And I think, again, for me, I don't know, again, I don't know if I have a vision of that. I don't know if I want to.
Jeremy Lesniak:
So, let's take that knowledge about you. And let's roll back the tape of your life, you said you started as a teenager, did you feel lost as a teenager when you started training?
Dave Ahrens:
So, I think if we go back that far, I was a child of a split family, my parents divorced, when I was preaching, separated between two different states. And so, I think there's some natural confusion, and anger, and that kind of stuff. And I definitely felt like I was an angry young man when I was that age. And I didn't know what I was looking for. I didn't even know that I needed anything at that age. It was just trying to deal with the stresses of life and things that come at you. But I knew kind of early on probably even before, you know, the split and moving between states. I think I knew that martial art was probably going to have something to do with that. If you go back, early as a kid, and I'm 50. So, we'll just get up, get that out of the way and date myself. But any look back, and there's all those standard answers that everybody has, you know, and undeniably briefly, and, come through the TV show, which I watch, but wasn't like, super into. But I was thinking about the things that really connected with me as a young child, and an odd answer came up into my head. So, in 1977, I was a six-year-old standing in line waiting for Star Wars. And I consider myself lucky enough to be able to see that movie in the theater as a six-year-old. And I think it's going to sound super dorky, super geeky, but I consider myself lucky to have done that, but I think it had an impact on I think something about and we all know that. even George Lucas says that the Jedi, the whole Jedi thing was taken from the martial arts. So, I think somewhere down deep, that had an effect on me. So even before, you know, I moved to New England. I'd asked I was like; I want to do karate. And I was probably 10/11 and it was no, no, no. So, it just didn't happen. So, it wasn't until, you know, I moved to New England. Live with my mother. That I was able to start and that was around 85/86-ish, mid teen years there. And I definitely, I was getting into some fights not a lot and wasn't getting in trouble with the law isn't that kind of a kid but I definitely had a something underneath a I don't know if I was launched or not, I was just angry. But definitely needs...
Jeremy Lesniak:
Alot of kids at that age are even if you know they have a beautiful home. I have, even both parents are together and they're not moving around, you know, it can still be a rough time for adolescent early teen.
Dave Ahrens:
For sure, you know, now having a child of my own and having you know, lots of teens in the dojo, you definitely get to see that firsthand that battle of figuring out who you are, or who you want to be. No wonder, no wonder we're upset at that age. It's just not easy.
Jeremy Lesniak:
So, it's not an option, you're figuring stuff out. And at some point, it sounds like your mother relents and says ‘Yes’.
Dave Ahrens:
She did. And, but if we go back actually a little bit, you know, so that would have been probably end of eighth grade or something like that I actually ended up starting. But there was kind of a catalyst before that. So, when I finally moved, we ended up moving to southeastern Connecticut, right on the border of Rhode Island. And it was the beginning of seventh grade. And I was I looked a little different, I had long blonde hair, even as a seventh grader. Not a lot of kids had really rocked the long hair them. And I got bullied really bad. One individual in particular. And you know that it's funny, because bullying is not funny, of course. But I think about this occasionally is that I think about this, and I brought this up, and I think it's an important part of my journey. And I wonder if the bullies ever remember? Yes. And I doubt it. I doubt that these people are sitting here, you know, 35 years later, thinking about the impact that they had on somebody's life. And I do find interesting about this, as I am a firm believer that there are two kinds of teachers in our life. There are teachers that are going to teach us what to do. And then there one's going to teach us what not to do. And, you know, this individual taught me how not to be a good person, or how not to treat people. So, it was a lesson nonetheless. But it was one of those classic stories where, you know, I didn't want to go to school and I was upset stomach. And I got beat pretty good quite a few times. You know, throughout seventh grade, so it that had a major impact on me not feeling safe. Not feeling like I could protect myself. You know, and who knows where that would have gone to. Had I'd stayed in that state that situation didn't end until I fought back. And there was no karate involved even though in retrospect I think I threw an axe to accounting but wow. So, here's the funny thing is we were...
Jeremy Lesniak:
Kicks don't usually come out with pre training. Right?
