Episode 640 - Grandmaster Cynthia Rothrock
Grandmaster Cynthia Rothrock is a Martial Arts practitioner and actress. She is dubbed as the “Queen of Martial Arts Films.”
I looked at him and I said… You could probably find 50 twenty-year-olds but how many of my age can you see doing what I’m doing? And then the didn’t say anything… And I said, that’s why you’re not making money on any of your movies.
Grandmaster Cynthia Rothrock - Episode 640
For many of us here, our guest today needs no introduction. She is a high-level competitor, world champion, and actress with over 60 films under her belt. Grandmaster Cynthia Rothrock is an inspiration to women in martial arts. With over 100 competitions, Grandmaster Rothrock holds the undefeated worldwide record in martial arts Forms competition and weapons competition until she retired and ventured into making films.
In this episode, Grand Master Cynthia Rothrock talks about her beginnings and journey into the Martial Arts. Listen in and join the conversation!
Show Notes
Check out Grandmaster Cynthia Rothrock’s website at CynthiaRothrockOfficial.com
Show Transcript
You can read the transcript below.
Jeremy Lesniak:
What's up, everybody? Welcome. This is whistlekick Martial Arts Radio Episode 640. My guest today, Cynthia Rothrock. I'm Jeremy Lesniak, I'm your host here for the show, founder of whistlekick. And what do we do at whistlekick? Well, we do a whole bunch of stuff for people probably like you, people who love the traditional martial arts, if you want to see what that means, all the stuff we got going on, go to whistlekick.com, you're going to find a lot of stuff over there, our projects, our products, and one of the ways that we pay the bills for all this stuff is our store. If you find something in there that you like, whether it's a T-shirt, or sweatshirt, maybe some protective gear, we've got uniforms, we've got a bunch of different stuff, constantly changing. Use the code PODCAST15 to get yourself 15% off, and help us connect the dots that this show leads to some sales and we can track it all back. Now, if you want to go deeper on this or any other episode, go to whistlekickmartialartsradio.com, you're going to find a separate page over there for each and every episode we have ever done. None of this is behind a paywall. And you're going to find on each of those pages, transcripts, and links and photos and videos and whatever else is going to give you more context for the show. Now, if you like what we do, if it means something to you consider supporting us in some way, whether that's telling friends about what we do, or checking out one of the things you can buy, like, you know, some gear or shirt, or one of our books on Amazon, or, you know, we've also got a Patreon, patreon.com/whistlekick. If you like what we do, you're probably going to like what we do at Patreon, because we do other stuff, exclusive stuff, stuff you're not going to find anywhere else, behind the scenes on this show, and so much more. Start to two bucks a month. And the more you're willing to plunk down the more we're going to give you so check it out.
For many of you out there, today's guest needs no introduction, with over 60 movies under her belt, a competitive career that few if anyone honestly has ever achieved, and recognition in the arts for being just an incredible practitioner, Cynthia Rothrock. Grandmaster Cynthia Rothrock is someone that I've been looking forward to having on the show for a very long time. I could say more, but I'm not going to. So, here's our conversation. First of all, thanks for doing this. Thanks for coming on.
Cynthia Rothrock:
Oh, well, thanks for bearing with me with all my stuff.
Jeremy Lesniak:
You have a lot going on.
Cynthia Rothrock:
Oh, man, I know. Always right. It's always something.
Jeremy Lesniak:
There is always something and that's... But I mean, isn't that part of what martial arts conditions us work gives us a toolbox to reach into and persist?
Cynthia Rothrock:
Yep, absolutely. It gets stronger and stronger no matter what. You got to keep going.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Yes. That's right. We got to keep going. Yeah, well, then we're going to play from moment zero, where the audience, okay, and we don't need to add it. We're just going to do it. We're going to do now. We're eventually going to deviate off, but I like to have a little bit of context to kind of launch from for me as an interviewer. This is kind of my Launchpad. Sure, it's a question. I'm sure you've answered a whole bunch of times, and I'm promise it's going to start to shift and melt from there. So, let's just get that one out of the way. And that is, how do you get started?
Cynthia Rothrock:
Well, I got started, when I was 13 years old, and my girlfriend's parents were studying Tang Soo Do at the Scranton karate school. And they owned a health club. And we would go down on Sunday when the club was closed, and my friend and I would do cartwheels and rolls and try to play out in the big open carpet area. And then they would come and start practicing their techniques. And I was infatuated with it. Like, what is that? I never seen anything like it, never saw the uniforms. And I thought, oh, my gosh, learning how to defend yourself with your hands and feet. I said, I want to try that. So, I went home and told my mom, I said, I want to sign up in karate.
Jeremy Lesniak:
What did she say? Because that, you know, back then, and I don't want to put too fine a point on any of this. Very few people were training. And the perception, at least from my understanding was that it wasn't always well received.