Dave Ahrens:
So, what's interesting about this is the final kind of episode of this battle with this individual ended up in our gym's locker room, and he jumped me and we ended up on the ground, kind of opposite head defeat thing. And his head was down there. So, it was a ground based early MMA I guess, ground-based axe kicks that kind of just hit him across the face. And, you know, evidently broke his nose. he bled a bit, quite a bit. But it was enough of a resistance for me, where he never even looked at me again. But building up to that every day of school was anxiety, and fear and looking around corners, and, you know, not wanting to go certain places I knew that's where he was going to be so that one day, that one moment of standing up for myself, made all the difference in the world. So fast forward about a year, my mother finally relaxing, you know, says, “alright”, well, you got to figure it out, what you're going to do. And so, I had gotten my best friend and I had gotten this little guest pass kind of a business card size, guest password, three free classes. So, the dojo was probably about four or five miles from my house. So, I could get on my bike and ride to the dojo, but I was too scared to go in. Because I looked in. And it appeared to be mostly all adults, all mostly high-ranking people, all beating the heck out of each other. So, I sat there for about a month, with my hands cupped around my face, looking in the window, way too scared to go inside. So, a couple of times, the owner of that school had seen me and came over to the door, and then I promptly ran away. And like I said, that went on for about a month. And then finally, I couldn't run away. It kind of caught me said, “Hey, come on in”. And I had that guest password, maybe holding on to it for a while. And so, my best friend, and I went in, and we took our first classes together.
Jeremy Lesniak:
What was your friend doing during this I was he also peering in running away with you?
Dave Ahrens:
I think to a lesser degree. And if we happen to be out and riding our bikes together, you know, we'd stop. And he seemed kind of interested, I don't know if he was as interesting or as interested in it as I was. Because I just seem to remember going there a lot. And anytime I was in that area, go around the corner, look in the window, you know, even if it was just a casual roll by the look and see what was going on in the dojo. But yeah, he was definitely there with me a bit.
Jeremy Lesniak:
What I'm most fascinated about, as you're talking about this moment, just before, I would imagine you're going to start training and that this changes your life is this contrast between here's this violent situation that's come up that is really taken hold of you, made an impact on you. And I don't get the sense that you were terribly talkative about it with your mother.
Dave Ahrens:
No, not really. My brother, I have an older brother, my brother. My brother tried to help once with it and ended up meeting that same individual on the street and gave him a bit of a whipping as you could say, and not only made things worse once I got to school. Sure. So, I pretty much kind of, you know, clammed up about it. You're on your own.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Yeah. You're on your own, you recognize somehow, possibly, in part because of watching Star Wars. And by the way, everybody who was roughly that age that saw Star Wars in the theater, talks about it as a religious experience. So, I wasn't there, but I get it. Yeah. I get it just from hearing people talk about, you've got this interesting contrast of this violence around you. And you see an option for a solution in martial arts training. That's the connection I'm hearing. But the way you described your first reaction, they were beating on each other. It's this paradox, isn't it, that here's this violence that teaches you how to avoid violence and it sounds like even at that young age, there was something about it, that was scary, but you recognize the importance.
Dave Ahrens:
I would tend to agree with you about that. And I think you know; you look in the window of any martial arts school that happens to be sparring right now. And I imagine that new people walking into my dojo, look at you know, when my students are sparring you think, “Oh, my gosh, they're beating each other”. I mean, I can only imagine that. That's the impression they get. But there was something or something almost safe about it because you weren't seeing people get hurt. You weren't seeing people in pain. But you were definitely witnessing skill. So, it was to me, if I looked in those windows and thought of it as violence per se, you know what I mean? And again, as a teenager, who really knows what I was looking at, but looking back retrospectively. It just, I mean, let's be honest, first of all, it was just really cool to look in that window and watch these guys do what they were doing with the skill that they had. It was just really cool. Scary. But really cool.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Yeah, those aren't mutually exclusive. Are they? Yeah. So, he catches you at the door. And we can't run away in time, what does he say?