Cynthia Rothrock:
Well, you know, back then, there weren't too many schools. It was one of the few nobody really knew what it was. It was kind of a fallacy that you had to be a big, strong man to take karate. And my mom had no idea what it was, you know, she was used to me. I've always been kind of an out of the box kind of person. Anything that was unusual or different. That's what I wanted to do. And this to me was really unusual. So, you know, I did a lot of things. I did heighted baton, I did music, I did dance, I did different musical instruments, and my mom was just used to me like trying all these different things. And when we went to sign up, I had to sign up for four months. So, my mom was like, okay, you're committed for four months? Because she was used to be going, oh, yeah, try it. I don't like it. Okay, I don't like it. And I like it. You know, I remember taking guitar lessons at a young age and my fingers were being so sore that I couldn't even press in the you know, with calluses. And they were bleeding, like just pressing in on the string. So, you know, my mom was kind of kind of used to me doing all kinds of crazy things. And, you know, she just said, okay, we could try it.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Over the years of doing this show, I've found that the guests have generally have a pretty solid memory for their initial entrance into martial arts. And so, let's test if that holds true for you here. Were you at all intimidated about this four-month commitment? Were you going into it thinking, you know, if I don't like it, I'll just wander away. And I'll deal with that with my mother later, or was there something about it, you said, you know, this feels different.
Cynthia Rothrock:
I was excited to do something different. And when I went in there, my friend's parents were not in the class. So, I didn't know anybody. I'm a young girl. And there's all like men in the class. And I had one woman there, that was a black belt, and she was there. And she would didn't really like another woman being in the class. And she tried to scare me, I'm never on my second class. My instructor paired me up to spar with her, I had no idea with how to spar, it was my second class, and she hit me in the head with a roundhouse kick almost knocked me out. And I was like, ah, gosh, I don't know if I like this. And my instructor called me in the office, he says, yeah, you don't block with your head” then on my next glass, someone tried to have me break a board with the front kick, because they just learned how to do a front kick. And I didn't know how to pull my toes back. Well, of course, I hit and it was a small bore, too. It was one that was already broken. And you know that's much harder to break that a full board. And I thought I broke my toe. And then again, we were doing push-ups and shouting. And I was very intimidated. I was intimidated, and I did not want to continue. And I went home and I told my mom, I said, “I don't like this”, you know, there was nothing good about it at the time, I just kept getting hurt and hurt and hurt. And my mother said, “You know what, I have to pay for four months, you're going” and so I went, you know, my mom would take me it was kind of like, you know, the old scenario where the parents dragged him off to music lessons, dance lessons.
And it was about two months into training. And we were sitting there, and we were getting ready, we had stripes in and I was going for my black belt strike. You know, you didn't have to test but it was like, an achievement thing, a morale boost for you. And my instructor gave a talk and he said, losers are quitters. And if you're not good, it's your fault. Because you have a bad attitude. And you have to change your attitude. And he just gave this talk that I felt was directly to me. And I thought, you know what? I could never get that form basic one, I couldn't get that turn. And I said, you know, I have a bad attitude. I hate push-ups. I, you know, I'm intimidated in this class. It's all man. And I said, you know, I have to do it for four months. So, you know what, I was embarrassed at this talk, although we never mentioned my name, but I just felt it was dear to me. So, I'm going to start practicing. I'm going to change my attitude. So, I started thinking, yeah, I hate pushes. But you know what, really good for my body, and they're really going to make me stronger. And then I started getting better. And I kept practicing that move and basic one. And finally, I got it. And then I started saying, hey, I could show in class, you know, I was afraid to shout this little girl, with all these guys shouting, and I just built up my confidence. And you know, it's a lesson that I have learned for the rest of my life, from that moment, is that you don't give up because things are hard. You know? And I think my mom because you know, you always say, it wasn't for my parents, I would be where I am today. Well, that's true. Because being a young girl, and so intimidated, I would have quit
Jeremy Lesniak:
That moment that speech from your instructors, sounds pretty pivotal. And one of those moments that I would imagine on your martial arts journey, we could put a pin in and say, you know, this is a marked transition between where you were in and where you went. But there's another piece in there. And that's you having the ability, the consciousness to receive that speech in the right way. Where did that come from what you know, as a 13-year-old girl, what you're describing doesn't sound typical. I'd known 13-year-old girls, I've known a number Have them in various contexts. And I don't think any of them would have heard that speech and said, you know what? I'm all in.
Cynthia Rothrock:
I know, it just sunk into my mind, you know, and I think that I'm a strong believer in faith. And I think that, you know, well, I know, I don't think I know that martial arts have been my life's journey, and I'm doing what I'm supposed to do. And I think it just clicked into me. And, you know, when I was five and a half months training, I was already an orange belt, and I skipped. I went from orange belt, to orange Belt, one stripe, right, which was unheard of at that time is to skip a stripe. And because of that, when I started feeling, I was getting better, it fired my training to keep going and I am going to get good at this. And I really love this, and I love push-ups now, right? And I entered a competition. And at that time, you know, we're talking about like the late 70s, mid 70s, actually, and we're talking about competition, it was just women, they didn't have any.
So, if you were white belt, or if you were, you know, a grandmaster, you are in one division women. And I took second place of black belt, took first and actually the black belts from my school that hit me in the head to third. And I took second. And I was like, “Oh my gosh, I'm only an orange belt”. I've only been training for five and a half months. And I beat black belts. And I said, that fired me up to say, you know what, I am going to train because I want to be the best in martial arts. And I can do this. And from that day on, I went from two times a week to go and four times a week and training, just with a passion with a fury is that you know, I am going to excel in this, you know, in this martial art.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Any follow up from beating your, let's call her, your rival?
Cynthia Rothrock:
Well, yes, because I did not spar her until I was a red belt. Again, my instructor never had me spar her. Let's just say payback time.
Jeremy Lesniak:
I like it. Like, I'm guessing there's no video of this. Is there?
Cynthia Rothrock:
No, I mean, I wish because back then, you know, everybody, we had like this, the super eight like cameras where you have like the film and stuff like that wasn't easy. Like, maybe you have your phones like today, but I wish I have pictures. I have pictures of training. And I remember, you know, we're talking about old school training we're not talking about today where you know, instructors are really watching out for the students. We're talking about an error that if you couldn't hang in there, you were out of there, they didn't care. It wasn't a business. You know, it was like the instructors were doing this part time and it was all about you can't hang with us. And I remember when I was getting ready to test for my black belts, they brought three Koreans over from Korea. And they came into our school for three weeks. And they said, “Yeah, your students are good, but they don't know how to fight.
And for three weeks fighting every single day, and this was like brutal. This is like throw a spinning wheel kick and you knew your other leg was getting knocked out. And I would go home with bruises and I couldn't walk and I was limping. And my mom was like, you need to quit. I'm like, “No, no, no”. And I remember my instructor told me that if they didn't like someone in the school, they would beat them up. So, they would quit. And I was like, “Are you trying to make me quit?” He's like, “No, no, no”. But lesson learned. From that day on. I used to spar at that time in competition, I was never afraid to spar another woman again, because I knew that they were not going to hurt me and hit me as hard as the Koreans did, because they didn't care if you were a young girl or whatever, you were going to be a good fighter.
Jeremy Lesniak:
So, we have almost this this complete 180 with this other woman who tried to kick you out, push you away. And I would imagine that, you know, especially at that age, you know, you felt that the weight of that was on you. And then you go ahead and you defeat her in competition. You go on to exact your revenge. And you know, we can look at that in kind of the playful way that it is, but at the same time, there's some pretty substantial growth, personal growth in facing that obstacle which happened to be that person and overcoming it and just some of the words you're choosing. Tell me that was another really pivotal moment in your training?
Cynthia Rothrock:
Oh, absolutely. After I became a black belt, you know, I started teaching and you know, you just realize that if you're a black belt and you're sparring a white belt for this second Class, there's no way you're going to hit them in the head, you know, you just don't do that. You should have the control, you should have the respect, you know. So, I guess I think that's what always was in my head is that I had no clue what I was doing. And that was totally uncalled for, you know? Because to me, if you're a black belt, you have to have control and focus, then you do not like your beginning students. Debate it's a bad business model. Well, it almost worked because I almost quit.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Let's talk about competition a little further, though. A lot of the folks who are listening right now know you from your competitive career, which I believe is kind of the launch pad. But the way you talked about competition and getting into competition will take us back. What was that first event? Like? Were you excited, nervous? Something else, more than one ticket for that journey?
Cynthia Rothrock:
Well, I was always nervous, even when I was competing professionally, and I was undefeated five years, I was always nervous before I competed, I would go there and I wouldn't be able to eat and I'd be running the bathroom 100 times and I couldn't talk to anybody. And I would just constantly be going over my forearms, my weapons in my head, like over and over. And over the night before I would compete, I would have thought my routine was have a big pasta meal, lots of carbs, and go to bed thinking of your form, you know. And then the minute I got on the floor to start, everything went away, all the nerves went away, the confidence went away. And it was a different thing. But I've always got nervous. You know, a lot of people say to me, you know, I get nervous. Uh, yeah, I said that's kind of good, because, you know, builds up your adrenaline and it just makes you stronger. So, I've never lost that to any competition. I've never feeling nervous before. And I just when I won that I started going to a lot of competitions. I remember fighting black belts for the first time. And I was lightweight. And then they had heavyweight. And everybody was saying she was going to kill me. And they were like, scaring me. I was so nervous. And I remember I was in the bathroom and so nervous again, right? Because I'm in the Grand Champion finals fighting, right? First-time black belt. And I heard these girls saying, “Oh, yeah, the girl's name was [00:17:16-00:17:17]. Then I kill her. Oh my god, right? And I'm like, all right. But what happened is they got my adrenaline up so much. And we go to spar and within like three seconds, she hits me in the face with backfist. Right.
Now at this time, we didn't have safety equipment. And it was contact, not full contact, but you had to make pretty hard contact, you know, to get a point. And I got embarrassed. Oh my gosh, it was like only three seconds, you got me. And then all of a sudden, something came over me. And I remember I just got this fury and I was throwing my kicks at her. And I ended up winning the match, you know, against her. But I got so confident that I remember, I even did a jumping front kick and I'm like, who does a jumping front kick, you're sparring. But that, you know, that was competition for me. And I just competed everywhere. In the Eastern Region 10 states for karate illustrated. I became number one in that area. And then I went to a tournament New Jersey it was an A rated tournament. And it actually held like the Playboy Club or something was a Playboy Club tournament, but was in a raid a tournament. And I took first place there. And everybody was coming up to me going, who are you? Oh my god, you know, you bet the woman that's number one. And you need to compete professionally.
And I met George Chung there. And Ernie Ray is the West Coast demonstration team. And they invited me to go out to California and compete out there. But because of them and their inspiration, I ended up moving to California, competing in all the professional competitions for five years, because that was my goal. I want it to be undefeated for five years. And that's like competing in over 100 tournaments. That's not like just five times, right? And then retire. And I set that goal. And I made it. And the last tournament I did was a 1985 the Bermuda internationals, I won that. And then at the same time, I got an offer to do a movie. So, my career shifted. It went from being a martial art instructor to a competitor to now going into movies. So, I just feel like I was on the right path the way you know my life was supposed to be to help people to inspire people and to be the best that I could be.