Dave Ahrens:
Come on in, introduces himself brings me in kind of shows me around the school. Basically, the opposite of what I had anticipated it to be. You know, how anxiety is going to turn it into something that it's not. You know, so I felt welcome. I don't know if I felt at home yet. But definitely, it was inviting. And the fact that there weren't a lot of teenagers, or I don't even know if there were any children hardly in the dojo at that time. And very few teenagers. They caught me and my friend, we stood out, you know, as kids almost. But it definitely felt like, you know, come on in, experience this, and it's not going to hurt you. We're not going to, you know, it was, I think the initial experiences, probably the only one that made me actually do that first lesson. Sounds very welcoming. Yes. Until we get to the first lesson. So, we get there for the first lesson. And, we're talking this point there. It's an adult class, there are green belts, brown belts, black belts, no white belts, no kids. So, we're the odd ducks. So, we go through and we're doing, you know, just regular classes and warm ups and stretches. And I remember being incredibly inflexible, and, you know, thinking I don't even know if I can do this part, let alone all the rest of that stuff. And then class went through pretty fine. Nothing stood out until like the last section of class where we sparred on the first day. And back then there was no chest guard, or head gear, or any of that kind of stuff feels, hey, “here's the Mets, go fight these guys”. Which of course, I find out later, these guys are alternative champions in wrestling their division and all that kind of thing. And, you know, so it couldn't be any other way.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Yeah, they couldn't be, you know, four classes ahead of you and barely know what's going on? No, no, that wouldn't make for a good movie.
Dave Ahrens:
So, it was a really rough class. And of course, didn't get anything even resembling a hit in on anyone. Got hit a lot. And, you know, went through the class, and we got done, and get outside and my best friend looks at me and goes, screw this. I'm not coming back. And I went back. And I know why. I know, that's such a good question.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Oh, you start off, you're afraid. You get beat up, you know, in a similar way to what you were trying to escape. You know, certainly with less mal intent. But at 14 if I'm doing my math right now, you may not have recognized that. And then you've got the social validation from your friend saying, I'm not going to do this. And you return counter to all of that.
Dave Ahrens:
Yeah. God, I wish I knew why. I'm glad I did. But it's such a good question that I did. And we could probably sit here all day talking and I don't know if I could come up with an answer to that one. There we go back to the beginning of our conversation where fate was it? Was it being I supposed to be? I don't know if I believe in that, but sounds good. It's funny because, you know, to this day, 35 years later, when I run across occasionally run across that friend, he still looks at me goes, why did you stay? I don't know. I don't know. Do you have a guess? I think that's something down deep. And if we go back to the fact that, you know, I do believe that I was an angry young man that was trying to deal with all the stuff that had happened to him from the divorce of my parents and the bullying and like my brother, I love him to death. He was kind of a jerk back then, as most, I think older. I think it's part of the job description. I think so. But I think generally, I was just, you know, if we go back a little further, when my parents split, you know, I spent a couple years with my father, and stepmother. And I don't necessarily want this to turn into a counseling session. But there was some abuse there. And I think that rooted something in me, to where I just, like I said, I think I grew up an angry young man. And I think down deep, either I wanted to never have to experience those things again, or wanted to have the skill to I don't know, if I think it would be too pure of a comment. In saying that I was just looking to defend myself, and maybe I just wanted to be tough. You know, because as a kid, you don't rationalize this as well. You know, I want to be a just a wholesome person, and I want to be able to defend myself, I don't think kids think that way. I think we want to think they do. But I think I was probably sick and tired of just these moments that they were out of my control. And I think down deep I felt that martial arts crop in particular, to give that to me, in in some almost subconscious way. Because I don't even know if I rationalized that as a teenager.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Now, one of the things I'm wondering, you know, we anybody who's raised children, whether that's, through training, or biologically, knows that kids learn by testing boundaries. They push, they find where the lines are. And what you're describing to me sounds like a childhood that didn't have the same type of boundaries and structure that one might expect, in a child's upbringing. You brought up Star Wars, I'm going to guess that at some point prior to ‘85, you saw Empire?
Dave Ahrens:
Yes.
Jeremy Lesniak:
And the impact on a young boy craving structure of the training for Luke with Yoda. I mean, you can take Luke Yoda, and you can throw it into Daniel, Miyagi, or any number of other paradigms, you know, any other examples out of the paradigm of student and teacher. And so, I'm wondering if you saw, okay, there's something that I want on some level, boom. Anybody who trained at a karate school, any martial arts school in the 80s, it was all structure. That's all it was. It was structure and getting beat on. Yeah. And so, it sounds like, you step in and bam, there's what you were looking for. What was missing? What were those boundaries?
Dave Ahrens:
And you might be right. And I mean, there's no reason why that shouldn't be correct. I don't think and I think it's subconscious. I definitely don't think that I was, you know, intelligent enough or self-aware enough, at that time, to be able to say, you know, I'm lacking something here. Let's go fill this gap. But, you know, our, our drains have a way of doing that for us sometimes. I think you might be right.
Jeremy Lesniak:
So, you get there, and you go back for class two, and you're still going strong. Now you can't separate martial arts from who you are, it's coded into your DNA at this point. What is the path between those two points look like?
Dave Ahrens:
An interesting one. So, what I had happened into, was a school who, especially back in 80s, did a lot of open tournaments, there was a lot of competition. And I just started this party, roughly around that time Karate Kid came out, and of course, centered around economies. So, you know, tournaments were a big, big thing, then. And I got to be honest, when I say that, I didn't absolutely love them. nor was I particularly good at them. There was just something about it that just didn't click that and I did quite a few years of them. And, again, I'm not still not an adult at this point. 15/16/17. And just really not. It wasn't my thing, for sure. As far as, like the school owner, and the people that were in there, there were a lot of really good, you know, tournament competitors. I mean, world class, and it just didn't really click with me, training them. And every aspect of training Kobudo, Karate, you know, and scoring, they all loved it all. But just the whole competing thing. And I don't want to use the word showing off, but it was. And then if I just didn't like the attention or didn't like the eyes on me or whatever it was. It just wasn't my thing. So that's okay. Yeah. So, one, probably one of the most important days, as far as I'm concerned, in my development as a martial artist. I'll never forget it was a class, is a rather large class at people's greenbelt at the time. So, it was like three rows back in class, just stretch them. And there's a row of black belts. And in the front, there's a row of brown belts in front of me.
I'm no one, I'm just another student in the crowd. And we're stretching out and the door to the training room opens and somebody tells the owner of the school, that head instructor that he's got a phone call. So, he stands up, looks past two rows, and says, “Hey, Dave, takeover class”. Now I had to be, like 16 or 17 years old, at the time, maybe 17. And the first thing I do is have a heart attack, followed by an aneurysm. And I'm thinking why I'm three rows back. Like, there's a lot of people that can take this class over, why are you even looking at me. And again, I know nothing about me stood out. I wasn't, I guess I certainly wasn't tournament children. So, I get up front. And everybody's in kind of a straddle split position, and we're all touching our left leg and my big contribution, the classes switch, totally go to the other side. And I basically led them through stretching, and then started to get into, you know, maybe the bulk of class a little bit when the instructor came back and took over, and I jumped back in. But that moment, stands out as my first teaching experience. And looking back at it now, it really was the epicenter of what would guide and drives me pushing forward. Because now, at my age, looking back at that, even though early on in my training, I felt like being in karate, and doing all that was where I was supposed to be. But now I realized that standing in front of a student of a group of students and teaching them and making a difference. That's really where I was supposed to be.
Jeremy Lesniak:
And to me it sounds like those two aneurisms, it got a little better.
Dave Ahrens:
Yeah. Absolutely. So, after that happened, you know, some time goes by. And in that dojo as happens in most dojos, there's a mass exodus, the senior student goes off opens his own school, you know, a bunch of students follow. And you're left in this school with, you know, none of the senior, black belts or teaching staff. And so, then I was offered a position as kind of an assistant teacher, this is as a green belt. And I jumped at it, I think I jumped at it almost without thinking. And came down, you know, after school or my bike down there, once I could drive, you know, drove my car there. And it wasn't paid at the time, it was just a volunteer kind of a leadership basis thing. And I'd go and teach and I start teaching a lot. And eventually got to the point where I was teaching the bulk of the classes, and then was taken on as an employee as a staff member and then get that with that, you know, at that dojo for a long time. And really, really found. I hate to say it again, but where I belonged. [41:32-41:36], I think as a human in general, I think I'm most comfortable standing on my dojo for teaching. You know, and, so he did that happily, for quite a few years. And so around 1993, I'm engaged to my now, wife. And, you know, we're planning on having a family and, I understand that it's difficult, you know, for dojos, to support multiple people unless they're really large. And so, I ended up leaving that position, going off and getting a job with health insurance, and all that kind of stuff. And I'd go back to the dojo, and I'm still training on my own, but I go back to the dojo, and every now and then. So around 90, this is this is 93, I got married, so 94 in a weird, you know, let me back up. I was miserable.