Jeremy Lesniak:
We're definitely going to talk about the movies because, you know, just as I know a lot of people listening know you from competition even more know you from your time on screen. But I want to unpack that goal, 100 competitions.
Cynthia Rothrock:
Yeah.
Jeremy Lesniak:
So, it's like five years on a big goal. And so, people today, you know, not everyone follows a circuit with points open so people may not remember what that was like. I started doing competitions in the 90s. You know, I was chasing points, and one could suffer a loss you can get Second, you could get Third and still be way out in front. In rankings. But that's not what your goal was. Your goal wasn't I'm going to be ranked first for five years. It was I'm going to go undefeated. We're talking about forms. We're talking about forms, undefeated. Five years. 100-ish competitions. Yeah, that's a big reach. Now, obviously, you did it. So, you weren't reaching too far. But there's a lot, there's something in here for all of us. If you can dig into the where and why that goal came from?
Cynthia Rothrock:
Well, I'll tell you what, it was hard. It was a very challenging goal for me, because for those five years, all I did is train and train, I would train at least eight hours a day, I would win a competition, I would come back and continue training. I went to mainland China and studied in Chengdu in 1982, when Americans had a really hard time to get into China. I remember training in Chengdu and I would attract crowds, because they've never seen blue eyes in there. And then my friend who was African American, they never saw an African American. And we would like attract like these people like because they were like we were like aliens coming from another planet. Because, you know, China was not open to people. Then I went there and studied for eight weeks I studied in Taiwan, I studied in Hong Kong prayer, I just kept going, I have to be better, I have to be better, I have to be better.
And I know like some people would like they'd win their division and they go, “Okay, I could rest now”. But I want and I would just get to train harder. And the more I went, as the years went by, the more pressure it became because everybody was trying to beat Cynthia Rothrock. Right. And it got to the point like after three years, I'm like, “Oh my gosh, if I got beaten that would be embarrassing for me. because it'd be big news”, you know. So, I kept making my routines more difficult and harder. And then the harder they got, it was like something like, doesn't matter how good you are, if you're doing this extreme, balanced movement. And I don't know if you remember, but back in the day, they had tarps on the floors for this event, that if you're on a big wrinkle on the tarp, you could lose your balance. So, I mean, it was a big pressure for me.
So, I kind of I had a love hate when I retired. I wanted to keep going but also, I was kind of glad that I did this and now it's time to move on, you know to go but I tell you when you put a goal like that, I didn't do anything else. I did some ballet. I did gymnastics. I did anything that I felt would help my martial arts but I wouldn't go skiing, I wouldn't go hiking. I wouldn't tour. If I went to a city, I was looking for a martial arts school to train you know, I literally could say for those five years, I ate, drank and slept. Martial Arts is the word obsessed. A fair word. I want to say it's obsessed. I think it was determination. It was determination to get that goal that I achieved for myself and that I was working, working so hard. It was my love. Martial Arts, which I love. I love training. I love practicing. I love getting stronger. I love getting faster. I loved you know, challenging myself and more difficult movements. You know, I wouldn't say it's obsessed. I would just say it was my passion.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Passion, determination. Anyone who's ever set a lofty goal and achieved it knows that you kind of have to do that. You can't set a big goal and just sit on your butt and expect it to happen. It doesn't work that way. Yeah, absolutely. And you talked a little bit about the things that you didn't do. What I'm curious about is how this approach to this goal, this passion and determination were received by you talked about your mom and her very perspective on your training initially for maybe a little less. So, once it got a little rougher. But you talked about some of these people who were your inspiration, your motivation. You didn't use those words. But what did these people around you think of your drive?
Cynthia Rothrock:
Hmm, that's a good question. My parents were very proud. I've never... I brought my first trophy home. My mom was so proud. And then there was like, 10. And then there was 20. And now there's like 100. And now they're moved up into the attic. And just like recently, I had to go back to my mom, because my mom passed away. And I had to go back and clear out the trophies. I had over 1000 trophies in my mom's shed that's been there since the 70s. You know, because this is all prior to me moving to California in 1981. I moved to California then, and I didn't come back. I stayed there. And it was I think they were very well. I don't think they were extremely proud of me. And I remember when I was on the cover of Karate illustrated, that was a big step, because we're not. Oh, Barton was the editor. And he wanted to put me on and he was told that women do not sell as the complete cover. And he fought for me. And I got on the cover. And I've never my dad, like going down to the local magazine store and buying them out. And he's gone. This is my daughter. They actually never really saw me compete. Because when I was competing locally, I would just go and do it myself. And then when I was doing all the professional ones, my dad did come to one professional tournament, and it was in New Jersey. And he was so excited to be there. And I was so excited that my dad was going to be there. And the guy was a crook. The guy ran off with all the money and that was oh my god. So yeah, so it was crazy. They never got, you know, to see me really compete.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Wow. Okay. Now the step in the movies. It sounds like that was pretty quickly after this five-year run. Was that something you had your eye on?