My other job I make, and I'm more than honest about this, I make a terrible employee. I'm horrible. Especially when you get to the point where you're comfortable enough where you start thinking, well, can we do it this way, and I think we can adjust it. And it's almost like the, the martial arts strategist in me, is always trying to find out find a better system. And so, I make a terrible employee, and I hated it as miserable. And my wife knew I was miserable, and she was pregnant at the time. So, a bad turn of things for grandmother passes away. lived a long, healthy life. But she left us some money. When I say some money, it was like $3,000. So not an inheritance, but a little bit of money. At the time, we were dead broke. I mean, you know, having to meet the electric company guy at the meter. So, we wouldn't shut the electricity off kind of broke. And so, we get this money. And we're just trying to figure out what we're going to do with it, we can pay this bill and pay that bill. And my wife makes a comment that is legend at this point. And she says, “Why don't we open a dojo?” And I left the train, no. And so, I laughed. And I looked at her and she wasn't like, she was serious about it. And so that was this seed that got planted in my head. Like, wait, is this something that I can actually do? It almost didn't dawn on me at the time. And I knew I was miserable. And I needed to get on to something else. And that seed planted the tree that grew from that one comments in my life. That became just a drive that hasn't stopped. And that's 25 years ago.
Jeremy Lesniak:
And did you ever ask her why that was her idea. Her recommendations for that money.
Dave Ahrens:
No, I never asked her that in that way.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Because it sounds if I think about the situation that you were in, and it's one that I've been in multiple times, kind of living hand to mouth, not having a financial cushion, that $3,000 probably could have been game changing in a lot of ways. Yeah. And obviously, she knew you were passionate about Karate. But there's something there. And I think that's what's really striking me is whether it was, you know, Sixth Sense faith in you that this was a good financial move. And anybody listening to this, who's open to school knows that it is rarely a good financial move to open a martial art school. But there's something really powerful that probably speaks more to your relationship with her than anything else. And it blows me away. And I think it's awesome. You know, looking back 25 years, she has definitely been the best advocate for, you know, what I can't do. And I mean, I think the ultimate and support because I have done some crazy things throughout the years, I wake up one morning and say, “Honey, I want to be a beekeeper” and she goes, “Okay”. You know, at the age of 41, I walked up to her and I said, “Honey, I think I want to become a volunteer firefighter”. And she says, “okay”, so she's always there to support, always, always. And so, she says, “You should open a dojo”. And what's next? What happens?
Dave Ahrens:
So, it's like, as far as the timeline goes, I don't even remember. I mean that was right around ‘94. So, I started looking, and just driving around, I knew I didn't want to, you know, open a school in or around, you know, where my previous teachers' school was. You know, I kind of wanted to go off and do my own thing. So, I just drove around, I didn't want to move too far from home, you know, where we lived at the time, which was in southern Rhode Island. And so, I found this, as most I think, early dojo owners go for is. What are they saying real estate, location, location, location, and most martial arts schools go price, price, price? So, I found this just off the beaten path, little teeny space, there was, I don't even know if it was 400 square feet, it was little. And it was in a town, probably 15-20 minutes from where we lived. But the whole town has got 8,000 people in the adjoining town, which is, you know, kind of act as one has another 8,000. So, there's only 16,000 people in this entire kind of region. And, you know, so I've been talking to people and, you know, talk to my previous instructor, what I got from everyone almost, across the board was a dojo, will never survive there. You're making a mistake. Think about your family. You have a baby on the way. You know, how could you do this, you have a steady job. So, all these it was, with an exception of my wife, every other person around us was telling us not to do it. So, I had to do it. There was there was no option. I don't know if that's just my oppositional defiance. Or that's again, that drive in a direction that I needed. I needed to fulfill. So ended up negotiating a little bit with the guy that owned the building. And it was February 1 of 1995, was my very first class in my dojo. And it was funny, we reminisce about it all the time as this tiny little space we were having, carpet put down because it was concrete and you know, certainly couldn't afford a wood floor or anything. So just putting down some car. We stood in the hallway waiting for the carpet guys to finish. So, we could start. And it was a great class. In fact, to this day, I still have three of those students with any aneurysms heart attacks, no aneurisms. Well, I mean, many along the way. I think we can all agree that 2020 was one gigantic aneurysm. Yeah. But that was 26 years ago.
Jeremy Lesniak:
And you still have three of those students? Yeah. If I were to ask them, if I was to sit down with the three of them and say, “Why”, what would they say? Oh, now I got to put words in other people's mouths? That's a really good question. Well, clearly, you've done something, right. You've presented information or presented an environment to them that spoke to them that they value. 26 years is a long time it is.
Dave Ahrens:
And I would hope that's what they would say. My senior student, you know, has it my senior student, it's still in my dojo, I do have one of the other individuals that are still with me. He has his own dojo in Houston. But I think she would have said the one that is, you know, with me in my dojo here. She often talks about how training, and these are her words, that training in the dojo saved her life. Whether it was the state of mind that she was in at the time, shorter jokes that, you know, it was, you know, it was some sort of like $69, especially with a free uniform. And she decided Either that, or Weight Watchers and the free uniform hooked her. That's kind of, you know, the funny little anecdote that she talks about, but she has told me that the dojo has saved her life. And probably similar to me is, I don't know if she could separate, you know, who she is from her profit anymore. So, you're right, at some point, I think an impact was made. Early on, God knows, I made some serious mistakes, and you know, wasn't necessarily the best sensei that I could have been.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Can you share one of them? We don't get those stories very often. And because I'm always aware that we have people listening at very different parts of their journey. We have people who are contemplating opening a school right now. And they're terrified, because they don't want to make mistakes, because their instructor has never made a mistake in front of them, or at least, that they're aware of. And anybody who has opened a school knows that opening the school, usually the something about when, where, how, why one of those for at least one of them was a mistake. In my case, when I opened my school, I think at least two of them of the four was a mistake, but share, share, have a stake that some of those listeners might listen to and say, “Okay, if he can recover from that”.
Dave Ahrens:
If I had to put, like the number one thing that I think was the number one mistake, it was me, it was who I was, at the time, how strong is myself, how I saw my students, and I'll be honest, how I treated people as a 25-year-old owning a real job because I mean, the examples I had at the time were not necessarily good ones. You know, it was the holier than now you know, when I came up the holier than thou sensei and, you know, the brutality of martial arts was in the 80s. If you're not tough enough, you'll never make it in this dojo. And you know...
Jeremy Lesniak:
Very Cobra Kai.
Dave Ahrens:
So much, so much. And without a doubt, those early years, and I'm sure, I guarantee you that a bunch of students that didn't same train. It was probably because of me. So, I think the advice, looking back is, number one, don't take yourself too seriously. We're here to provide a service, and it's a service that matters. And don't let anybody ever tell you any different. Because I've had some people, you know, that are not martial artists say, well, what's the big deal, you're just teaching karate. And those of us that are in the martial arts, and have helped people and made a difference in people's lives and had an impact, we understand how much more important this is than just teaching karate. So, don't let people, don't let anybody make you believe that. But there's no need for an instructor to take themselves so seriously to, you know, put themselves on a pedestal to treat people in a way that, you know, would make them want to leave your school. And I don't think I did anything maliciously. It was just the way I went about things, the methods that I use to try to accomplish what I was trying to accomplish, and many of much of that may have been just inexperience. As a teacher, I mean, I don't have any formal teaching experience or education. But I think it was just mistakes that probably had to make it along the way for me. But unfortunately, I am. I don't know how many instructors would actually admit this, but I was probably responsible, as I'm sure many people are, when they start off, I was probably responsible with giving people a bad experience when it came to the martial arts early on. And, you know, for me, I'm an incredibly introspective person. So, I'm constantly now.