Cynthia Rothrock:
I know, it wasn't, you know, I'll tell you. I started training with Chung Leon in New York City. So, every Sunday, I would go drive three hours to New York train all day. And then my teacher would take us to Chinatown and go see Hong Kong movie and have dinner and then I would drive back every Sunday. I did that for years and years. Well, then I became accustomed to Hong Kong movies, and I love Jackie Chan. And I would come home. And I would practice the movements that I see Jackie Chan doing like a Snake in the Monkey Shadow and all that stuff. And I love the fact that he would take implements, like a telephone and use it as a weapon. And then just practice that. And I just loved the movies, but I never really thought I would be in movies. And I never really had an aspiration to be an actor. I just loved them. And then when I moved to the west coast, I was on the West Coast demonstration team and we performed like, at every, you know, competition, and is one of the first I think actually that I know of demonstration teams, you know, it only raised brought it out with music and laughter and everybody on the team was excellent. Well, [00:28:17-00:27:30] Kung Fu, and he hears that, you know, that Korean famous Hong Kong director is coming to audition for a new Bruce Lee, they were looking for a guide. It'd be like the next Bruce Lee.
So, he called Ernie Reyes in Georgetown. And they said, we'll bring the guys. What about the girls? And they said, Yeah, yeah, you can bring them but you know, we're really looking for a guy. So, we all you know, went down to Los Angeles and never [00:28:46-00:28:47] and there were like, 1000 martial artists there. And now it's my turn and Korean was there and I had to do some form. I did some self-defense. I did some free sparring and I did my double hook sword form in my weapons, and I remember hooking the two hooks together. And he chose studio was like kind of low on the ceiling. And I've never my hooks hit the ceiling and all this plasters like coming down on top of me. I'm thinking, oh my gosh. Well, then Korean, goes back to seasonal films we were casting for and he says, I want the girl. I want the girl. I don't want a guy. And that's how it started. They cast me into it. And I always have learned a lesson from that to that. I tell my people is that, you know, sometimes, like if you want to do film or whatever, and you they're looking for someone else, but you go in there and you do your best you can change their minds, you know.
And it brings me my daughter when she was, she was like, four. They were doing a play at her school and it was the Alice in Wonderland. And she was very talented even at that young age and in her acting teachers wanted her to go out for Alice and she said, “Now I want to be the queen of hearts”. And they're like Cynthia, you know, she'd be great for Alice. But the Queen of Hearts, you know, it's like, We're an eighth grader. And she said, “No, I'm going to do it”. So, she went out. And I tried to. I was thinking of it. And I said, “Okay”, and I was trying to do like the Austin Powers the mini me thing. And I was like, trying to get her to put the little finger by her mouth, she has no clue who is in power. But anyway, she goes in, and she just kicks it out of the ballpark. And they ended up casting her as the mini me Queen that mocked the Queen of Hearts. So, I mean, if it wasn't for her determination, she would not have got the power. She wants it, you know, but that's what she wanted to do in London. So, I'm like, you know, you can change people's perceptions. If you're in the acting, just go in with confidence and faith and do your best.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Those early days acting, you know, you talked about how on the competition floor, you never shed the nerves of getting out there different when you were on the floor, which I can actually relate to completely. But that leads up to it. Was it the same thing? With movies? Were you nervous running choreography in lines, but once the cameras were on it all fell away.
Cynthia Rothrock:
Not once I started before, I did the movie, I was nervous. Here I am. I'm on a plane. I'm going to Hong Kong. I'm doing a movie. All I know is Chinese movies. I'm thinking they're going to have me dressed in Chinese outfit. I'm going to have black braids with razor blades in. I'm going to be spinning my head around. I'm going to Han's Island. Enter the Dragon you know. I have no clue what to expect. I know nobody there. I'm on myself. Never did you know, never did a movie right? So, I get out there. And they go oh, and nobody really spoke English except the one producer Amy Chen, [00:31:56-00:31:59]. And she goes “No, you're going to play Cindy, a cop from England”. And I was extremely nervous before I shot because I never shot. I didn't know people. But you know, I think it's still like that if I'm doing a new movie. I'm always nervous on the first day. And then once you get in there and you get the jitters out and then you get calm then I was good. Like the next day, you know, from that point on but it's funny, like always, like a first. I still get that nervousness, you know, and whether it was competition or starting a new movie on the first day shoot.
Jeremy Lesniak:
You're nervous about things you care about it. I've coached a number of competitors over the years and they're coming on, Jeremy. I'm really nervous. Well, that shows what you're about to do matters to you. If you weren't nervous, then I would wonder if you actually cared.
Cynthia Rothrock:
Yeah, that's a good point. I mean, test me if I would love to have nothing. But just how it goes, you know how my system like body works.
Jeremy Lesniak:
What was the rest of that experience of that first film? Like clearly coming out of it? You enjoyed it well enough, because you went on to do you know, a few more.
Cynthia Rothrock:
Yeah, yeah. You know, it was tough. It was really tough. Ko-ryū and put Michelle Yeoh and I, our first movie. Yes, I'm like, through the ringer and I didn't know anything about filming. So, I had short sleeves on. And I was like, beat up. And I remember there was one scene that both of us were so black and blue. He had to cut it out. Because we were flinching every time. It hit us. It was a movie that was supposed to be four months, it went eight and a half months. I was eight and a half months in Hong Kong. Just the ending fight scene was taking one month to do it. And it was dangerous. It was hard. But, you know, I just said, “you know what, I'm going to try my best and do what I can do”. And I'm not going to be afraid and I'm going to challenge myself and I think that's kind of even today. You know that you know, I still do movies here and there and stuff, but I got into extreme adventure. You know where I have checked to Everest Base camp. You know, I did Inca Trail, I did Patagonia, the W Trek.