And I think I have always been looking at what I say and metering what I say and trying to find different, better ways to do what it is that I do. And I think that all those experiences of maybe damaging a student's potential growth made an impact on me. And, you know, one of the missions, I guess, that I've been on is just to improve as a teacher to improve as a man as a person to continually get better at what I do, while being, you know, a good person at the same time. My senior students that I mentioned before, they refer to me nowadays as the kinder and gentler sensor. Which speaks to kind of how I was in my 20s. And how did that feel the first time you heard them say that? It was only lead for, was it? Yeah, I think they said it, almost like to the other students, you don't know what we went through to get. You know, because you look at the black belts that I raised now. You know, I'm a better teacher, I believe. And I have way better methods I believe, than I used to have. So, I can make any changes, I can get the results that I want out of my students with better methods. So, I think those guys is having lived through the, quote, “difficult years”. I think they look back at it with nostalgia, honestly. But I think they also chuckle at. I think they understand and they know that I've gotten better at things and my ability to convey this information. It not just by yelling and being like you said very Cobra Kai of me. I think they look at it in a really positive way. I don't think it was set as a negative way. And I think nowadays they truly understand why it was necessary to change.
Jeremy Lesniak:
It sounds like there's some sensitivity in knowing that maybe your methods back then weren't ideal. Have you? You even brought this up as a not turning it into a therapy episode. But I think it's important for others to hear the answer this question. Have you forgiven yourself for that?
Dave Ahrens:
I believe so. Yeah. And the reason I think I'm capable, or was capable of doing that, is not one of those students that I've had, you know, hundreds or 1000s of students that I've had in 26 years, have ever come back to me, and ever had anything negative to say, I've seen so many of them. And what I get from them is, you know, I miss my train. I wish I hadn't stopped. I have such great memories of that time. You know, and then they reminisce about, you know, do you remember our time in the old dojo, and it's, everything I've gotten back over the years has been so positive. You know, if I ended up just, I know that I needed to grow. But I wonder if I was harder on myself than they would have been?
Jeremy Lesniak:
Probably, we usually are.
Dave Ahrens:
So, in order to answer the question, I definitely feel that I have forgiven myself for that. Because of what it is that I feel that, I do now, the service that I provide, not as a dojo owner, but as a Sensei, to me, those are two completely separate things. You know, and it can the feedback and the progress that I watch in my students and the growth and I think I've forgiven myself, and I think I have, in some way, redeemed those mistakes, which if I knew they were, if I knew I was going to make them, I wouldn't made them. But we don't have a time machine to go back, we can only do better for the future.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Let's talk about the future. Doesn't sound like you're going to stop training. This isn't like you're going to stop teaching. Doesn't sound like anything that that you've said suggests that your comment that you can't separate martial arts from, you know, the thing we talked about at the top is untrue. It is hard coded; it is wired in a way that people listening right now are nodding along to they get it. So how does that show up when we look 5,10,20 however many years down the road you want to go.
Dave Ahrens:
So, you know, thinking about that idea of looking into the future. I have to kind of look at people that have made impacts in my life. And that are my seniors, not just necessarily in rank, but in age and experience. And look to their examples. I want to name a couple people, you're one of the big things that changed in my life during the course of all those years of trolling and I was introduced to Sensei Doug Perry, who is probably the most influential martial artist in my life, without a doubt, you know, and to see the impact that he has made, he just celebrated his 84th birthday. To see the reach that he has as far as influence and when I say influence, I don't mean to change people but to help people and you know, the knowledge that he has and the abilities that he has. You know, it's something that I continue to chase after. And I love that journey. I just love that battle. And there are many along the way but he definitely stands out. But also, there's another individual that really is a major kind of influence in my life was [01:04:50-01:04:53] and he has a saying that he refers to as QTR which is quality time remaining. Looking at your life, he uses an example if you take out a tape measure, and you put your finger at I'm not sure what the average lifespan of a human is right now we're at 88 years old. And you put your other finger where your ages? And you look at what you have between those two? And what are you going to do with it? And that's the quality time remaining thing is, you know, what are we going to do with them. And for me, there's a few things that I feel a drive towards.