I mean, I like to challenge myself physically. And that's kind of how my new challenges gone into extreme adventures. So, I think I didn't know this. I didn't know about this with you. Oh, I think this started. Well, let's see. When I had my daughter in 1999 and we started traveling places together. And then she became sixth grade 12. She was in trouble. So, I enjoyed traveling, I enjoyed doing all the adventures. So, I started booking adventure trips, and I went to New Zealand for one month and I did you know, the most extreme whitewater rafting. The highest commercial waterfall you could go down, my fear was I was going to tip over. And that's exactly what happened, tipped over under the falls, right. But again, I was glad I did that, because I realized that, hey, there's some air underneath the underneath the raft. And all you have to do is get out of the rushing water, put your head underneath and go and you'll be fine. The idea is not to panic.
And from that point on, I was doing one a year to two years to three years you know, and even now, I was supposed to trek the ELP from all across Italy in September 3. Unfortunately, I got pneumonia, bacterial pneumonia, from who knows where from one of my travels are just coming back from an event where there are a lot of people, you know, and I had to cancel it and I'm kind of disappointed. But, you know, I will do that. But also, when COVID happened, I didn't work for like a year and a half. And I'm used to being traveling more than I'm home, whether it's for work or adventure, and I started a scuba diving. And I said, “you know what, I can do that here. It's not around a lot of people. And I have found that is another passion of mine. And I got certified in December. And right now, I have 103 days. I find that when I find something I really just seek it, like with a passion and just you know. So that's kind of what I love doing now. And hopefully I get back. I teach seminars around the world. And that's another thing. I love teaching. And a lot of times people that they don't know me, they just know me as an actor. They don't know that. Yes, I'm an eighth degree, black belt, and I love teaching and they'll go oh my god, wow, she's really cheap guy. So yeah, so that's kind of you know what I'm doing now.
Jeremy Lesniak:
If we had to draw a line between martial arts training, and movies, and the adventures, the obvious connection is challenge. One could make the argument that you've been training long enough that the challenge is a little different. Now you have to kind of invent, I would imagine your own challenges to stay challenge with the movies. You've done enough of them that if you're going to be challenged in a movie, it's because you're picking a role that maybe isn't quite what you've done before. And so, the adventures. Now, the reason I'm structuring this very complex question, is because I think there's something underneath here and I want to kind of take away that easy answer of “Oh, they're all challenging”. What do they have in common? What is it about you that these things that you gravitate towards?
Cynthia Rothrock:
You know? That's a good question. I think I like overcoming obstacles, because I have a fear of heights. But yeah, I bungee, I skydive, I went very high off of a raft over rapids. I think I like the adrenaline rush. You know, like in competition. I have that adrenaline rush before, you know, adventure movies. I think when I do movies, I love doing it, it's a fun job for me. I guess a lot of the film roles I've done haven't been challenging. Some of the more which I love. You know, when I played like in Florida justice, you know, a psychologist and had to learn all this. These different terms are Santa’s Summerhouse and I played Mrs. Claus. You know, I love that. But a lot of the films were like just the you know, Cynthia Rothrock, girl next door and the cop, you know, fight through this and that, you know, so that just kind of was up my alley. I think the more challenging thing was more in like the competition and not only just the competition, it was weapons. You know, I loved weapons.
I would want to do like I've never liked doing the double steel whips and getting them tangled and get hit in the head with a spear or doing my three sectional staff and myself in the shins or, you know, many times my weapon of competition was the [00:39:58-00:40:00]. You know, just walking into a competition of my bookstores and having them down by my side and the hook blade that was so sharp hitting my pants and cutting me, you know, blood running down my legs. And I think I'm just, you know, I'm a different person and I seek challenge and I seek adventure. And it's not that I just challenge myself, I love it. I mean, I love being in nature. I love that when I'm hiking, I'm at peace, when I'm under the water scuba diving on in a different world, like, “Oh, my gosh, look at this world that's so different” that I never would have known existed, I wouldn't have known that these different, awesome marine life existed, you know, and I think if I had to say, it's just my thirst for life, just to do the things I really like to do. I'm at a stage now where I love doing movies. I've done over 60. And I'd love to continue doing them. But right now, I feel like I really want to give back to people.
I think we get in a life, you know, where it's assessed, focus, focus, focus, and now, you know, trying to do things humanitarian, not trying to one of the things I tried to do.I'm very popular on Facebook, and I talked to everybody and I have a lot of followers, and I just try to be positive and uplift people. And I get a lot of people that, you know, message me that they're depressed or this and that, and I feel like I can help people out that way. When I was doing martial arts, movies, I felt that well, too, because I remember, like, women would say, oh, my gosh, and men to men, not just women, you know, I started martial arts, because I saw you doing films. And that, to me, is something that I think makes it all worth it that I got through movies or through theming, and competition or whatever brought people into martial arts, because I really do have a passion that everyone should learn some type of martial arts, not if you want to compete or do movies or whatever, but it's just the, to me the best thing in the world a person can do for themselves. Gets you in great shape, but at the same time, you can defend yourself, and maybe you could defend someone else. And if that happens, that's priceless.
Jeremy Lesniak:
I couldn't agree more. Now that the dots that you laid out, I want to connect them, I want to guess something about you. This didn't come through in your words, but it's what I'm taking from it. When someone tells you, you can't do something, what's your response?
Cynthia Rothrock:
I'll do it.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Yeah, that's... See, and that was my guess what I heard out of those things out of the stories you've given is a very quiet rebelliousness.
Cynthia Rothrock:
Yeah, I think so. I think I'm such an adamant person and about like people about like, age, you know, like, oh, age, oh, this and like, to me, that's not in my vocabulary. And, you know, when I was trekking up to Everest, about the third day, my knee blew out. I couldn't even walk. And luckily, I met this amazing doctor there that did acupuncture, and I was able to do everything on sticks. But my guide said to my friend that was doing the trip with me. “Oh, she might have to go back” and he said, “If I know her, she'll crawl up the mountain, she has to, like my attitude”. And I remember, you know, I was in [00:43:40-00:43:41] with my friend Vincent. And we were on these high cliffs, and he jumped in and I had a dress on. He's like, “come on in” and remember again, I have that fear of heights, right? And I have a dress on and I was like, “Oh, I didn't want to get all wet”. My hair and makeup are going to do all this stuff. But he dared me then. “Oh, you dared me”. And then I jumped in. So, I think yeah, I don't like it. Yeah, people say you can't do something. I really, I really don't. Because if there's a difference, like do you want to or just say you can't, you know, I think anybody could do anything. To the best of their abilities if you put your mind to it.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Hmm. I agree. Where else has that? Let's call it rebellious. This is called what it is. Where else has that surfaced? And has it ever backfired? Is it bit you?
Cynthia Rothrock:
Has it hit me? I'm sure, probably. I can't think of it right now. But I'm sure it has. I mean life is not like what is this a bowl of cherries like everybody has their ups and downs and everybody has stress. Everybody has bad things happen in their life. You know, it's just like how we deal with it, I try to stay pretty positive, I try not to let negative influences or, you know, you get haters out there. But once in a while, you know, I'll go off on someone, I have a couple pet peeves. Like, if someone challenges my martial art ability, I have to say something, you know.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Can we unpack that? Let me see why. Because this is not a subject we generally get into. We're in a very weird time martial arts wise, because we are so connected. And that with the layer, this tone that's come out of canceled culture, people look for everything. They can tear each other apart for and let's face it, as martial artists, we were kind of known for doing that to each other already. And it's gotten really bad as a public figure, one of the probably best-known martial artists in the West, but for sure, I would imagine you attract a lot of that. And yeah, you can point at your competitive career, you can point to any movies, you have all kinds of things you can point to and say, yeah, I've done my thing. I know what I'm doing. And you could just ignore it all. But it gets you riled up probably in a similar way to it gets me riled up. Could you talk about why, and how you address and how you reconcile that with the same positive that you feel strong?
Cynthia Rothrock:
Right, like, you know, I think in general, most people are pretty positive, but you do have people out there that live in negativity, and whether they're unhappy with their life, or they're jealous of other people's, you know, happiness or positivity, and then they just come after you, and I just tried to say, why are you living in negativity, it's got to make you feel worse, or whatever. And usually what happens is, I will kind of shame them in a way and then they come back the day they go away, or they say, “Oh, well, I'm sorry, I just did, you know, whatever”. But I try not to get into that, because like I said, I don't like negative, but sometimes you just get pulled into it. You know, a lot of times people will say something, and I'll be like, who they talking about, like you're like me, why me? Who doesn't like me, and now I'm like, I mean, I really feel like people that have said bad things about me or whatever, because of their whatever reasons. When I see them, I'm still nice, “Hey, how you doing?” or whatever, you know, I just like, you don't have time for all that. But you know, it happens to everybody, not just me, it happens, it happens. I see it, you know, to all my friends, it happens to everybody that there's just some people out there that go after you.
Jeremy Lesniak:
You've mentioned your friends, you've named dropped some pretty big names in the martial arts, I would imagine met worked with trained with pretty much anybody that we could mention. So instead of, you know, spending the next 10 minutes on the list. Are there any stories that are favorites of yours that you might be willing to share?
Cynthia Rothrock:
Like what like stories have lots of stories?
Jeremy Lesniak:
Oh, I know what the client is, the stories that our audience seems to appreciate the most aren't the ones that are the big and the flashy, and the dramatic, it's the ones that mean a lot to whoever's presenting them. So a moment, it could be a moment, it could be a meal, it could be something with, you know, hopefully somebody that many of us have heard of that. We wouldn't have heard that story before, you know, kind of a behind the scenes and the life of Cynthia Rothrock.
Cynthia Rothrock:
I've had so many near death situations filming in Hong Kong. I was going to get killed, like from doing extremely dangerous stunts and doing them. And I remember like, every time there was one and then they're just up at the next time and I'd go “Oh, I think this is going to be my last one”. And then I do the movie and I know I got hurt on everyone. Just like Jackie Chan. That's just how now Hong Kong filming is. But then you'd heal and you'd see the film and you'd be “Oh my god. What's my next one?”. I have a lot a lot that kind of stories but I think one that I'm like really proud of is that Arnold Schwarzenegger and Dr. Bob Goldman have the International Sports Hall of Fame, which is football players, you know, A-listed actors, you know, top bodybuilders. The top of the top whether it's track, Olympians. And I think it was in 2014, I was the first-person martial artists, male or female inducted into the International Sports Hall of Fame. And I was very honored, I'm in a lot of Hall of Fame's.