One is, of course, my dojo and my students and continued drive motivation to reach as many people as humanly possible to help as many people through I mean, if you look back at my story so far today, there's been things that I've had to overcome. And I think that, you know, Karate has been the thing that has gotten me through all of that. And knowing that there are people out there, everybody is battling with something. You know, whether it's anxiety or depression, or abuse or something that I thoroughly believe that karate, and not just karate, but martial arts in general, because to me, it doesn't matter. We're all heading in the same direction. I believe it can help. I believe that if everyone in the world did martial arts, the world would be a vastly different place. So, my goal is really to reach as many as possible. And I don't want that to sound like I have this great power to go out and help. I think all martial artists have this power to go out and help. I think it's part of what we do as martial artists, which is passed down what it is that was gifted to us. Yeah, we worked for it, but it's a gift. And I think that looking at what quality time, hopefully that I have remaining, you know, to try to help as many people as I can to touch as many people as I can in the way that martial arts had touched me. And hopefully give them give them something, just a piece even of what was given to me through this thing that we all love.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Well said, if people want to get a hold of you, how would they do that?
Dave Ahrens:
So probably the best way would be through Facebook, David Ahrens on Facebook. My website is my dojo website. It is eastcoastkarate.net. But there are email links and stuff on there as well. My email address is sensei@eastcoastkarate.net. But Facebook is probably the best way to get a hold of me.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Yeah, we'll link all that stuff in the show notes. Right? You went deep today. Thank you for that opportunity to have this kind of a conversation. One of the things I love about the show is that, you know, depending on where I'm at, and one of the guests is that just on those particular days, we have a certain kind of conversation. You and I could talk in an hour or tomorrow or next year and have a wholly different conversation.
Dave Ahrens:
Yeah, I was curious, you know, where the conversation was going to go. And you just never know.
Jeremy Lesniak:
You don't. And that's that to me. That's the fun. That's why after 607 episodes, six years plus, that's why it's still so engaging for me.
Dave Ahrens:
And I do want to say congratulations. That's an achievement and accomplishment. And I know you guys are doing really good work out there. And I just hope more and more people get turned on to it because I think the one thing that I liked the most about it is you know; you grow up in a dojo. You guys have talked about this in episodes before, where, I grew up in a CrossFit dojo, so karate is the best thing in the world or grew up in a Taekwondo dojo. So that's the best thing in the world. And, you know, you sit and you just listen to a few dozen episodes and you realize we're all the same. It doesn't matter what patches are uniform or you know what sign is above the door. And having these conversations really quantifies that as we're all brothers and sisters in this. Like I said at the top, quotable powerful.
Jeremy Lesniak:
A great story. Thank you, Kyoshi. Appreciate you coming on the show, had a great time. And yeah, let's talk again soon. I really do have the best job in the world, you guys, I can't say that enough. Now those of you listening, go to whistlekickmartialartsradio.com. Go check out all the stuff related to this episode, go look at the photos, go look the links, connect with the guests. Let them know you listen to the show. Let them know that you enjoy their episode that you got something from it. I hear from guests periodically that some of you will write to them and tell them about how the story they shared or the vulnerable moment that they contributed really meant a lot to you. And so, when you do that, it helps them feel better about their appearance, and makes them more likely to recommend other people to the show. It all contributes. So please be part of it. I appreciate that effort. And if you want to go even further and support what we do well, you've got choices. leave a review, buy a book on Amazon or don't forget the Patreon, patreon.com/whistlekick. And remember, we've got this incredible strength and conditioning program doesn't require any equipment. It's built just for martial artists. And it's not going to slow you down and uses the latest science and you know, I mean it myself. You know, I'm a thoughtful person. I research way too much. So go check that out at whistlekickprograms.com. You have guest suggestions or other feedback, let us know. Best way to do so is to email me directly, jeremy@ whistlekick.com. Our social media is @whistlekick. And that takes us to the end. So, until next time, train hard, smile and have a great day.