And they all mean a lot to me, but this one was particular because I felt like, “wow, I am representing everybody in martial arts”. Not just like the women, you know, the very first person to be inducted into the probably most prestigious Hall of Fame, like black belt Hall of Fame to do that, so that was a memory of point that I always cherish and not so much for me, but just for, I like to uplift women too. And, you know, overcoming the problems that women have, like, you know, getting involved in action film, or, like I said, being on the cover of a magazine, you know, or whatever. I just like, throughout my whole life, like when I first started doing some of my movies in the US, I was always the partner, and then the guy had to come in and save the day, you know, because like, “Oh, no, no, no, the woman can't do that”. But just changing the world, changing the perception of powerful strong women, you know, so that's kind of a lot that I tried to do right now is try to uplift women.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Is that changing? I know, it's changed for you personally. But for women in the industry?
Cynthia Rothrock:
I think it's changing. Definitely, you know, more women are getting involved. More women are, you know, to me, because I came up in an industry that was male dominated, I never trained or felt like, on the woman, you know, take care of me this and that I was kind of like, always felt as an equal. You know, and I think women are feeling that. Right now. You know, there's so many more women involved in martial arts and stunts and acting. You know, that is changing. But, you know, there's still things that you deal with, like, right now, I remember. I remember I told you, I have this age thing. And I'm an advocate that, truly, truly age is just a number. And it's how you feel and how healthy you are, and how you take care of yourself, and what's your mental attitude. But I remember I was meeting with this Chinese director, and he's like, “Oh, I love you”. And that ended and he said to me, “I wish I could find a 20-year-old like you”. And I looked at him, and I said, “you could probably find, like, 15/20-year Olds”, I said, “that's why you're not making money on any of your movies. But how many my age can you see what I'm doing?” And then he didn't say anything, you know, so I think, you know, women deal with a lot not only, you know, it's also an age thing, and I think, you know, strong advocate that's not like a pet peeve of mine. It's like, you know, that shouldn't be.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Right. Right. I agree. I agree. There's something to be said, for Hollywood and the marketability. You know, it seems like it just keeps going up for men. I mean, look at The Expendables you know, let's, let's collect a bunch of action stars who, for I'm looking for diplomatic words here. They their careers have spanned a few years.
Cynthia Rothrock:
Exactly. You know, I mean, if you look at Liam Neeson, right. You know, Jason Statham, Arnold Schwarzenegger, Sylvester Stallone, you know, those guys, absolute heroes, you know, they're all older, you know, when they all make money. And it was funny, because I was like, “Why I wasn't in The Expendables?” You know, I was doing movies in the 80s and 90s. Where was the woman? Why I wasn’t in there? Because I should have been in there. Again, you know, who knows what happens, but I think things happen for a reason. And if it's meant to be, I still think they should put me in one because I was the woman doing all that during that error, you know? But I do think a lot of my friends, you know, my age like, Olivia Grüner, Don Wilson. You know, Michael Jai white, through in fantastic shape. They're healthy, we work out, you know, and I think that attributes to our martial art training, like I always say, it's a warrior spirit. You know, we always strive to do the best we can not saying we're always doing the best but you know, try to be as fit as we can, as healthy as we can. As positive as we can.
You know, failures, everybody has failures, you know, how do we deal with it, we deal with it, move on. My friend, Dr. Rob Goldman said, a speech once that stuck in my mind, he says, “I wake up and I have obstacles for breakfast”. So, you know, my advice to people is you have to do what makes you happy. And, you know, some people will say, “Oh, yeah, but you travel and it costs this”. And now it's like, no, like, just the other day, I was walking outside. In the end, when it rains, and it's just misty and you get that smell. And I was in heaven. I said, I love this, you know, so it's just the little things to you now, you just got to really, really find things that make you happy, and maybe people that are negative, or depressed or whatever are having found that they need to find that joy in their life, you know, to keep them positive and going.
Jeremy Lesniak:
I've said it before, I'll say it again. I have the best job in the world, getting to talk to martial artists, especially those whom I've known about and wanted to get to know better for a very long time. What's better than that? So, thank you, man, for coming on the show. Thanks for chatting with me. I look forward to seeing you again. For all of you listening, make sure you head on over to whistlekickmartialartsradio.com. Check out all the stuff that we've got going on over there like signing up for the newsletter. And if you've listened this far to the outro, guess what, we've got a little bit of special bonus material that came after we close the episode. Why didn't I let you know about that in the intro, because it's only for those of you who really, really care about the episodes and you're going to listen deep into this stuff. So yeah, don't forget, you've got lots of ways you can help us out, buying something, telling people about something, Patreon. It's all out there. Anything that you can do to help us grow is greatly appreciated. Oh, and don't forget, we've got a speed development program that you should probably check out at whistlekickprograms.com, it's going to make you faster, faster than you've ever imagined seriously. If you follow the protocol and there you will get crazy fast. Stick around. But until next time, this is all I have. So, train hard, smile and have a great day.